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What is an Ethnicity

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  Quote Gyadu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: What is an Ethnicity
    Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 18:34

What  comprises  an ethnicity.Is it language,culture,religion,genes,language....or some other factor.Is ethnicity a mixture of  factors comprising it or is it based on a single primary factor.Can a person be a member of more than one ethnicities?How is ethnicity different from race.How long does it take to form an ethnic identity.Which are the prominent ethnic groups in world today.Which factors lead to dissolution of an ethnic identity.

Please contribute your views,comments and questions.



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  Quote Gyadu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 20:48

Some pics......

 

 



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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2006 at 02:50
Originally posted by Gyadu

What  comprises  an ethnicity.Is it language,culture,religion,genes,language....or some other factor.

While you can put much weight in factors such as language, that are normally very importat, what is truly decissive is the percieved identity. Both how one percieves him/herself and how others do.

In the construction of this perception many factors can influence, language and ancestry particularly, but in the end it is a sociological concept.


Is ethnicity a mixture of  factors comprising it or is it based on a single primary factor.

For most cases is what ethnicity do your parents belong to. In case of doubt (no known parents, several ethnic origins) the question is what ethnicity does your community belong to.

Maternal language is decissive in most cases, but not always.


Can a person be a member of more than one ethnicities?

Sure, though most commonly one (or none) will be dominant. You can have mixed Basco-Italian ancestry but you can't live at the same time in Treviso and Bilbao, so, after all, you are more Basque or Italian depending on where you live and specially where you lived in your childhood.


How is ethnicity different from race.

They are different: "race" is a contested biological cathegory, it belongs to the physical appearence, not the subjective identity - though it may condition it where your "race" is large enough to form a separated community and where racism makes skin-deep differences more important than they actually are (for instance hampering inter-breeding, building up ghettos)


How long does it take to form an ethnic identity.

You mean to create a new nation (ethnicity) out of nothing?

Guess it's not so easy but a few generations may be enough, as long as the social ideology is strongly commited to the creation of this new identity.


Which are the prominent ethnic groups in world today.

I think people face the World in macro-identities of regional value, like "Westerner", "Muslim", "East Asian", etc. I'm not sure that such regional cathegories can be assimilated to ethnicities. In the classical sense, the World may have thousands and dozens of thousands ethnicities.


Which factors lead to dissolution of an ethnic identity.

This process is normally called genocide: it consists in assimilating a "loser" nation into a "major" one. It may be more or less intentional, more or less violent, more or less accepted by the losing nation... it depends.


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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2006 at 04:29

What comprises an ethnicity?

It depends on a society, usually a nation.  How it is defined in one country is not necessarily how it is defined in another.  For instance, in the US, "Hispanics" are one ethnicity and "Whites" are another, yet in Hispanic countries, Hispanics are either "White" or "mixed". 

Is it language,culture,religion,genes,language....or some other factor.Is ethnicity a mixture of  factors comprising it or is it based on a single primary factor.

It can be one factor, or many.  If you look at the former Yugoslavia, for instance, you may have more than one "ethnicity" speak the same language, yet have different religions.  More often then not, in other countries the single most important factor is simply language, since there is no physical difference between the majority and the minority.  In the US, language is not a factor, but physical appearance is. 

Can a person be a member of more than one ethnicities?

Depends on what the local society allows.  In the US there is been some effort to allow for "mixed" classifications, in order to accommodate the growing number of children of mixed marriages.

How is ethnicity different from race.

Depending on the society, there may be no difference.  It may be that how a certain society defines an "ethnicity", may coincide with a perceived notion of "race".

Which are the prominent ethnic groups in world today.

In order to gain an idea of "prominence", we need to list "ethnic" classifications, country by country.  The problem is that how an ethnicity is established in one country may be irrelevent in another country.  For instance if you are a member of a Hakka minority in China, this classification will have no meaning in the US where a Hakka will be classed simply as "Asian" and thus have no differentiation from the majority Han of China.  Again, how an ethnicity is defined in "white" in one country may be defined as "hispanic" in the US.

Which factors lead to dissolution of an ethnic identity.

As far as I know, the tendency in the US is to actually identify more ethnic groups.  Otherwise a form of "dissolution" is to create a category called "other race" in which offspring of mixed ethnicity which would otherwise have to use existing uncompromising categories can express their uniqueness.  With the increase in mixed marriages mixed offspring may opt for categories other than traditional categories. 

In absolutist regimes, "dissolution" may take the form of official denial of the existence any ethnic group.  China for instance had for a long time denied the existence of many ethnic groups, but lately has recognized some.

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  Quote Gyadu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2006 at 04:51
Thanx for your responses Maju & Sharrukin.I have learnt a lot.I wanted to delete my second "Pics" post but can't find the delete button.Has it been deleted?
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  Quote Gyadu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2006 at 04:53

Originally posted by Gyadu

Thanx for your responses Maju & Sharrukin.I have learnt a lot.I wanted to delete my second "Pics" post but can't find the delete button.Has it been deleted?

Strange!!!!! I can find the delete button in my last post though.Would any of the Moderators like  to send me a PM/Email & enlighten me regarding the inaccuracies/irregularities with the DELETE button?

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2006 at 05:49
Originally posted by Gyadu

Thanx for your responses Maju & Sharrukin.I have learnt a lot.I wanted to delete my second "Pics" post but can't find the delete button.Has it been deleted?


Now you can only delete your posts if it is the last one of the topic. You can still edit your previous posts.

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  Quote The Charioteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2006 at 14:11

Originally posted by Sharrukin

For instance if you are a member of a Hakka minority in China, this classification will have no meaning in the US where a Hakka will be classed simply as "Asian" and thus have no differentiation from the majority Han of China.

The Hakka is branch of Han-Chinese who migrated southwards during course of history.

http://www.mpichard.ca/hakka.htm

http://www.asiawind.com/hakka/

BTW: Maju is right about perceived identity.

A local woman called by others sister Huafrom Beijing(shes known for her enthusiastic efforts in preserving traditonal Beijing residence, the SiHeYuan) who's grandmother is a French. She looks more like European than Asian, but shes bothered at other-Chinese looked at her with odds and curiosity ever since her childhood, as she regards herself a Chinese.

Another Chinese professor from southern province who studies evironmental changes of yellow earth plateau(which supposed to be the cradle of Chinese civilization as its original settlement area of the Yellow emperor, leader of the HuaXia people) acknowledged that by racial features he belongs more to Polynesian than to HuaXia group, but stated that his heart is with the Yellow emperor.

Han-Chinese trace their ancestry via well-kept family books, or oral legends(its not exclusively to Han-Chinese, but for other ethnic people as well. for example, the Miao people kept their family records by oral recording which pass down from one generation to next. That they kept their identity so well, even they migrated southward long time ago, they still remember they were once belong to the DongYi,since their ancestor is ChiYou, once leader of DongYi).

For instance, while my family before my grandfather were for generations poor peasants, but it has been passed down to grandfather that my family were not originally lived in the rural area near HeBei province, and our family name we got now is not our original one.(its common for poor peasants who work for rich landlords adopting their names)

He told my older brother we orginally came from ShanDong province, had the surname Jiang, which JiangShang is our ancestor, whos guardian minister to the first king of Zhou dynasty, and founder of Qi kingdom during spring&autumn period, Qi kingdom under leadership of JiangXiaoBai(King Huan of Qi) became the first chief stateduringspring&autumn by correlative historical records, JiangShang is the descendant of legendary fire emperor.

Chinese is very serious about their ancestors.

For example, the Yan army(in alliance with states of Zhao,Han,Wei,Chu) in retaliation of earlier Qi assaults, in 284 B.C attacked Qi kingdom, and conquered more than 70 cities in a swift, only 2 cities remained ferociously resistant. The Yan army laid siege to the cities, the commander of Yan army YueYi(one of most famed general ofwarring states) who led the initial huge victory insisted that buying the heart of Qi people is more important than keep military pressure if Yan wants conquer the 2 final cities. But the king of Yan suspected YueYi's delay in his complete conquest of Qi land. Switched commanding post to arrogant general QiJie from YueYi. QiJie in order to drew the Qi army out of their fortresses, dug all Qi ancestral tombs in the surrounding rual areaThis barbarous act intolerantly enraged the Qi people. Under general TianDan(another most famed general of warring states)'s command, the Qi army actively went out of their fortresses and assaulted the Yan army with TianDan's secret weapon "fire ox army"(tie knives to the head of ox, and flammable materials at their tails, drove them into formation of Yan), Yan army was utterly defeated, commander QiJie was killed, Qi recovered all her lost territory.

Same story with "Eastern Jin" dynasty period, called "five barbarian incursion of central plain" . some of the "barbarians" occupied north&central China too dug Han-Chinese ancestral tombs. Famous Chinese calligrapher(praised as "saint of calligraphy")WangXiZhi upon hearing message of his ancestral tombs were dug, angrily condemned such barbarous act. WangXiZhi dismissed court's invitation to high offical status, but longed for retake of the ancestral land to the north as he took a governmental post set for gathering supplies for northern expeditions.

Meanwhile another famous general of this period, ZuTi, his ancestral tombs too were dug by the "barbarian". ZuTi is said to had ambitions of march northwards and vowed to retake lost lands. He would often consider the time "darkest period for the Chinese", that its said once ZuTi upon hearing calls of rooster in the midnight, he couldnt control his excitement to dance, others asked why hes so excited, ZuTi replied"the rooster is calling, dawn will be early, and this darkness would end!"(this story ever became a Chinese idiomdance upon hearing calls of rooster) While at crossing the Yangtze river on ships, ZuTi symbolicly stick the oar into river and made a swear, that he and his troops wont return to south of river til they have succeeded in retaking homeland back from the hands of the "barbarians". (which ever became another Chinese idiom stick the oar in the middle of river)

But weak Eastern Jin court was reluctant at it.

When the "HeXi corridor" fell to the Tubo kingdom(for nearly a century) during middle of Tang dynasty, 50,0000 Han-Chinese became Tubo slaves, they were forced to speak Tibetan,wear Tibetan cloth, adopt Tibetan cutoms, Han-cloth were forbidden to were. Even that, the Chinese never forgot who they are, as they would during important ancestral day prostrate themselves in Han-cloth to the East,as its where the Tang dynasty is.



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  Quote Gyadu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2006 at 18:10
Nice  Charioteer.I learnt a lot.Thanx for the post. So what would you say distinguishes the Hakka from the mainstream Han-Chinese people in the current context.

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  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2006 at 21:50
Basically there is no such thing as ethnicity in my long book of there are no such things. It is what we use to differenciate ourselves and put everybody in a catagory. It is human nature to try and define where we all belong to in a group.

--This has caused racism, wars, and inferiority in all our mind sets. Would everyone not agree that the perfect human would be a white caucasium with blonde hair and blue eyes?

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  Quote Gyadu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2006 at 21:55

Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

Basically there is no such thing as ethnicity in my long book of there are no such things. It is what we use to differenciate ourselves and put everybody in a catagory. It is human nature to try and define where we all belong to in a group.

--This has caused racism, wars, and inferiority in all our mind sets. Would everyone not agree that the perfect human would be a white caucasium with blonde hair and blue eyes?

Thanx for the input Ponce.Now this is taking this discussion to an intellectual plane {for which I might not be qualified}.Suppose you are that the perfect human which you described and your gender is masculine.

Would you like to describe your perfect mate in ethnic/racial/genetic terms?

PS:I hope this thread is not shifted to the intellectual section.It was just a random thought.

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  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Mar-2006 at 21:58
Well a fine latina girl with a european background family of course!

They dance so fine!
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  Quote The Charioteer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Mar-2006 at 05:19

The Hakka people were formed because of waves of Han-Chinese migrants from central plain migrated southwards due to wars and political instability during course of history, such as five barbarian incursion of central plainduring Western-Eastern Jin dynasty era, After revolt by AnLuShan during middle of Tang dynasty, and HuangChao's revolt in the late Tang era, then later with the Jurchen Jin's invasion of northern&central China.

The Han-Chinese that originally settled the area which encompass southern provinces of JiangXi(south),FuJian(west),Canton(north-east) became today's Hakka. The Hakka's unique language and customs is the result of fusion between that of central plain Han-Chinese culture and those of local ethnic peoples like ancient Yue,She,Yao.

To be a Hakka, either ones direct descendant of early Hakka ancestor(which often backed by well-kept family books) or speak Hakka dialect&share common Hakka cultures/customs. One would see some distinctness of Hakka from original Han-Chinese customs, for example, Hakka eating habits includes snakes, according to ancient Chinese texts, originally, eating snakes is a habit of the Yue people, not the Han.

Some famous Hakka personages
WenTianXiang:
 
prime minister of Southern Song dynasty who led resistance against the Mongols, was finally captured by KubilaiKhan, refusing to surrender despite Kubilai's repeated offer of high posts. Eventually Kubilai lost his patience and had Wen killed. His last poem became one of most famous for Chinese one's life whether in ancient or present will eventually come to an end, but the patriotic spirit is preserved so it will shine in history annuals of the Han people.Hes regarded as national hero.
YuanChongHuan:

military commander of Ming dynasty who led Ming victory over Manchu emperor Nurhachi. at the battle of NingYuanunder Yuan's leadership the Ming army for the first time since rise of Nurhachi claimed sounding victory over the Manchu, during which Nurhachi was severely wounded by Ming artillery, and died soon. Later as result of HuangTaiJi(Nurhachi's successor) delivery of false info to the Ming, suspicious&arbitrary Ming emperor Chongzhen fell into enemy's scheme, had Yuan put to death by most cruel method.Even the  citizens of Beijing wrongly judged Yuan, and hated him much. Later Manchu conquered China and caused  much death, only then did people realize how important Yuan was to the Ming dynasty and a tragedy of losing him. Hes regarded as national hero.
HongXiuQuan:

Founder of the heavenly kingdom during Qing dynasty, using Christianity he aimed at overthrow the Qing as they called the Qing evils,but was eventually suppressed by the Qing army.
SunYetSen:

founding father of Chinese republic, when he was child, upon hearing story of HongXiuQuan's heavenly kingdomfrom ex-soldier of Heavenly kingdom, claimed one day i will follow king Hong's step, to overthrow the Qing!(Sun is descended from SunQuan, whos king of Wu kingdom during three kingdoms, whom is descendant of Sunztu, author of art of war)
Lee Kuan Yew:

Founder and prime minister of Singapore.
Thaksin Shinawatraclan of Qiu)

Prime minister of Thailand
(photo: Thaksin paying visit to his ancestral place of MeiJiao village in Canton)

Thaksin mother miss Meijiao much in Thailand as she would oftenlook towardsnorth-east direction, which puzzled Thaksin and drew him a visit to their homeland.
(photo:villagers dont want to Thaksin to leave, and wish himcome back to home when you can)

The notion of rootis distinctively strong in Hakka culture, by the fact their ancestors were oftenforcedto leave original place and migrate.As Hakka saying goesmove the tree it will die, move the people they will live.The root of that tree is the central plain culture.

Today,Hakka live in more than ten provinces in mainland China, and in HongKong,Taiwan,and overseas countries. their total number is 80 millions.

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