Execution of Converts Under Islamic Law

For instance, in Pakistan, when a woman dennounces rape, she is automatically accused of adultery. This is a law that goes back to the times of Ul-Aq but that is still in effect. That means that when a woman dennounces a rapist, she is not just struggling against the many social prejudices that exist in such societies or even possible "vendettas" but she is struggling against the law: risking that, if she can't prove the rape, she will be condemned as adulterous and punished not with death but with long years of prision.

That is not true. Adultry and rape are two different crimes. For rape, it must be proved that

 A man penetrated a woman without her consent knowing or being reckless to the fact that consent was in fact, not present.

Sexual Offences Act.

What you are talking about is in the 1980's when Zia attempted to change the law of evidence, and this came up. It was never and is not a part of Pakistani law.

Originally posted by Maju Maybe in SA they are "soft" but elsewhere, like Nigeria or Afghanistan or... they aren't. And I couldn't care less about the umber wof witnesses (same as the Nigerian Sahria judges don't care either) but about the fact that the rights of people are under threat under such a law. For instance, in Pakistan, when a woman dennounces rape, she is automatically accused of adultery. This is a law that goes back to the times of Ul-Aq but that is still in effect. That means that when a woman dennounces a rapist, she is not just struggling against the many social prejudices that exist in such societies or even possible "vendettas" but she is struggling against the law: risking that, if she can't prove the rape, she will be condemned as adulterous and punished not with death but with long years of prision. How can this be defended? Some may say that this is "the Law of God". I say that it has no other name than terrorism against women!

well i think people who are not following the law should be punished. and people applying the law wrongly should be punished as well.

if what you are saying about Pakistan and Nigeria is true then these judges must be captured and punished for abusing the law.

women raped is and should not be accused of adultery..

yes sure if it wasnt rape case then its adultery, although proving a rape case my differ in islamic countries and the western ones.

as far as i know in the west a woman can get naked with a man and start kissing and touching and at the moment of the actual sex may accure , IF the woman said the magic word "No" and the man continued then its a "rape" case.

while i guess in our culture and courts , this story is not a rape case, since both the man and the woman knew that what they are doing( the nudity and the foreplay) will lead to sex.

Pakistani courts have always held that if a the man knew or even suspected that the women was not consenting anymore, then its rape.

Its always a hard crime to prove anywhere in the world. The man just has to say, "consesual" and the onus shifts.

In the case of Pakistan, that's somethig I just read the other day in the newspaper: that law is from the times of Zia Ul-Aq and hasn't been reverted. Women need to bring 4 or 5 witnesses to prove the rape (near impossible) and they risk prision for adultery (they don't stone them at least).
Again, wrong. Bad form to get you information from the newspaper. The Pakistani law on rape is based on the Pakistan Penal Code 1948, sec 320, as well as the Sexual Offences Acts 1956, 63, 99, and obviously relevent case law. Again, the requirement for rape is for it to be proved beyond reasonable doubt that a man had sexual intercouse with a woman, knowing or suspecting (Satnam Singh case), that she was not consenting.

The "law" you and Mira posted are not laws at all, they were based upon white paper, which the government of Zia published in 1979. That was never passed  into law. And even if it had been it would never have been applicable, since under the Pakistan legal system, a law passed by parliamnet can only be changed by Parliament.

Not at all: first because it is not killing and then because it can also be manslaughter, in many grades.

Murder is the "unlawful killing of another with malice aforethought." This is Cokes classic defination and is thus applicable in almost all common law countries including the US,UK, India, Pakistan, Australia, Malaysia etc, etc.

Manslaugter is of two types, volountry and involuntry. The former is what we would call a murder, but has been reduced to manslaughter due to some mitigating factor, such as provocation. The latter is when the death resulted from actions of the accused, who could have known or at least forseen that death might result from his actions.

If you intended to kill someone, and you cannot prove that it was in self defence, then it is murder.

(How do you use the quote function here)

This is a lwa to promote rape and violence against women. Nothing else.
If it were a "lwa" or ever a law then yeah sure, it would be. But since its not the law, well then thats that.

Sparten,

I have to agree with Maju on one thing.  Pakistan has a world-wide reputation for women right abuses; including rights granted by Islam.

What do you mean by asking the rapist whether he knew or suspected that his victim complied?  And what were you referring to by the "laws" I posted?

If you have an informed opinion to add, please share the sources as well.

Thank you for the link, I'm going through it right now.

Could you please tell me what you meant by the "laws" I posted "aren't laws"?

I have no idea what you're talking about, sorry.

In any case, I was commenting on your post regarding rape being a "hard crime to prove."