what’s going on in the Netherlands??

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Edited by warlord - 05-Jun-2008 at 08:04

I agree about the assimilation process, and it isn't racist. When you come to Europe, the least you can do is adapt and become part of the culture you have just moved into. It's NOT right to try to change the country's culture and values. That fact is why so many people do not like immigration in Europe. In Italy for example, there hasn't been much assimilation, and I'm happy the Italian government is taking decisive actions aginst immigrants. You come to Italy, you either become Italian, and be an asset to society, or go home. Home is the best place to practice your culture. Either home, or countries that are open to multiculturalism, like the UK, Canada, and USA. Those are the best places for immigrants who refuse to give up their culture.

This is bigger problem than anyone can expect. The muslim immigrants are now coming even to new EU countries and as well as in the old EU countries they are not going to assimilate with the local society, nor they are going to accept our european values.

As i come from Poland i was always tollerant toward muslim people and have never expected any trouble from them. For centuries we had muslim Tartar minority which didnt cause any problems, rendered good service in the armies of Commonwelath, were loyal, honest people who were avoididng conflicts, were assimilating, many of them were in reward accepted into ranks of nobelity.

But this what is now going in the western Europe is just unacceptable and cannot be tollerated. Non europeans who dont want to assimilate are only the guests, therefore must obey common rules, even if cant approve them.

They just cannot enslave their women in Europe and we cant tollerate their religious customs if they are against our traditions and law. If they dont want to accept our way of life, noone will try to stop them if they decide to go back home. Our society must defend itself against their agression.

Netherlands were always famous for freedom of speech. People there can critisice everything they want, including religions (including christianity) and it is dutch tradition.  If the muslims cant tolerate that someone is criticising islam and feel that those who do that must die, it means that there is no place for them in our countries and in our society.

I was always feeling that Turkey belongs to Europe and that should get its place in the EU. But now i have doubts. Maybe the religious and cultural abyss is to big.

I dont want to look like a fanatic or racist. I just belive that sheeps cant live together with wolves. We cant let them kill our artists when they find them guilty of violating their religious rights. There wouldnt be any problems if they didnt  migrate to Europe, but once they came here they must live in our way. We cant let them practice here their muslim life style.

Few months ago after French decided that muslim women cant wear their head gears i thought that it was stupid law against of all the rules of religious tolernace. Now after events in Netherlands i have completelly changed my mind. We cant let national and religious minorities to terrorise the rest of us. We even cant let them to terrorise their women (even if their women want to be terrorised). The choise must be simple, accept our values, integrate with us, live in peace with us or get out.

I dont want to offend any of our turkish members. I got in real life turkish friends and they are all far from being religious fanatics. They have their traditions and culture but in the same time they live in the european way. I like them and i respect them and their traditions and culture. But in the same time i know that in Turkey not all the people are like they. Not much time ago turkish girl was murdered in Istambul by her brothers what was earlier accepted by her whole family because family thought that their daughter brought them disgrace. I belive there is no place for such behaviour here in Europe.

Edited by Mosquito

It's quite understandable though. People will get pissed when they allow foreigners in and these completely ignores the set of laws and rules that is present in the country. It doesn't matter that the vast majority of the immigrants are law-abiding people who only want to live in peace with their neighbours, it's sufficient that just a fraction don't. An alien vocal minority which do stuff like this will always be met with much lesser tolerance than a native one; that's the way people work, sadly.
This hasn't changed my views on the Dutch as one of the most tolerant peoples. First off it's only a small minority who has torched mosques etc, and secondly, imagine if a similar thing would have occured in a country like Saudi Arabia or similar. Keep things in perspective.

As we often say here in the States,  "Ah! the joys of living in a multi-cultural society... "

All first-world nations are such societies...   The fact that the Dutch are the ones to whom this is happening is purely bad luck, they drew the short straw .

Nobody - and especially no country - is perfect.  We can't blame all Dutch for the actions of a few vandals and radicals - just as we can't blame all Muslims for the murder that precipitated the violence.  We can only hope that cooler heads will prevail.

As we often say here in the States,  "Ah! the joys of living in a multi-cultural society... "

Obviously, the actions of a handfull of Dutch people are represntative of all Dutch people, just like Osama is representative of all Muslims.

You know, its preciesly this mindset that causes this crap to happen.


Edited by Cywr

Around 5-6% IIRC.
Or roughly 900,000.
Of which about 350,000 are Turkish, 300,000 are Moroccan, and the remainder everyone else (pretty much everyone fron Bosniaks, to the odd Bahrainian, and a few Dutch converts).

Hmm see here for more detail, thats only by country of origin though.


Edited by Cywr

Are there active anti-muslim groups there?

Numerous small factions have split off from the LPF and Leefbaar Rotterdam (Pim Fortuyn's parties). Some of them are rightwing extremist, most notable of them is Nieuw Rechts (New Right). I think those parties are the main anti-muslim groups.

Do they have much popular support?

Not officially. Some of these parties participated in the parliamentary elections (in 2003) but none of them received a seat in parliament.

How strong is the anti-uslim and/or anti-immigrant sentiment?

The "There's nothing wrong with foreigners as long as their stay in their own countries" sentiment is quite strong I think, but most people don't dare to say it.

Geert Wilders, an MP who split off from the Conservative Liberal VVD and started an own faction recently polled 18 (out of 150) seats. He is clearly anti-muslim, though not in a racist way.

oh yes we do, we need a great cleansing of religions, all of them...but not yet, I am not yet ready to assume the mantle of my destiny.....