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General Islamic/Turkish victories over the Crusaders

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Jagatai Khan View Drop Down
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  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: General Islamic/Turkish victories over the Crusaders
    Posted: 24-Jan-2005 at 12:38

i think we need someone called Islamcrusader to fight Christcrusader 

Hey look,this is the brilliant idea!

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Seko View Drop Down
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2005 at 15:43

No fighting. Just respond as you feel. The name is funny though.

Hoscakal!



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  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2005 at 15:54

Originally posted by Turk

The crusades were idiotic and embarassingly executed...Inspired by an ideology where digging up graves and torturing dead bodies is "brilliant".

Well, I think that digging up graves and torturing corpses was not an ideology driven behaviour but rather sheer pragmaticism, the more disgusting it may seem at the light of our times.

As for the digging and torture itself, Im not actually for it, just intended to point out that he had a rather ingeneous idea. No disrespect for Jagatais ancestors, though...

Peace!

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  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Jan-2005 at 15:57

i think we need someone called Islamcrusader to fight Christcrusader 

Now that we're at it, what about a Buddhacrusader or Jewcrusader as well?

An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
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  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Jan-2005 at 14:21

Now that we're at it, what about a Buddhacrusader or Jewcrusader as well?

 

Peace!

 

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  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2005 at 16:11

Yes, salam alaikum

An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
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  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2005 at 06:32
ve alaikum es-selam

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  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2005 at 08:02



Edited by TheDiplomat
ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

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  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2005 at 08:50
Yes look;Frederick had set off from Regensburg.He had passed Constantinople,Aegean coasts and unfortunately Konya.
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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Feb-2005 at 09:04
Uhm Friedrich Barbarossa crossed from the Gallipoli peninsula not from Constantinople, the map is inaccurate.
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  Quote Jazz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2005 at 22:20
Originally posted by ihsan

Uhm Friedrich Barbarossa crossed from the Gallipoli peninsula not from Constantinople, the map is inaccurate.

Correct, the map is inaccurate.  Barbarossa had strained relations with the East Roman Empire, and did not in anyway want to enter the capital city.

Quite a contrast to the cordial relations that his predesessor, Conrad, had with Roman Emperor Manual.

Anyways, what did Barbarossa do with Konya after entering the city?  Just take supplies and leave?
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Apr-2005 at 12:07
Didn't he drown round about then?
Arrrgh!!"
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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2005 at 19:07

I think he sacked and looted the outer city though I might be wrong too (don't remember the details).

He was drowned in the Gks (Blue River).

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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Apr-2005 at 20:11

Originally posted by Cywr

Didn't he drown round about then?

 

 Kind of a pathetic death for such a great warrior, god he jumped into the river and drowned infront of his soldiers. Of course you will sink like a rock with all that iron armour. Even if he had survived, I hope he had spare armour, because medieval armour doesn't resist rust very much.

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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2005 at 13:48
Originally posted by Cywr

Didn't he drown round about then?


The exact circumstances of Frederik I Barbarossa's death have never fully been discovered, not surprisingly. Accidental drowning is only one version, the other popular explanation being that he suffered from some kind of stroke or similar, as he took a bath in the cold river.This is slighty more believable as he was by all accounts still alive, when they dragged him out of the river. He might have just died from exhaustion, he was almost seventy by then.
There are, of course, a number of conspiracy theories, like that he was murdered in a struggle over the ownership of letters by St. Paul ,and there is of course Umberto Eco's version of Barbarossa's death in "Baudolino".
In any case, German legend will have it, that he is not really dead, just sleeping inside a mountain, to arouse when Germany's danger is at its greatest and to come back to defeat Germany's enemies.
We could have done with him in the 2002 World Cup final.

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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2005 at 19:18
Originally posted by Turk

The crusades were idiotic and embarassingly executed...Inspired by an ideology where digging up graves and torturing dead bodies is "brilliant".

Hail the Pope.



If someone is head... he is dead... so its not really a torture of a body... u simply messing around with earthly material
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Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao
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  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2005 at 09:32
The army of Peter the Hermit was a rabble of pious pilgrims and their families, mostly of peasant stock, bent on a hopeless journey to the Holy Land. As always their number is grossly exaggerated in the first hand sources.

The cruelties of Richard I, and not Frederick I, weren't as much cruelty as ice cold pragmatism. The city of Acre, where the infamous massacre took place, had capitulated to the united armies of Richard I, Philip II of France and the Duke of Burgundy. As custom dictated, terms were given and agreed upon by both sides. The captured Saracen garrison of about 3000 men were to be exhanged for 1600 crusader prisoners held by Saladin, a piece of the True Cross lost earlier at Hattin, and 200000 bezants paid to both Richard and Philip. If the terms were complied with the Saracen prisoners would be set free, if not they would be enslaved.

However, even though Saladin had agreed to these terms, he didn't have enough time to gather all his 1600 prisoners or collect the total amount of bezants within the given amount of time. He asked for an extension, and the final deadline of 20th august was set. Yet it soon became clear to Saladin that he wouldn't be able to keep it, he called for a new meeting with Richard on the 15th to explain his difficulties with meeting his obligations. Richard appeared for this meeting on the designated spot, but Saladin didn't, and when the 20th of august had passed he was still waiting for a response.

Now Richard found himself in a tight spot. He was desperate to move on from Acre, for various reasons. First of all, the longer he stayed put the more time Saladin was given to prepare for his next move, which could make the recapture of Jerusalem more difficult than it already was. Second, and perhaps more important, the king of France had already returned homewards. Philip II was his greatest rival back in Europe, and Richard's lands in France would certainly be endangered with Philip there and himself absent. The thought that this was the very reason why Philip turned back so soon must have crossed Richard's mind.

The 3000 prisoners were the only obstacle in the way of further advancement. Richard certainly couldn't take them with him, that would endanger the whole campaign more than anything. Neither could he leave them in Acre, which would require him to station a huge garrison in the city to watch over them, severly weakening his army. And by no means could he stay put any longer.

Different figures are given, somewhere between 2000 and 3000 of the Saracen hostages were systematically executed. This way Richard solved several problems, but it left a permanent stain on his record.
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  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2005 at 12:36

this is one of greatest batlle against the crussader

secondCrusade

Defeat and Dispersal

Conrad's army did not provision itself well and was quickly short on water. On the 25th of October, 1147, the army was near Dorylaeum at a small river. The knights had dismounted, to water their horses, when the Turks attacked.

It was a slaughter. The Germans never had a chance to form themselves up for defense, much less for counter-attack. By nightfall, Conrad was fleeing back to Nicaea. He left behind him his entire camp and all its booty, plus nearly all of his army. Those who were not killed were sold by the Turks into slavery.

The German crusade was over. Conrad was still at Nicaea in early November when Louis and the French arrived. After a consultation, Conrad agreed to travel with the French, though he had only a few score knights left to him.

Because he was a king, Conrad continued to play a role in the secondCrusade, but the imperial army was annihilated and the Germans did not contribute significantly to what followed. Englishmen and Flemings would straggle in from Portugal, Germans would participate, but after the loss at Dorylaeum, this was now essentially a French crusade

"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
Khalid Bin Walid
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  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2005 at 12:44

Journey to Attalia

With the remnants of the Germans, the French travelled through Pergamum and Smyrna and Ephesus, all cities of renown in Christian history. Provisions were ample and they were well within Byzantine territory, and these days passed in a kind of holiday atmosphere. They reached Ephesus around Christmas time.

While here, Conrad fell ill and he and his household returned to Constantinople. Emperor Manuel personally nursed Conrad back to health and treated him well. When had recovered, Conrad proceeded to the Holy Land by ship. He had had enough of the overland route.

A few days after Conrad left, Louis and his people were flooded out by a storm, their tents and baggage and even some people washed away by a flooding stream. They decided now to go overland, to cut through the southwest corner of Turkey and so shorten the distance to Antioch. The French climbed the great mountains and came finally to Laodicaea at the beginning of January 1148, but this city was stripped of all supplies. They were now about to cross a range of mountains that stood between them and Attalia, with too few supplies and Turks all around them.

During the crossing, they saw the bodies of the German non-combatants who had taken this route a few weeks before. The Turks attacked any stragglers and the discipline of the army was beginning to crack. Late in January, during this crossing, the French suffered a severe blow. The leading segment of the army was to set a camp on a mesa, but its commander found more attractive a valley just beyond. On his own command, he led his contingent forward in the failing light and left the main body of the army dangerously exposed. Louis and the rest of the army arrived on the tableland and were immediately attacked by the Turks. The Franks were routed.

The fleeing soldiers fell into ambushes and were slaughtered. Only nightfall saved them. Louis himself had to hide in a tree, his bodyguard all around beneath him. The queen had been with the advance troops, for these were Poitevins and Aquitainians. This debacle brought her great embarassment, for it was one of her own Poitevins who had disobeyed orders. Geoffrey of Poitou, who was the culprit, was ordered home in disgrace.

In the morning, it was decided to have the Templars lead the march. All swore not to flee from battle and to follow the commands of the Grand Master. Under the guidance of the Templars, the army was kept under strict order and at last made its way out of the mountains.

"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
Khalid Bin Walid
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  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2005 at 13:02

failed of the Third Crusade

The Third Crusade failed in its main objective: Jerusalem remained in Muslim hands. That it was regarded as a failure can be seen in the actions of Europeans: Henry VI was soon planning a new Crusade set for 1196. Henry died on the very eve of his crusade and Germany fell into civil war, but the leadership was taken up almost immediately by the new pope, Innocent III.

The English and the French were too preoccupied with their struggle against one another to try again right away, so there was no new efforts from that quarter, either. Yet, the Third Crusade did succeed in a very important way: it preserved Outremer. The valiant defense of Tyre by Conrad of Montferrat could not have been kept without reinforcements from the West. And Guy's mad assault on Acre would never have succeeded without those same armies. Because of the Third Crusade, Outremer still clung to a narrow strip of cities along the coast of Lebanon and Palestine, and those cities could serve as the basis for future efforts to reclaim Jerusalem. Moreover, the victories had served as a significant counter-balance to Saladin's early victories, and he emerged from the Third Crusade not quite as invincible as he had at first appeared.

The Third Crusade also led to the acquisition of Cyprus by the Latins. This was a major addition to Outremer and one that outlasted the mainland. Its acquisition was important not only because it created a new crusader state, but also because it had been taken away from the Greeks. With Cyprus in Latin hands, the Byzantine Empire could no longer threaten Antioch from the sea.

The Third Crusade also gave birth to the Teutonic Knights. This military order was formed at Acre by survivors of the German Crusade. They were never as important in the Holy Land as either the Templars or the Hospitallers, but they always maintained a contingent and were there at the end in 1291. The Teutonic Knights played an extremely important role, however, in the conquest of the Baltic Slavs and the history of Poland, Livonia, and Lithuania.

Finally, in failing to regain Jerusalem, the Third Crusade marks the beginning of forty years of almost continuous crusading from Europe. None enjoyed very great success, and certainly none could claim even the modest victories on the field of battle that Richard had won.

"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
Khalid Bin Walid
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