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DukeC
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Topic: Do you have a soul? Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 01:04 |
Is there a part of each of us that is eternal, perhaps going through an endless cycle of births and deaths? Maybe we're just a small part of a much greater whole-analogous to a single cell in a complex organism- that we percieve only dimly.
What are your thoughts on the subject?
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dirtnap
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 01:38 |
Its appropriate your avatar was Jimi Hendrix because the only real eternal voice may end up being the radio waves we have sent throughout the vastness of space.
I believe we all add to the energy of the universe however good, bad, large or small. We each contribute.
Edited by dirtnap
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 04:46 |
Originally posted by dirtnap
I believe we all add to the energy of the universe however good, bad, large or small. We each contribute.
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Is there a philiosophical meaning that I missed there or are you taking
about E=mc^2 (matter being energy)? Cause if you are, then since we are
part of the universe we must be subject to the law of conservation of
energy throughout the universe. So a person cannot contribute to the
energy of the universe since any energy we use was already here.
I like your big bang theory picture. I read a brilliant description of the begining of the universe theory once:
In the beginning there was nothing. Then it exploded.
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dirtnap
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 12:37 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
So a person cannot contribute to the
energy of the universe since any energy we use was already here. |
One needs to merely reshape an existing energy to contribute. Would you not agree?
Perhaps music is as close to an eternal contribution as man has ever made. Music travels into the deep universe farther than anything else we have done, so far. This is explained by science.
When you ponder the soul and try to symbiotically compose it with the universe, it never seems satisfying. This is theology.
"From my rotting body, flowers shall grow and I am in them and that is eternity."
Thomas Moore
Edited by dirtnap
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DukeC
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 14:45 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
[QUOTE=dirtnap] I like your big bang theory picture. I read a brilliant description of the begining of the universe theory once:
In the beginning there was nothing. Then it exploded.
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Maju
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 21:25 |
Originally posted by DukeC
Is there a part of each of us that is eternal, perhaps going through an endless cycle of births and deaths? Maybe we're just a small part of a much greater whole-analogous to a single cell in a complex organism- that we percieve only dimly.
What are your thoughts on the subject?
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Soul is psyche and psyche is mind. There's no diference between them. I doubt it's eternal, except when I ponder the World as videogame... then I fear that it could be... with infinite reincarnations at hand, caused by boredom most likely. But apart of all that there's something that is eternal in us: existence. Existence is the essence of all, God included, we are eternal because existence is eternal. Some sort of existence exists at any time (and probably beyond time).
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Maju
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 21:34 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Originally posted by dirtnap
I believe we all add to the energy of the universe however good, bad, large or small. We each contribute.
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Is there a philiosophical meaning that I missed there or are you taking
about E=mc^2 (matter being energy)? Cause if you are, then since we are
part of the universe we must be subject to the law of conservation of
energy throughout the universe. So a person cannot contribute to the
energy of the universe since any energy we use was already here. |
Right. But we affect locally its shape - it's organization. Of course it's an ephimerous effect but it may be "eternal" compared with the brevity of our lifes.
I like your big bang theory picture. I read a brilliant description of the begining of the universe theory once:
In the beginning there was nothing. Then it exploded.
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Not exactly. It is: In the beginning it was everything concentrated in a very small region. Then it exploded. It is not clear how Time "was" then, as Time is also part of that everything that got concentrated, etc. It's all a byproduct of Gravity, I suspect: given X mass it comprises into a dot (super-atom) and then, there's a moment when heat (non-gravitational energy) beats gravity and... it does explode. I'm a great enthusiast of the Big Crunch theory: it makes the Universe work as a heart , as a self contained all that explodes and shrinks once and again and all the time at the same time because time goes in the package. Curious, isn't it? But not much relation with the soul as such.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Lmprs
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 22:10 |
Originally posted by Maju
But apart of all that there's something that is eternal in us: existence. |
What makes you so sure?
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Lmprs
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 22:12 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
In the beginning there was nothing. Then it exploded. |
No more meaningless than this:
In the beginning there was God, and he created everything for no reason.
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DukeC
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Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 22:20 |
Originally posted by Maju
Soul is psyche and psyche is mind. There's no diference between them.
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I think of the soul as the framework which the psyche is built on. It's present before we're born, and remains after we die.
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Halevi
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Posted: 19-Mar-2006 at 00:07 |
Originally posted by DukeC
Is there a part of each of us that is eternal, perhaps going through an endless cycle of births and deaths? |
No.
Unless you're talking merely about the atoms which currently compose
our bodies, including our brains. They tend not to break down, but
simply get redistributed. The macro-forms they comprise, of course,
change.
Originally posted by DukeC
Maybe we're just a small part of a much greater whole-analogous to a
single cell in a complex organism- that we percieve only dimly.
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Depends entriely on your definition of whole, and/or your scale of
analysis. I am a part of my family. The family is therefore 'greater'
than me, although i wouldn't call it a living, breathing, organism.
That totally depends on your definitions of 'family' and 'organism',
however ; ) You can always find a way to supernatural-ize the
true, using different definitions and vocabulary (since all words are
creations!).
I do not believe in any permament 'me', if that's what you're getting at.
It does seem that we're usually ignorant of the profound
interdependence of everything we observe, however. This is because
we've evolved to function on an individual, social-animal level of
analysis
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"Your country ain't your blood. Remember that." -Santino Corelone
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Maju
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Posted: 19-Mar-2006 at 01:47 |
Originally posted by barish
Originally posted by Maju
But apart of all that there's something that is eternal in us: existence. |
What makes you so sure? |
Not sure if you understood me. I meant that existence exists (existed and will exist) and we share that with the rest of the existence. I think that nothingness is just uncievable. Or rather it's vaguely concievable in a negative form only but never realizable. What doesn't exist just doesn't exist. Nothis is just that: nothing. Got it? In speculative though there could be nothing but that's not the case, so that ramification of our thought is wrong. You can't say there was nothing... there's no reason to think that way. There was something and there will always be something... even if that something is just a "thinner" and colder universe. Energy (or space-time for the case) isn't created nor destroyed, just transformed.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Maju
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Posted: 19-Mar-2006 at 01:54 |
Originally posted by DukeC
Originally posted by Maju
Soul is psyche and psyche is mind. There's no diference between them.
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I think of the soul as the framework which the psyche is built on. It's present before we're born, and remains after we die. |
Greeks, and therefore the Bible in it's earlier known form, have no distinctive word for soul and mind. They are just the same thing. Anima, Latin for soul is the root of animal and animate: meaning therefore the essence of action or life but not anything that deals with the psyche as such. In that sense, a machine would have anima as well. I think that what we normally understand for "soul" is a vague concept of "emotional psyche". I truly find dificult to understand the concept as it is used by people who believe in it. I think that, when I die, nobody will come to extract the CD with the memory and all my experiences, like those of the robot of Blade Runner will be lost forever... unless someone remembers a fraction of them... always from a diferent viewpoint... Maybe not... but why? Somebody has any evidence or well structured logic behind psychological trascendence? I see none.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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DukeC
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Posted: 19-Mar-2006 at 02:29 |
Originally posted by Maju
I think that what we normally understand for "soul" is a vague concept of "emotional psyche". I truly find dificult to understand the concept as it is used by people who believe in it. I think that, when I die, nobody will come to extract the CD with the memory and all my experiences, like those of the robot of Blade Runner will be lost forever... unless someone remembers a fraction of them... always from a diferent viewpoint...
Maybe not... but why? Somebody has any evidence or well structured logic behind psychological trascendence? I see none.
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When I talk about soul I'm talking about something at the emotional level not the cognitive. I really don't believe my memories will live on except, as you say, in the experience of another.
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Scytho-Sarmatian
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Posted: 19-Mar-2006 at 03:45 |
No soul, just a consciousness.
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Be brave and answer me.
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Paul
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Posted: 19-Mar-2006 at 12:18 |
Not any more, got a good price for it though....
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Maju
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Posted: 19-Mar-2006 at 20:32 |
You got a good price for my inexistent soul, you "the 98% evil who even scares Satan"... How much?
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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DukeC
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Posted: 20-Mar-2006 at 00:31 |
Originally posted by Paul
Not any more, got a good price for it though.... |
I hope you got more than guitar lessons out of the deal(see Crossroads).
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Aydin
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Posted: 21-Mar-2006 at 00:15 |
i think we are all part of a greater soul through the universe. we live as a part of a greater complex. everyone has a soul because at the most fundamental level of creation, when to objects of matter were born, noone can explaine what it was that breathed life into one, and not for example a rock. at what point did we become consious thus becoming 'living things'.
but its all speculation, noone can really say they know. we can just hope we are because thats the most optemistic scenario.
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Halevi
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Posted: 21-Mar-2006 at 04:41 |
Originally posted by Aydin
i think we are all part of a greater soul through the
universe. we live as a part of a greater complex. everyone has a soul
because at the most fundamental level of creation, when to objects of
matter were born, noone can explaine what it was that breathed life
into one, and not for example a rock. at what point did we become
consious thus becoming 'living things'. |
Is a bacteria or virus 'alive' or 'conscious', Aydin? How about an amoeba?
...but
its all speculation, noone can really say they know. we can just hope
we are because thats the most optemistic scenario. |
Why would you say that?
Edited by Halevi
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"Your country ain't your blood. Remember that." -Santino Corelone
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