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Paul
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Topic: The Tarascan Empire Posted: 24-Mar-2006 at 12:38 |
Good question,
I suppose the answer lies in the militaristic leanings early historians and archaeologists analised meso-american history with.
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Beneeza warrior
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Posted: 03-Apr-2006 at 20:46 |
Ometeoist monk is right, we need our nations to gain their freedom! I am a Beneeza or how most of the world calls us Zapotec and Mexico does not own my ancestral home land in east Oaxaca. I respect Mexicos culture and their awesome warriors but my heart is pure Zapotec and I want to see my nation be free. We are all "Red Nations" Mexico, Tarasco, Zapotecs, Mixtecs, Mayans, and quechua(Incas) we need to gain freedom for our nations and unite under a Red Nations Alliance and back eachother up economically so that we may have a bright prosperes future.
Red Nations rise up!
The Beneeza warrior
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ITZOCELOTL
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Posted: 06-Apr-2006 at 22:06 |
Cool your Zapotec? So does anybody know more about the Tarascans? like their art, music, architecture, food, Purepecha names, games, clothing dance, customs?
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"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees"
-Emiliano Zapata-
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hugoestr
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Posted: 07-Apr-2006 at 10:12 |
Originally posted by Beneeza warrior
Ometeoist monk is right, we need our nations to gain their freedom! I am a Beneeza or how most of the world calls us Zapotec and Mexico does not own my ancestral home land in east Oaxaca. I respect Mexicos culture and their awesome warriors but my heart is pure Zapotec and I want to see my nation be free. We are all "Red Nations" Mexico, Tarasco, Zapotecs, Mixtecs, Mayans, and quechua(Incas) we need to gain freedom for our nations and unite under a Red Nations Alliance and back eachother up economically so that we may have a bright prosperes future.
Red Nations rise up!
The Beneeza warrior |
Hi, Beneeza.
I understand your political stand, I even sympathize with it, but the history forums are not the place to make them. If you want to discuss this issue, you are welcome to write about it in the Current Affairs forum
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Jalisco Lancer
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Posted: 07-Apr-2006 at 16:50 |
Beneeza, your signature:
Red Nations rise up! recalls me to Ometeist Monk / Itecelotl.
If that's the case, keep in mind that posting by using multiple identities is reasson enough to ban a member since the beginning. Hopefully it's only a coincidence. This forum is to discuss topics related to mesoamerica, and precolonial africa. Please stick to the topic.
Edited by Jalisco Lancer
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ITZOCELOTL
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Posted: 10-Apr-2006 at 15:03 |
Oh, we cant talk about how problems started in Meso-America and how we can solve them so that we Ameridians can have a brighter future. But you Jalisco can contridict Ometeoist that our religion is nothing but lies and that a couple of mis-guided Mechistas made up thousands of years of Meso-american beliefs? Im sure you cant tell other people in this forum that their religion is false it can get you band Jalisco . We are just trying to find ways to hopefully gain independence for our nations through peaceful means hopefully. We arnt Nazis, or Conquistadors.
May the Ometeotl be with the Red Nations.
Edited by ITZOCELOTL
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"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees"
-Emiliano Zapata-
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ITZOCELOTL
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Posted: 10-Apr-2006 at 15:07 |
Anywayz, Can we get back to the Tarascan culture? I am still not sure if I am Tarascan or Mexica but I still dont know much about the Tarascans. Only the military that you guys discussed. Can we discuss their art, clothes, food, dance, music, customs, Purepecha(Tarascan) names?
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"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees"
-Emiliano Zapata-
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Posted: 10-Apr-2006 at 15:48 |
Originally posted by ITZOCELOTL
and that a couple of mis-guided Mechistas made up thousands of years of Meso-american beliefs? |
I think that pretty well says it. I have seen absolutely no evidence
backing up the claim that Aztecs or Purpecha or Zapotecs were
ometeotists. As I said before there was a small monotheist-like current
that worshipped Tloque Nahuaque, which was a manifestation of ometeotl,
which one could consider omteotist with some fantasy, but it was
absolutely not mainstream.
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ITZOCELOTL
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Posted: 12-Apr-2006 at 09:08 |
well it is today mixcoatl and the numbers of Ometeoist will keep rising in the years to come.
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"It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees"
-Emiliano Zapata-
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Posted: 25-Sep-2007 at 02:24 |
It worries me to say that the tarascans have been dissiminated. Tarascans/Purepechas are still around living both in the Mexico and the United States. Anyone interested in meeting Purepechas travel down to Michoacan, Mexico and visit the 7 purepecha pueblos in the Patzcuaro region. Many purepechas are university professors, lawyers, doctors, teachers and business folk. Yes, the Spanish might have destroyed the original power structure and for political regions the Purepecha King might have offered his kingdom as a point of conversion to Catholicism but it might have due to the destruction of the Aztec Kingdom. Wish you all the best.
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Yaomitl
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Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 18:07 |
Originally posted by ITZOCELOTL
Anywayz, Can we get back to the Tarascan culture? I am still not sure if I am Tarascan or Mexica but I still dont know much about the Tarascans. Only the military that you guys discussed. Can we discuss their art, clothes, food, dance, music, customs, Purepecha(Tarascan) names? |
Well, this may be not much help but I understand they used a similar calendar to that of central Mexico - the eighteen veintena months of twenty days each, plus five 'empty' days to the solar year, though they had no equivalent of the 260 day divinatory calendar. I've also heard the "seems to be" (note quote marks) related to Quechua (or bears more comparisons than to other Mexican tongues) language thing, and also that their architecture (particularly the shape of their doorways) bore certain potentially Andean traits. I think their major deity was Kurikaweri (anyone?) who fulfilled a similar role to Huitzilopochtli in central Mexico. I'm a bit clueless about Michoacan cultures, so this is an interesting thread. I now realise I once got all excited in a bar and asked "Ustedes es Tarascanos?" to a couple of Puepecha people I'd just met (I was kind of impressed). They didn't seem to take any offence though I expect they may have been giving this overenthused gringo their best, most-tolerant faces. Anyway - that's one gaff I know not to make again.
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ehecatzin
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Posted: 16-Oct-2007 at 21:09 |
interesting thread, after researching a lo about the Mexicas I've been very interested to the Purepechan Empire, as Im from Jalisco, and want to know more about the kingdoms that existed aroun here at the time. Actually Mexican arqueology has exageratted the importance of the cultures of central Mexico, adn pretty much forgot about western and northern Mexico, well it seems it changing now as more and more reearch is being made in Michoacan and Jalisco, "mesoamerica" was a much larger cultural area it seems.
Now, back to the Purepecha Empire, they where unique in mesoamerican terms, not only in language and religion, but also in administration of their kingdom. One of the most important being, that their army was an arm of the gobernment, and it was permanent, unlike the Mexicas who's army depended on temporal drafts on the calpullis and tributar states.
The Purepechans also put a lot of attention on assimilating their conquered peoples into the empire, trying to make them as purepechans as possible, unlike the Mexicas. This was achieved by sending settlers from central Michoacan into the recently conquered areas.
As for their use of metals, they were quite good at making jewelry, but making bronce was still expensive at the time, so its not likely they used bronze weaponsto the extent some people claim. As a matter of fact and its has been mentioned before in the thread, they did make extensibe use of archery and fortifications specially in the Mexica frontier. When the Mexicas invaded Michoacan the Purepechans were perfectly capable of containing them. As for the Purepechans making metal arroheads, it hasnt been proved yet, but its quite possible they did.
Mexican arquelogy is focusing a lot on the Maya area and western Mexico. Think about how little we knew of the Mayas only 20 years ago, Im sure we'll kno much more about the purepechans. ^^
Edited by ehecatzin - 16-Oct-2007 at 21:11
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Gabachachida
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Posted: 01-Nov-2007 at 04:06 |
[QUOTE=Jalisco Lancer] Dear All, time ago I opened a topic on this regards. Here's the link http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4774&PN= 1 By the way, tarasco is a bad word. It's an insult. They are called Purepechas. A correction needs to be made to this post. The language 'is' Purepecha. 'Tarasco' is a name given to the Purepecha by the Spaniards. 'Tarasco' means 'In Law' most common, "brother in law." When the Spaniards were chased out of the Aztec empire, they ran inwards to what is now called Michoacan, Purepecha land. The Purepecha protected their land from Aztec rule and the Aztec did not cross boundries when they attempted to finish off the Spaniards. Michoacan is humid and semi tropical, the Purepecha women often wondered around topless due to the heat. We all now what happens when half-naked women surround civilized men, this explains why the Spaniards named them "Tarascos". This also explains why the Purepecha women of today wear many layers of clothing and what is called "Rebosos". A Reboso is a robe type of cloth that wraps around their upper body and around the head, this they wear even in the summer. Today, to call a Purepecha 'Tarasco' is an insult. Regards http://distance.una.edu/ge102/_sp2002/0000010b.htm[/QUOTE]
I suggest that you read about them and dont take advice from people on a forum that may not know as much as they think. In a book i read call Conquest by Hugh Thomas he stated that the Purepecha called the Spaniards "Tarasques" because they gave them their women as a sign of welcoming them and it meant "brother in law" in Puerepecha, then the Spaniards mistakenly called them Tarascans from then on. I dont think its is an insult, nor do i think that has anything to do with wearing rebosos, since those are worn all over Mexico and other countries as well. People that use "Tarasco" or "Indio" as insults are just foolish and ignorant and should be ignored.
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Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 08:57 |
You are Mexican but you are of Purepecha Descent as am I. guys for the most part, tarascan and tarasco is an incorrect title to the Purepcha, the Spaniards made this distinction but in-fact the proper name is Purepecha , not Tarasco, and Purepecha not tarasacan.
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Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 09:01 |
Actually it is an Insult, if you proceed to call a Purepcha a tarasco , he would be angered and insulted and proceed to correct you. tarascan has become to be a word referring to slavery and insult and was once used a brother in law.
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Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 09:10 |
PAUL: quote:The Tarascans are a mysterious people. Linguistically the Tarascan language comes from the same group as Quechua the tongue of the Inca. They also appear to have had trade links with Andean people.
The Tarascans hadn't developed writing but were able to give the Spanish an oral migration history identifying Curzo in Peru as their origin. Telling how their ancestors wandered for many moons before reaching the mouth of a great river, the journey continued by sea, reputedly on the backs of turtles. The Spanish concluded that the river must have been the Orinoco. The Tarascans reported after their sea journey they landed at Veracruz on the Gulf of Mexico. Many Spanish chronicles believed this to be a poetic myth though.
yes, The Purepcha (not tarascan) did have writings that were mostly destroyed. The site in tzintzunzan has some samples of these wrtitings
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red clay
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Posted: 05-Jun-2008 at 17:09 |
Originally posted by ZaCapUnLA
PAUL: quote:The Tarascans are a mysterious people. Linguistically the Tarascan language comes from the same group as Quechua the tongue of the Inca. They also appear to have had trade links with Andean people.
The Tarascans hadn't developed writing but were able to give the Spanish an oral migration history identifying Curzo in Peru as their origin. Telling how their ancestors wandered for many moons before reaching the mouth of a great river, the journey continued by sea, reputedly on the backs of turtles. The Spanish concluded that the river must have been the Orinoco. The Tarascans reported after their sea journey they landed at Veracruz on the Gulf of Mexico. Many Spanish chronicles believed this to be a poetic myth though.
yes, The Purepcha (not tarascan) did have writings that were mostly destroyed. The site in tzintzunzan has some samples of these wrtitings |
The research I did a year or so ago indicated that the purepechan language was an isolate, no connection to any other.
Edited by red clay - 06-Jun-2008 at 02:16
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"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Posted: 06-Jun-2008 at 04:39 |
Originally posted by Beneeza warrior
Red Nations rise up!
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Of course. But without forgetting that mestizos are 6 times more numerous than pure red people, and that they also share your ancestors.
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sbstn_grc90
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Posted: 04-Sep-2008 at 01:56 |
The native name for Tarascan is P'Urhepecha. Tarascan is a spanish, or european name that the Spanish Conquistadors gave to the native P'Urhepecha. Some people say that the Nahuatl word for Tarascan is "Michhuàquê" (those who have fish).
In military from what i read, the P'Urhepecha had fierce warriors, they were able to fend off the famous Azteca, and retain some land the belonged to them as well. The were also stong enough to fend off the people of the north, or the desert people.
The P'Urhepecha Empire was the Second largest, and most influential amongst other native tribes, right next to the Aztec empire. The P'Urhepecha were a stong people and society. Their empire streched from the pacific to the borders of the present day state of mexico, Michoacan.
So far as religion i know of two patron gods: Curicaueri (god of Fire) and Xarantanga (goddess of the moon). I also red somewhere that the P'Urhepecha worshiped one god, and the gods of fire, moon, etc. were only manifestations of that one god, although i do not remember his name.
As far as you being mexican. "MEXICAN" is a nationality, not an ethnicity. Nationality is referring to the nation you were born in. As for Ethnicity, it refers to the people you descended from. BE VERY careful not to confuse them, a lot of people do. So now when you here people calling themselves mexican and they werent born in mexico, you can correct them, or make fun.
for example: My nationality is United American ( I was born in the USA), my ethnicity is native american, that being P'Urhepecha. My mother's nationality however is Mexican (meaning she was born in mexico), but her ethnicity is also native American, P'Urhepecha. Aswell as my grandparents, and great grandparents, so on and so on.
If you were born in mexico, then you are mexican, but im pretty sure that if your family line comes from the area where the P'Urhepecha thrived, then you are P'Urhepecha.
hope i answered few if not most of your questions.
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-Sebas
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sbstn_grc90
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Posted: 04-Sep-2008 at 02:25 |
SO NOT TRUE...lol... My family is a direct decedent of last monarchy of the P'Urhepecha Empire. Also Known as Erendira.
Princess Erendira did not fall in love with a spanish monk, that just a soap-opera tail. She did although fall in love with a spanish conquistador, she still gave birth to a full-blooded P'Urhepecha son, to carry on the blood line his name Curicaueri, after the god of fire and sun. She did however runway to the mountains around the 1530s after her father was executed. She got word that she was next, so to protect herself and child, she ran to present day city Zamora, where my 5x grandfather was born. There they hid for several years with different names, so of course the spanish wouldnt execute them. HOWEVER, Erendira was discovered by one of her workers, who desired money over honor. It is said that he needed the money for his sick wife (names i dont know). My Grangfather ran ferther into the mountains after his mother was murdered. He ran with few faithful, and honest friends/workers. There in the mountains he became founder of the sall town of San Angel, where he lived to his last years, while continuing the bloodline, down to me. now my family isnt small, so im not saying i would be next in line to the throne. I am pretty far away. my grandmother was the youngest of 10, with each having at least a family of 5 not including the many childern my great great great grandparents had.
so erendira did not kill herself, she was murdered...
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-Sebas
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