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The most succesful pretenders in Monarchies

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Ponce de Leon View Drop Down
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Lonce De Peon

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  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The most succesful pretenders in Monarchies
    Posted: 17-Mar-2006 at 09:33
I know a few famous pretenders who tried to get in line for a crown that they never desereved in the first place. Anyone else who knows of a succesful or famous pretender in their country's history please let me know because i am fascinated how ordinary people will get raised from a low to a very high status through lies!
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  Quote Dark Age Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2006 at 10:03
It's probably not exactly what you're looking for but Hatshepsut, fifth pharaoh of the 18th dynasty of Egypt, influenced her way to the crown through various forms of propaganda.  Although she was supposed to serve as regent until her nephew and stepson (and the true heir to the throne), Thutmose III, came of age, she crowned herself pharoah abound 1473 BCE and convinced the nobles and the people that she was the rightful divine leader.  However, she was born into nobility and accomplished some great things during her reign, so I'm not sure if she would qualify as a "pretender," but there it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatshepsut
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2006 at 11:06
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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2006 at 16:32

In Russia, there is the "False Dmitry". A pretender who tried to claim that he somehow was the youngest son of Ivan the Terrible, who had supposedly miraculously escaped an assassination attempt , after which everyone believed him dead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_Dmitriy_I

What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi

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  Quote Exarchus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2006 at 17:31

The strongest claimant to the French throne is Louis XX.





Henry VII is his main opponent and other claimant:



Charles Napoleon claims the title of Emperor





Let's not forget the Jacobite claimant. Francis IV




The last King of Scotland: Idi Amin




Edited by Exarchus
Vae victis!
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  Quote Frederick Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2006 at 17:33

In Portugal we have a thing called "Sebastianism", which was the general belief that King Sebastio (dissapeard in 1578 in the Battle of the Three Kings, in Morocco) would return to his throne and save Portugal from Spain's domain. A lot of pretenders showed up, and were dismissed as such, but one was rummored to present solid profs of being Sebastio. He was the only pretender ordered to be imprisioned by the Habsburgs.

I said "have" instead of "had", because that feeling is present to this day. The portuguese no longer wait for Sebastio, of course, but the idea of a savior. This has lead to the rise in power of some shady figures....



Edited by Frederick Roger
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  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2006 at 19:21
Why do you feel that Portugal is still within Spain's dominion?
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  Quote Frederick Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 06:27

Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

Why do you feel that Portugal is still within Spain's dominion?

Although we have a deep cultural diference that makes both nations completely diferent (although similar in Historical background), the fact is Portugal is slowly being swallowed by Spain's economy. There is not a day that passes when you don't hear about some new spanish multinational settling in Portugal, or worse, a spanish multinational buying portuguese companies.

Portugal's recurrent liberal governments have allowed this for the last 32 years, since the 74 revolution. While a big part of the population believe (and are probably right) that there is no way we can revert the process, a bigger part waits for a new "Sebastio", a new leader who is capable of taking more control of Industry and Commerce and install a set of proteccionist measures.

In the past, this lead to the rise of power of figures like the Marquis of Pombal in the 18th century, Prime-Minister Joo Franco, in 1906, whose drastic measures lead to the end of the monarchy, President Sidnio Pais, in 1916, who took power and ended up killed, and, most notabily, the dictator Salazar, who remained in power from 1926 to 1969.

The problem is, sometimes these figures that find an ideological support in the myth of Sebastianism, like the Marquis and Salazar, actually do a good work in the conduction of state affair, although always at the cost of liberty. But, like writer Robert Wilson once put it, "Portugal is one of those contries that needs a SOAB in power every 100 years to put things right." 

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  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 08:38
So maybe the next Sebastio should be someone who allows not only Spanish investment, but more investment from other countries. But the only way i can see this as possible is to lower the minium wage to those compared to like China and India
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 09:22
Hi,
Have you the film O quinto Imperio? The character of Sebasto is depicted
as completely mad. Do you really want a new self-delusional ruler?
Bye. Bom dia.
I am a free donkey!
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  Quote Frederick Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2006 at 16:17

Originally posted by Maharbbal

Hi,
Have you the film O quinto Imperio? The character of Sebasto is depicted
as completely mad. Do you really want a new self-delusional ruler?
Bye. Bom dia.

 And fairly depicted, I might add. Indeed Sebastio was a bit of a fanatic, who didn't take in consideration the fate of his own country when opposed with his own personal glory. That was a the result of severe brainwashing in his youth (he was born less than a year apart from his grandfather, the previous king's death). A series of religious and military tutors shaped his character to become a glory-seeker warrior. Of course that failed.

Anyway, the myth of Sebastianism refers not to Sebastio's character itself, but the image the people of the time had of him: a young, vigorous soldier-king cabable of restoring Portugal to its rightful place.

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  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Mar-2006 at 08:52

 

In 1858 count August Crouy-Chanel a French aristocrat claimed the throne of Hungary as an alleged late member of the Arpad dinasty. He demanded a plebiscite of the question of the throne: Francis Joseph or him.

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  Quote LeopoldPhilippe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jul-2015 at 20:24
Louis-Napoléon Bonaparte (1808-1873), the nephew of Napoleon I, was the President of the French Second Republic.                   
Louis-Napoléon became Emperor Napoleon III.    
Before he became the Emperor of the French, would he have been considered a pretender to the throne considering that he became Emperor?
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  Quote OwenD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Oct-2015 at 14:04
Uhmm, interesting thread.
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