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Posts: 1460 		  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ancient Macedonian language
    Posted: 09-Jul-2006 at 03:07
Originally posted by Arbr Z

How can Illyrian be classified as a script-language?As far as I know not more than 50 words are known today(so I guess we can't compare it with macedonian)...And even about the macedonian, 154 words are not enough to say that this is a script-language.

Arber I think that you don't read my posts.
I told to the Anton that the 154 words are the words that recorded from the ancient writers and not those that found in the inscriptions (200 more). The majority are part of the Greek syntaxis sentences. There are  350 Macedonian words and 6000 inscriptions.The inscriptions include and Greek words from the others Greek dialect(Ionian,Aiolian,Dorian and Attik).
In the 6000 inscriptions until now we don't have found any other language.
 
You can read the texts from the inscriptions from the Epigraphical database
 
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Posts: 1813 		  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2006 at 06:48
Originally posted by Arbλr Z

How can Illyrian be classified as a script-language?As far as I know not more than 50 words are known today(so I guess we can't compare it with macedonian)...And even about the macedonian, 154 words are not enough to say that this is a script-language.



Gee no man...Don't even say just 50 words are saved cause a bad tongue will deny the fact that Albanian is the only survivor of Illyrian.  There  is a big list of words saved...If there were only 50 then noone would  discuss about Albanians being Illyrians. You would be called Lydians since your language has 300 Etruscan loan words. This is not the case though.


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Posts: 1813 		  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2006 at 06:56
As I see I never got an answer about the Dorians, nor did I ever get a comment on Euripedes, the man who got invided by Archelaus  to entairtain the people of Macedon.


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Posts: 1813 		  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2006 at 07:21
Historians that do not comprehend the Ancient Greek language will probably never notice that Macedonians did use a polytonic system during the Hellenistic era. To make it clear for you, the polytonic system was used to illustrate the pronounciation and the breathing of your spoken language. If the Macedonian language was different than the rest of the Greek dialects, why didn't they have a distinct way to write their Greek texts? Why for example greek texts from "barbaric" countries of the Macedonian empire have accents that point to wrong pronounciation? A pronounciation a foreigner would have...


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Posts: 598 		  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2006 at 07:44
Originally posted by Flipper

Originally posted by Arbλr Z

How can Illyrian be classified as a script-language?As far as I know not more than 50 words are known today(so I guess we can't compare it with macedonian)...And even about the macedonian, 154 words are not enough to say that this is a script-language.



Gee no man...Don't even say just 50 words are saved cause a bad tongue will deny the fact that Albanian is the only survivor of Illyrian.  There  is a big list of words saved...If there were only 50 then noone would  discuss about Albanians being Illyrians. You would be called Lydians since your language has 300 Etruscan loan words. This is not the case though.
 
 
The fact that albanian inherited many words/grammatical structure from illyrian doesnt make illyrian a script language.I was referring to the 50-60 words that are reported to us from ancient sources (which are written). This is not enough to call it a script language.(and there is nothing to be afraid from bad-tongues, appart of their breath smellWink)
 
@akritas, I ve read your posts, but probably I didnt make myself clear (still have to master my english)
I read what you posted about the inscriptions, but the inscriptions are all dated maximally Vcent.BC. And as I posted before, a process of hellenization might have taken place. When I said that macedonian could be related to neighbour languages I thought of a more ancient time (before the VIcent.BC.)
 
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Posts: 1460 		  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2006 at 07:53

Arber if we had find any other  inscription  that is

-older than 5th cent
-diffrent that those that we have
 
...then we could talk for other language. Now we have those and any other opinion is just a speculation or arbitrary explanation.
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Posts: 1813 		  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2006 at 09:11
Originally posted by Arbλr Z

Originally posted by Flipper

Originally posted by Arbλr Z

How can Illyrian be classified as a script-language?As far as I know not more than 50 words are known today(so I guess we can't compare it with macedonian)...And even about the macedonian, 154 words are not enough to say that this is a script-language.



Gee no man...Don't even say just 50 words are saved cause a bad tongue will deny the fact that Albanian is the only survivor of Illyrian.  There  is a big list of words saved...If there were only 50 then noone would  discuss about Albanians being Illyrians. You would be called Lydians since your language has 300 Etruscan loan words. This is not the case though.
 
 
The fact that albanian inherited many words/grammatical structure from illyrian doesnt make illyrian a script language.I was referring to the 50-60 words that are reported to us from ancient sources (which are written). This is not enough to call it a script language.(and there is nothing to be afraid from bad-tongues, appart of their breath smellWink)
 
@akritas, I ve read your posts, but probably I didnt make myself clear (still have to master my english)
I read what you posted about the inscriptions, but the inscriptions are all dated maximally Vcent.BC. And as I posted before, a process of hellenization might have taken place. When I said that macedonian could be related to neighbour languages I thought of a more ancient time (before the VIcent.BC.)
 


Hey, I didn't mention anything about it being a script language. I said that 50-60 words are way too little. I know there are more words than that. I've found links before showing recemblance between Albanian and Illyrian and that was more that 50-60 words. According to a compatriot of yours, even though there're just few saved Illyrian inscriptions, they do provide us with a rich Illyrian vocabulary.

As for the bad tongues, don't ignore them...I've seen too much sh*t ("Illyrians were Slavs" for instance Confused) on the net and that's what some people will read and write on forums like this. Take a look around and you'll understand what I mean.


Edited by Flipper - 09-Jul-2006 at 09:13


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Posts: 1813 		  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2006 at 09:11
Originally posted by Arbλr Z

Originally posted by Flipper

Originally posted by Arbλr Z

How can Illyrian be classified as a script-language?As far as I know not more than 50 words are known today(so I guess we can't compare it with macedonian)...And even about the macedonian, 154 words are not enough to say that this is a script-language.



Gee no man...Don't even say just 50 words are saved cause a bad tongue will deny the fact that Albanian is the only survivor of Illyrian.  There  is a big list of words saved...If there were only 50 then noone would  discuss about Albanians being Illyrians. You would be called Lydians since your language has 300 Etruscan loan words. This is not the case though.
 
 
The fact that albanian inherited many words/grammatical structure from illyrian doesnt make illyrian a script language.I was referring to the 50-60 words that are reported to us from ancient sources (which are written). This is not enough to call it a script language.(and there is nothing to be afraid from bad-tongues, appart of their breath smellWink)
 
@akritas, I ve read your posts, but probably I didnt make myself clear (still have to master my english)
I read what you posted about the inscriptions, but the inscriptions are all dated maximally Vcent.BC. And as I posted before, a process of hellenization might have taken place. When I said that macedonian could be related to neighbour languages I thought of a more ancient time (before the VIcent.BC.)
 


Hey, I didn't mention anything about it being a script language. I said that 50-60 words are way too little. I know there are more words than that. I've found links before showing recemblance between Albanian and Illyrian and that was more that 50-60 words. According to a compatriot of yours, even though there're just few saved Illyrian inscriptions, they do provide us with a rich Illyrian vocabulary.

As for the bad tongues, don't ignore them...I've seen too much sh*t ("Illyrians were Slavs" for instance Confused) on the net and that's what some people will read and write on forums like this. Take a look around and you'll understand what I mean.


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Posts: 60 		  Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2006 at 13:39

This is short:

1.Ancient Macedonian was a diferent language to greek. Infact it was closer to the other neighbouring nations.
2.Ancient Macedonian had no written form, so you wont be finding any scripts written in Macedonian.
3.YES!!! the greek language was used in the Macedonian court but only for state matters, while Macedonian was used to adress the people. The usage in state matters does not prove anything because the russians used french in their court. And one thing greeks should be proud is that greek was the english of the ancient world but not the language of Macedonians.
 
Corect me if im wrong. Thank You.
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Posts: 1460 		  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2006 at 13:53
Now tell us and in long please, like
 
Originally posted by theMacedonian

1.Ancient Macedonian was a diferent language to greek. Infact it was closer to the other neighbouring nations.
Any evidence that Macedonians spoken diffrent language than the Greek.Any inscription? dont start Philotas case because we debated already.I want inscription,text or letter please.
Originally posted by theMacedonian

2.Ancient Macedonian had no written form, so you wont be finding any scripts written in Macedonian.
Why? not a sinle word? a letter? nothing from this invisible language.In the 6000 inscriptions all have Greek language
Originally posted by theMacedonian

3.YES!!! the greek language was used in the Macedonian court but only for state matters, while Macedonian was used to adress the people. The usage in state matters does not prove anything because the russians used french in their court. And one thing greeks should be proud is that greek was the english of the ancient world but not the language of Macedonians.
Why  the Macedonians use in theirs graves and tombs  Greek language and not your invsible language? is not acourt or state matters.


Edited by akritas - 24-Oct-2006 at 13:59
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Posts: 60 		  Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 10:36
U know there isnt any written evidence and u know i cant aswer that...

But what happens when u get a macedonia word and write it in greek?
ofcorse u add ur own suffixes in order for the word to be readable... ist this so?
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Posts: 2329 		  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 11:24
Originally posted by theMacedonian

But what happens when u get a macedonia word and write it in greek?
ofcorse u add ur own suffixes in order for the word to be readable... ist this so?
 
That would not have happened at the root level. Words found in Mecedonian tombs or inscriptions were not written in Greek, they were Greek (the vast majority of them), not only those of the nobility but also of the common people.
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Posts: 60 		  Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 11:46

If Ancient Macedonian was just, the greek languege... then why is this debate taking place...

I dont see how greeks mean to unify greek and macedonian, while expecting someone to contradict them?

Don't you think there is a reason that this debate is taking place... trust me i don't deny that we used the greek languege, but then again we used latin inscriptions when the romans came...

The same macedonian names "as u claim to be greek" are written on amfitheathers from the roman time IN LATTIN?

hell we now are using english terms to understand each other. Does this make me or you or anyone else more english?
i guess not... so inscriptions wore made by literate peoples and as u say... macedonians wore barbarians. "ilitarate"

Wink
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Posts: 60 		  Quote theMacedonian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 12:04

I demand an appology as such claims are offencive and not up to the level of this forum.

If u think that I as a HUMAN BEING do not deserve the librety of freedom and expresion of love towards my homeland... then u must not be a human or think of youself as a SELF proclaimed God.

Democracy does not exist in greece. I say this with great regret, because we all know that democracy was formed in the same ancestrotrory state. If you are not shore what i mean travell to Florina.

and enough this is not the topic and i enjoy the learning expiriance that i get from this forum... and i dont want to loose that privelige.
 
Sorry to whom this was ofencive.
 
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Good God, here we go again...Cry
 
Macedonian, please stick to the topic and do not mix ancient with modern times.
 
This issue is a tainted one and I'll close it the minute it derails (once again).
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Posts: 1813 		  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 12:36
Originally posted by theMacedonian

This is short:

1.Ancient Macedonian was a diferent language to greek. Infact it was closer to the other neighbouring nations.
2.Ancient Macedonian had no written form, so you wont be finding any scripts written in Macedonian.
3.YES!!! the greek language was used in the Macedonian court but only for state matters, while Macedonian was used to adress the people. The usage in state matters does not prove anything because the russians used french in their court. And one thing greeks should be proud is that greek was the english of the ancient world but not the language of Macedonians.
 
Corect me if im wrong. Thank You.


Considering Akritas answer could you please pick one Macedonian inscription from here: http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptions/gis?region=4

And make a translation?

It is Cornells and Ohio states universities archives...


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Posts: 1460 		  Quote akritas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 12:41
Originally posted by theMacedonian

Democracy does not exist in greece. I say this with great regret, because we all know that democracy was formed in the same ancestrotrory state. If you are not shore what i mean travell to Florina.
 
This is insult from my country. Angry
You came here and the only that you contribute are the  trolling and the nationalistic behaviour. I reported your quote to the mods.
 
Enouph is enouph
 
please mods don't lock the thread for one person
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Posts: 2888 		  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 12:51
Originally posted by Flipper

Originally posted by theMacedonian

This is short:

1.Ancient Macedonian was a diferent language to greek. Infact it was closer to the other neighbouring nations.
2.Ancient Macedonian had no written form, so you wont be finding any scripts written in Macedonian.
3.YES!!! the greek language was used in the Macedonian court but only for state matters, while Macedonian was used to adress the people. The usage in state matters does not prove anything because the russians used french in their court. And one thing greeks should be proud is that greek was the english of the ancient world but not the language of Macedonians.
 
Corect me if im wrong. Thank You.


Considering Akritas answer could you please pick one Macedonian inscription from here: http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptions/gis?region=4

And make a translation?

It is Cornells and Ohio states universities archives...
 
Such a cheap trick Flipper. Cry BTW look what theMacedonian wrote:
2.Ancient Macedonian had no written form, so you wont be finding any scripts written in Macedonian.
If such an inscription be founded it will be claimed as falsificate Wink
 
.
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Posts: 1813 		  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 13:05

 
Such a cheap trick Flipper. Cry BTW look what theMacedonian wrote:
2.Ancient Macedonian had no written form, so you wont be finding any scripts written in Macedonian.
If such an inscription be founded it will be claimed as falsificate Wink
 


True Anton...But sometimes you just get enough of all these...
Besides, you know very well Anton that the absence of inscriptions "poem" is something propagated by nationalists. It is nothing that is accepted by the worldwide historian community.


Edited by Flipper - 25-Oct-2006 at 13:07


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For No. 2 (thats is so far nothing has been found so far) thats what we know atleast... but away from that...

How about finding a greek enscription on Macedonian teritory before 4 Century AD... i would like to see a sugnificant nomber of inscriptions pre dating this period.

Also here is a word i stumbled upon... the word means "tree" in bowth languages. 

Aincient Macedonian - Macedonian of today
                Drval(os)* - Drvo
                     
*(os) added as a greek suffix, probably to be read properly...
There are cases of the "os" added to indian, illyrrian, egyptian and so on...
 
  
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