Ethnic Cleansing of Macedonia

If the Bulgarians was 1.1 millions !!!!! your census after the WW I will be increased from 5 to 6 mil. Why any Bulgarian  official census never say that ? Your census have Bulgarians of regions that's not consider as Macedonia from the Greeks such as West Thrace and Kossovo

And usually you forget the Macedonian census after the  treaty of Neuilly brought peace to the relations of Bulgaria with her adversaries. A convention between Greece and Bulgaria, known as the Neuilly Treaty, entering force on August 9, 1920 provided for the voluntary exchange of populations between Bulgaria and Greece in order to avoid mistreatment of the alien populations in the two countries.

IMRO, still active, objected to the implementation of the exchange of populations because this would eliminate the Bulgarian element in Greece and would eliminate Bulgaria's claim on Macedonia. A number of Slavs who had expressed their desire to migrate to Bulgaria thus chose not to.

During the wars, prior to 1920, close to 16,000 Greeks and 30,000 Bulgars fled to their respective homelands and after the Neuilly Treaty the corresponding numbers were 30,000 and 53,000 [the figures were taken from. Still, some Bulgars, following IMRO's suggestions remained in Greece. Some others who, due to intermarriage, were not sure of their allegiance to either country also did not leave. Their presence was not noticed due to the chaotic situation in Greece following the Greek defeat of 1922 by the Turks and the subsequent forced exchange of populations between Greece and Turkey. The only minority (since the Bulgars were supposed to go according to the Neuilly Treaty) left in Greece was a Moslem one in Thrace.

The situation in Southern Serbia was quite complicated since a large number of Bulgars were still residing there. These were to be named in the 1940s ``Macedonians'' by Tito in order to eliminate the Bulgarian influence on this territory of then Yugoslavia.

In September 1924 a Greco-Bulgarian agreement, to be known as the Kalfov-Politis Protocol, was concluded. This protocol provided for the treatment of Bulgars/Greeks who had not yet left their alien countries under the Neuilly Treaty. The then Greek government appeared to accept the view that the Bulgar-speaking Greeks and the Bulgar-speaking Bulgarians (who had not left) still living in Greece were Bulgarians. It was soon realized that this agreement was a mistake and the Bulgar-speaking Greeks protested the agreement. Serbia also protested this agreement because these people were recognized as Bulgarians and not Serbs. Subsequent protests by both Bulgaria and Serbia, for various reasons, convinced the then Greek government not to insist on calling these people Bulgarians. The League of Nations, on March 14, 1925 relieved Greece of any obligations under the Kalfov-Politis Protocol. Since then, Greece considered them Greeks (including the Bulgars still living in Greece at that time). The Metaxas' dictatorship, who tried to force the abandonment of the Bulgarian idiom by these people, alienated some of them. The situtation was to be resolved only after World War II when the remaining Bulgars and possibly some alienated Bulgar-speaking Greeks (various sources estimated their number upwards 60,000) finally left Greece.

That's why Greece NEVER INCLUDE IN ITS CENSUS KOSOVVO vilaeti because is not Macedonia. For the people that they don't know Kossovo Vilaety and its geography,  was the area of the today Kossovo and the North FYROM.

source:  Evangelos Kofos "Nationalism and Communism in Macedonia"

Edited by akritas

"If the Bulgarians was 1.1 millions !!!!! your census after the WW I will be increased from 5 to 6 mil. Why any Bulgarian  official census never say that ?"

Maybe because most of them were not with in bulgarian borders after 1919!

 

Originally posted by the Bulgarian Greeks say FYROMians are Greeks, Serbs say they are Serbs, but neither of them yearns their freedom and prosperity. You are ready to fight the Macedonians to annex FYROM, instead of fighting for them, because you very well know that they have nothing to do with you. The only Balcan nation willing to shed its blood for the FYROMians are the Bulgarians, because even after all the hardship and tragedies they are still are owr brothers and everyone trying to annex or partition Macedonia is going to come through us. Bulgaria is the only one of Macedonia's neighbours that supports hole heartedly its independance and souverenity.

I suggest you start calling the Republic of Macedonia by its conctitutional name, under which it is recognized by most major world countries such as Russia, USA, including Bulgaria.

I do not understand why you insist on using this acronym FYROM?

 

Originally posted by bg_turk Originally posted by the Bulgarian I suggest you start calling the Republic of Macedonia by its conctitutional name, under which it is recognized by most major world countries such as Russia, USA, including Bulgaria. I do not understand why you insist on using this acronym FYROM?

 Is this a serious question?

Originally posted by Subotai "If the Bulgarians was 1.1 millions !!!!! your census after the WW I will be increased from 5 to 6 mil. Why any Bulgarian  official census never say that ?" Maybe because most of them were not with in bulgarian borders after 1919!

or perhaps the number was unaccurate

As about my sources read better my posts

 

 

Originally posted by Spartakus Is this a serious question?

Actually the question was not directed at you, your hostility towards the RoM (Republic of Macedonia) is self-evident.

What I wanted to hear is why The Bulgarian choose to refer to the RoM by the greek acronym of "FYROM". In fact Bulgaria was among the first to recognize the Republic of Macedonia by its constitutional name.

Edited by bg_turk

bg_turk........do you have the kind to tell us where you find the colour photo that show supposing gathering sceletons after Greek ethnical cleansing in Macedonia ?

 

Originally posted by bg_turk Most of the evidence is summarised here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0870030329/sr=8-1/qid=11396 77743/ref=sr_1_1/002-7021016-2756038?%5Fencoding=UTF8 The chronology of the Kilkis massacres is well descibed, the letters of greek soldiers, and also some eye witness accounts. THe book is there for anybody who is interested to read, I neither have the time nor patience to argue with greek nationalists.

Your suggested book is a reprint of the  Carnegie Commison as one from Customers mention.

Originally posted by bg_turk Originally posted by the Bulgarian Greeks say FYROMians are Greeks, Serbs say they are Serbs, but neither of them yearns their freedom and prosperity. You are ready to fight the Macedonians to annex FYROM, instead of fighting for them, because you very well know that they have nothing to do with you. The only Balcan nation willing to shed its blood for the FYROMians are the Bulgarians, because even after all the hardship and tragedies they are still are owr brothers and everyone trying to annex or partition Macedonia is going to come through us. Bulgaria is the only one of Macedonia's neighbours that supports hole heartedly its independance and souverenity. I suggest you start calling the Republic of Macedonia by its conctitutional name, under which it is recognized by most major world countries such as Russia, USA, including Bulgaria. I do not understand why you insist on using this acronym FYROM?

I don't insist at all. It's just that if I say "Macedonia" the Greeks will start a dispute about it.

A warehouse with minarets and a dome. That was news. Actually that is a photo took from the historical mosque in the Greek city Nafplio. Sex movies are shown in the mosque since it has been  converted into a cinema.

If there is one thing I detest, thats when people continuously contradict
 their original statement, knowing that their propaganda is about to
be put where it belongs..

So now this 'warehouse' moved from Ksanthi to Nafplio..
From originally claiming it was in Ksanthi and by doing so implying that
a fully working mosque is being sacriledged, now you present a different
 version and suggest that the pic you present is from the OLD mosque in
 Nafplio that after our liberation was converted to a Parliament and now
 into a cinema..
OK and this proves what, disrespect to your religion ???
Why keep a mosque working in an area with a 0 population of muslims, what is
 the value in it. The building was sold and made use of (note that there
 are NO minarets.. unlike several churches in Turkey that are abandoned
 and turned into public toilets..

In your next post, you may whine about the minarets that were torn
 down from the Parthenon.. and tell us all about what disrespectfull
 barbarians we are for not leaving that disgrace standing over the
 Parthenon..

Here is what the building actually looks like and not what propagandists
 care to promote as seen in your pic..


But since respect of other religions is the point you probably attempted 
to make, please do read these..

ENJOY


"Half-naked models at a fashion show held in a Christian church in Istanbul   

In the middle of May 2005, the St Irini Church in Istanbul
 (situated near the St Sophia Church, which epitomises the
 Christian faith) was treated to a designer display by
 half-naked fashion models with the prior approval of the
 Turkish authorities, something which can only be
 described as the height of bad taste and vulgarity deeply
 offensive to the beliefs of millions of Europeans"

SOURCE
EU PARLIAMENT

"For example, in spring 2004 an exhibition was organised
 inside the church by some Asiatic artist or other with
 �works of art� made of lettuce(!), while at the same time
 a plastic �greenhouse� had been set up inside the church
 together with television monitors which were broadcasting
 Muslim religious services at high volume."

SOURCE
EU PARLIAMENT

I could continue with the illegal confiscation of Patriarchate lands, the
 closing of a summer camp for children of ages 8-15 for no obvious reason,
 the  closing of the School of Halki...etc.

Well, it contradicts to the article 38 of treaty of Lausanne and the  Treaty of Athens of 1913, so Greek justifications aren't better than  "cheap" here...

It contradicts NOTHING, I let it go before, but you're asking for it..
Where do you get off INTENTIONALLY MANIPULATING ORIGINAL
 TEXTS to promote your propaganda ???

The EXACT text of ARTICLE 38, that you are oh, so, fond of is :
READ IT THIS TIME:


 ARTICLE 38.

The Turkish Government undertakes to assure full and complete
 protection of life and liberty to all inhabitants of Turkey without
 distinction of birth, nationality, language, race or religion.

All inhabitants of Turkey shall be entitled to free exercise, whether in
 public or private, of any creed, religion or belief, the observance of which
 shall not be incompatible with public order and good morals.

Non-Moslem minorities will enjoy full freedom of movement and of
 emigration, subject to the measures applied, on the whole or on part of
 the territory, to all Turkish nationals, and which may be taken by the
 Turkish Government for national defence, or for the maintenance of
 public order.

found in several sources :
http://www.lib.byu.edu/
http://en.wikipedia.org/
http://www.hri.org/docs/lausanne/

So exactly how does the REAL article and not the distorted text you
 presented for obvious reasons, contradict anything I wrote ???

They did not commit any attrocities, but if you mean the  attrocitities of Greek soldiers, it is wartime and natural for th invading  soldiers being attack by the liberation forces.

Your propaganda sources obviously taught you a totally different version
 of history. Since I don't resort to sites like 'Tall Armenian Tale' for info, I'll
 just show you what my source taught me..
A couple of abstracts from G.Horton's 'THE BLIGHT OF ASIA'

"A native-born American reported that he had seen a man beaten to
 death with clubs by the Turks, "till there was not a whole bone left in his
 body." "

"American relief workers, standing on the deck of a ship, which left Smyrna
 soon after the Simpson, related that they saw a man throw himself into
 the sea and swim toward the vessel. A Turkish soldier raised his rifle,
 took aim and blew the man�s head off."

"a crowd of residents, men, women and children, had gathered on a
 lighter lying in the harbor but a short distance from the pier, with the
 hope that some Entente or American launch would tow them to a ship
 and save them. The Turks threw petroleum on them and burned them all
 to death. A confirmation of this dreadful story was furnished me by Miss
 Emily McCallam, directress of the Intercollegiate Institute of Smyrna. She
 arrived in that ill-fated city on the morning of September 14, 1922, after
 the fire set by the Turks had been raging all night, and saw a number of
 charred bodies floating in the harbor, which she was informed were the
 corpses of the people cremated on the lighter."

So much for ONLY killing soldiers..

And these are definately not more provocative than the  monuments of Athens and other cites of Pelepponese, Missolonghi etc.

You either have never seen these two monuments or simply avoided to
 mention them..
I personally have traveled to several countries and visited several
 monuments. NEVER and I do mean NEVER, have I ever seen anything
 that can be compared to the hatred promoted by these two monoments..
 Monuments that obviously weren't errected only in the memory of those
 lost but to also promote nationalism..

First monument, from Afyonkarahisar...



Note the good ol' Turk stepping on the body of the Hellinic villain..

Is this not a concientious attempt of dehumanizing, insulting and
defiling the 'former' enemy ???


Another monument, that of Ataturk at Zefertepe again at Afyonkarahisar..



Note that the reliefs around the statue represent Hellinic Officers begging for their lives.
Both memorials are visited year after year, cultivating and renewing
the hatred they harbour.

These memorials were erected not only to celebrate a victory (which one
 could understand) but also to dehumanize the 'enemy' and this is in fact
 state policy... which has lead to the continuous rise of nationalistic
 elements in the country..

Nice talking to ya'



Edited by Isokrates

Could you please resize your images before you post them. It makes reading the posts dificult!