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    Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 19:03
Oh, my Chinese friends.  What are you thinking and what do you wanna say or make us accept?
 
Uyghurs are decendents of Great Han People?  Uyghur language is just a dialect of great Chinese language that no other one can match?  Uyghur people fell down onto the insepertable sacred land of Xin Jiang which means "where Chinese people have been living after human beings were created"?
 
I have a Han Chinese classmate at university.  He is the only one that has ever visited "Xinjiang".  After coming back, when asked how his trip was, he said "Kao!  Xinjiang shi ji shang jiu shi wai guo, zhong guo ren tai wu chi le (Chinese Pin Yin, which means "f**k!  Xinjiang is in fact a foreign coutry.  Chinese people are too brazen.")"
 
He spoke out something that is the truth. 
 
I accepted the historical fact that Chinese has controlled the land of "Xinjiang" for some time (less than 150 years before 1759) no matter whether it was loose or strict.  But another fact is that local people there have been fighting against the invaders and it has never stopped.  That is, the people there have never accepted the invaders' control for even a day.  Of course, in history, some people were able to conquer some others by force.  In modern days, with modern idears, people should think in a calm and rational way.
 
Actually, Uyghur(including Kazakh and Kyrgiz, etc) people prefer to live peacefully with their neighbering peoples.  Most of the people wish to live in a peaceful, fair and harmonious world.
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Posts: 31 		  Quote Toluy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 04:51
Originally posted by sersan

Oh, my Chinese friends.  What are you thinking and what do you wanna say or make us accept?
 
Uyghurs are decendents of Great Han People?  Uyghur language is just a dialect of great Chinese language that no other one can match?  Uyghur people fell down onto the insepertable sacred land of Xin Jiang which means "where Chinese people have been living after human beings were created"?
 
Guy what do you mean to demonstrate these craps? Sarcasm? I can understand your mood because I also oppose these mad words though they exsits indeed in some people's mind, whose number perhaps is little, who knows?But what differences? One who is not insane would show opposition against those pathological ideas resolutely.
 
Originally posted by sersan

I have a Han Chinese classmate at university.  He is the only one that has ever visited "Xinjiang".  After coming back, when asked how his trip was, he said "Kao!  Xinjiang shi ji shang jiu shi wai guo, zhong guo ren tai wu chi le (Chinese Pin Yin, which means "f**k!  Xinjiang is in fact a foreign coutry.  Chinese people are too brazen.")"
 
He spoke out something that is the truth. 
 
To begin with, I have to correct some blunders concerning these Chinese sentences spelling in Chinese Pin Yin. 'Kao' in Mandarin approximately  means 'WOW, GEE, JESUS even BOO', whose concrete meaning must be understand in concrete, various conditions. However it is not a four letter word, a dirty word. To be frank, the word ' CAO' is a similar one which also express the amazement, disagreement, anger or rage but is very churlish comparitively to 'KAO'. So I believe your that classmate shouldn't be much indignant or furious describing suitably to this word, fXXk.
 
Originally posted by sersan

I accepted the historical fact that Chinese has controlled the land of "Xinjiang" for some time (less than 150 years before 1759) no matter whether it was loose or strict.  But another fact is that local people there have been fighting against the invaders and it has never stopped.  That is, the people there have never accepted the invaders' control for even a day.  Of course, in history, some people were able to conquer some others by force.  In modern days, with modern idears, people should think in a calm and rational way.
 
Yes, rational way is really important to dissidents both independent advocates and opponents. I think the violent movement cannot works in current China. The hiatus would be larger and hatred would be created if some radicals exert to violent activities presumptuously.
The students movement in Tiananmen square 1989, for example, is a good case for us. The main students' leaders are Chai Ling, Wang Dan and Wuerkaixi who is a Uigur deputy of students and had comparatively high reputation among students(not just Uigur students, who will care your ethnic if you are on behalf of the public). CCP was not likely susceptible to the dissidents who are beyond those cabals within each faction of CCP. Though there is much friction among these factions, they would oppress the outsiders together undoubtedly when they feel menace.
I admit that unfairness exists in China(which society dose not have it? The difference is more or less), nevertheless, the bigest unfairness is among the societal classes not ethnic groups, after all most kind people are not racist, are not fascist.
Furtuermore, people are eager for freedom and democracy, democratic movements however are not equivalent to independent movements. I personally believe that the real problem in China is not racism but are gerontocracy and autocracy yet I have also some misgivings about the problem that which one should be preferential between democracy and public education. Undountedly some rural people who didn't have fine education have some shortcomings including egoism, covetousness etc. I have to profess that most people no matter has such a great upbringing indeed have those defects above. That is the failure of education whose leading purpose is to enlighten people's virtue instead of their intelligence because the more intellectual people are the worse the world would be if thoes people have no virtue.
In sum the main contradiction, therefore, exists between just, honest people and vicious, crooked people not among those who are distinguished by their ethnicities. Uniting all of what could be united no matter their extraction, the devil no matter their extraction too will be defeated at last.
 
Originally posted by sersan

Actually, Uyghur(including Kazakh and Kyrgiz, etc) people prefer to live peacefully with their neighbering peoples.  Most of the people wish to live in a peaceful, fair and harmonious world.
Yes, most people in the world will agree with you, I believe.
 
Someone may think that all of my opinion above means crap. I admit that I have no idea the practical way to resolve the perplexed problem about autocracy of China. If someone could give some constructive ways I would be appreciated. By the way, my personal thought is that people could participate into CCP and become the mainstream of it, perhaps the more kind people CCP has, the fine CCP will be. Another way is that everyone committed a suicide in the world, the planet will be finer than it is now.
 
 
 
Would you please edit this post for me, moderate? I can't make it works well...


Edited by Seko - 20-Aug-2006 at 11:02
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Posts: 781 		  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 09:12
Originally posted by Toluy

Originally posted by sersan

Oh, my Chinese friends.  What are you thinking and what do you wanna say or make us accept?
 
Uyghurs are decendents of Great Han People?  Uyghur language is just a dialect of great Chinese language that no other one can match?  Uyghur people fell down onto the insepertable sacred land of Xin Jiang which means "where Chinese people have been living after human beings were created"?
 
Guy what do you mean to demonstrate these craps? Sarcasm? I can understand your mood because I also oppose these mad words though they exsits indeed in some people's mind, whose number perhaps is little, who knows?But what differences? One who is not insane would show opposition against those pathological ideas resolutely.
 
 
Absolutely, any normal humman being won't give a sh*t to those crappy ideas. So there is no need to raise these questions or to make counterargument.
 
 
Originally posted by sersan

I have a Han Chinese classmate at university.  He is the only one that has ever visited "Xinjiang".  After coming back, when asked how his trip was, he said "Kao!  Xinjiang shi ji shang jiu shi wai guo, zhong guo ren tai wu chi le (Chinese Pin Yin, which means "f**k!  Xinjiang is in fact a foreign coutry.  Chinese people are too brazen.")"
 
He spoke out something that is the truth. 
 
To begin with, I have to correct some blunders concerning these Chinese sentences spelling in Chinese Pin Yin. 'Kao' in Mandarin approximately  means 'WOW, GEE, JESUS even BOO', whose concrete meaning must be understand in concrete, various conditions. However it is not a four letter word, a dirty word. To be frank, the word ' CAO' is a similar one which also express the amazement, disagreement, anger or rage but is very churlish comparitively to 'KAO'. So I believe your that classmate shouldn't be much indignant or furious describing suitably to this word, fXXk.
 
 
As far as I know, my chinese classmates used this word mainly in the meaning of the four word. I asked them what was the difference between "Kao" and "Cao", they said the two were practically same in the meaning.   But later I realized "Kao" is used more widely meaning also some surprise. Originally I think it has relation with the actual meaning of the action "Gao".  So in sersan's translation, it can be surely the meaning of the four word.
 
 
 
In sum the main contradiction, therefore, exists between just, honest people and vicious, crooked people not among those who are distinguished by their ethnicities. Uniting all of what could be united no matter their extraction, the devil no matter their extraction too will be defeated at last.
 
You are either too idealistic or you don't know the current situtation in Uyghur region. Let me give you some example:
 
in the newly built petroleum refinary factories in Tarim or in Turpan-Qumul,  you almost can't see  any Uyghur faces, while there are so many Uyghur students graduated from the petroleum universities in the main land of China.
 
There are so called "Zhao Pin Hui", job oppotunity meeting for the graduates, and it is not uncommon to hear the companies or the governmental orginizations to directly tell you that they don't hire Uyghurs. Dont' tell me that Uyghurs are not qualified, Uyghurs are better in practical work than Hans.  They are bilingual, while Hans are mainly mono lingual, which is not appopriate to an autonomous region.
 
You know in China, political party is controlling the government, that is to say that the party secretary (Shu Ji) is the most powerful and dicision maker. Well, in Uyghur region almost all of the Shu Jis are Han Chinese, why? even if there are enough Uyghur party members.  So don't you think this is an ethnic discrimination?
 
 
Originally posted by Toluy

Originally posted by sersan

Actually, Uyghur(including Kazakh and Kyrgiz, etc) people prefer to live peacefully with their neighbering peoples.  Most of the people wish to live in a peaceful, fair and harmonious world.
Yes, most people in the world will agree with you, I believe.
 
Someone may think that all of my opinion above means crap. I admit that I have no idea the practical way to resolve the perplexed problem about autocracy of China. If someone could give some constructive ways I would be appreciated. By the way, my personal thought is that people could participate into CCP and become the mainstream of it, perhaps the more kind people CCP has, the fine CCP will be. Another way is that everyone committed a suicide in the world, the planet will be finer than it is now. 
 
Again, you are showing your naiveness. This is China, and CCP. Any good man becomes rotten very quickly. This is your culture, which has been rooted in your society for thousands of years. Many many Han Chinese admit  this.
 
BTW, Hans are the worst rulers in the world, may be because they haven't ruled other people than Hans before. 


Edited by barbar - 20-Aug-2006 at 09:20
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The Han CHinese consists of many historical non-Chinese groups assimilated into the "Han Chinese" identity. According to genetic studies, Southern Chinese like me have more in common with non-CHinese people like Thais and Vietnamese genetically than with Northern Chinese. Thats because Southern China was home to many non-Chinese ethnic groups considered barbarians by the northern Chinese and eventually assimilated.

Since Modern Communist China's mindset is still imperialist despite its outward Communist character, I assume, it is trying to do the same thing to the indigenous Turkic population in Xinjiang by assimilating your kinsmen.
 
As a Chinese, I acknowledge that Xinjiang is Turkic in history, language and culture. But as something of a political realist. China will never cede any territory for independence now that it has found confidence in its military and political strength. I'm not saying I support China's policies. Just stating it analytically so don't take this as a nationalist mantra and any offense because none is intended.
 
Bottom Line: They will try to make Turks into "Han Chinese". But I'm sure the proud Turks of Xinjiang will fight tooth and nail to prevent this cultural imperialism, and yet, I'm not sure of their political future.
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Posts: 31 		  Quote Toluy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 11:09

Dear barbar ,
I must emphasize that my English proficiency is not so much that I am not able to discern the subtle atmosphere floating some words constantly. However I think your attitude is not so kind that you perhaps want to brawl with me instead of discussion. If it's true, I hope that you'd better not to reply this post after you read it just in case unnecessarily nonsense will waste our times. If it is not true, I apologize here for my imprudence.

Firstly, I didn't argue with sersan about those crappy ideas. My only purppose is to tell him or her there is a little people who think like that and most people are the same as other countries' in China. There is indeed no need to argue in this topic and of course I didn't make any counterargument.
 
Secondly, it's about the discrepancy between 'CAO' and 'KAO'. Do not play literal games with me. Yes I have proclaimed that the meaning of these two words is similar with each other, However, I also impart you that the extent of these two words is totally different. Your Chinese classmate is not wrong, these two words are neither elegant usage when people converse, yet you may ask your Chinese classmate that whether he or she dare to say the former to a stranger. If people use the latter when they talk to a stranger, the stranger at most believe those people are boorish, but if people use the former to a stranger, it absolutely means they impose great insult on that stranger! Therefore, when you and your classmate are conversant with one another, the latter means nothing insult to the receiver. Perhaps you are very closed or not, yet whatever your relation is, the latter dose not mean FUXK in stead of the former, whose literal meaning is just as f'''k properly.
 
thirdly, I admit that I am an idealist, however, I have to call your example into question. I would not to argue whether there is certain discrimination in XinJiang province. Even if it has, dose it exist among all people or, as you want, all Han people? Dosen't it exist among any Uigurs? Do not argue with me about which one was the previous dominant factors to another. It is a question as well as which one priorly exists between chicks and eggs, which may derive from thousands of years ago. The momentous research about discrimination is how to disabuse it. I think my PVP('good' people vs 'bad' people) tactic is not totally useless at least it will dawn upon people what is the real objective they should oppose. As for how to oppose it, it is the next question we will discuss.
 
Fourthly, I think the best and only way to iradicate the discrimination can be outlined in one sentence I've demonstrated in the last post that uniting all of what could be united, the devil would be defeated at last! No matter you believe it or not, it is true and that's why CCP could defeat the KMT and rule the whole of China including XinJiang. You know that not all Han people discriminate Uigurs and vice versa. So why not uniting with those who could be united instead of drawing the line with them and making them become the 'enemy'? What is more, let alone about the radical independence movement which intends to evict all the non-turks(right?) or deport them by violence despite the objective existence of them. Was it also a discrimination?
 
The last but not the least,I basically completely disapprove with your last paragraph, however, I would not talk about it before you withdraw your racialistic words. Would you always not grudge your insult to other people in order to be comfortable? Would you please treat people in virtual space as well as you do in your life? I believe you have right to oppose to me, nevertheless, I don't think you have any right to smirch any other what may be a person, a nation, a race and a species.
 


Edited by Toluy - 20-Aug-2006 at 11:24
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Dear barbar, it's time to go to bedPinch in my time zone, I hope you will be fine and reply this post as a gentleman instead of a XXXblablabla...Good night.Sleepy
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Posts: 781 		  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 12:02
Originally posted by Nestorian

The Han CHinese consists of many historical non-Chinese groups assimilated into the "Han Chinese" identity. According to genetic studies, Southern Chinese like me have more in common with non-CHinese people like Thais and Vietnamese genetically than with Northern Chinese. Thats because Southern China was home to many non-Chinese ethnic groups considered barbarians by the northern Chinese and eventually assimilated.

Since Modern Communist China's mindset is still imperialist despite its outward Communist character, I assume, it is trying to do the same thing to the indigenous Turkic population in Xinjiang by assimilating your kinsmen.
 
As a Chinese, I acknowledge that Xinjiang is Turkic in history, language and culture. But as something of a political realist. China will never cede any territory for independence now that it has found confidence in its military and political strength. I'm not saying I support China's policies. Just stating it analytically so don't take this as a nationalist mantra and any offense because none is intended.
 
Bottom Line: They will try to make Turks into "Han Chinese". But I'm sure the proud Turks of Xinjiang will fight tooth and nail to prevent this cultural imperialism, and yet, I'm not sure of their political future.
 
I'm surprised to see such an open minded Han Chinese, which is very rare.
 
Well, everything is possible, we shouldn't forget about the Soviet union, which once was a superpower of the world.
 
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Posts: 781 		  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2006 at 03:35
Originally posted by Toluy

Dear barbar ,
I must emphasize that my English proficiency is not so much that I am not able to discern the subtle atmosphere floating some words constantly. However I think your attitude is not so kind that you perhaps want to brawl with me instead of discussion. If it's true, I hope that you'd better not to reply this post after you read it just in case unnecessarily nonsense will waste our times. If it is not true, I apologize here for my imprudence.

 
Indeed, you need to improve your English understanding ability, and you should make apology for your trying to find subtle atmosphere within the words. 
 
Firstly, I didn't argue with sersan about those crappy ideas. My only purppose is to tell him or her there is a little people who think like that and most people are the same as other countries' in China. There is indeed no need to argue in this topic and of course I didn't make any counterargument.
 
 
I said "absolutely",  to agree with you for not to argue on those silly statements, again, you need to read my post carefully.
 
 
 
 
Secondly, it's about the discrepancy between 'CAO' and 'KAO'. Do not play literal games with me. Yes I have proclaimed that the meaning of these two words is similar with each other, However, I also impart you that the extent of these two words is totally different. Your Chinese classmate is not wrong, these two words are neither elegant usage when people converse, yet you may ask your Chinese classmate that whether he or she dare to say the former to a stranger. If people use the latter when they talk to a stranger, the stranger at most believe those people are boorish, but if people use the former to a stranger, it absolutely means they impose great insult on that stranger! Therefore, when you and your classmate are conversant with one another, the latter means nothing insult to the receiver. Perhaps you are very closed or not, yet whatever your relation is, the latter dose not mean FUXK in stead of the former, whose literal meaning is just as f'''k properly.
 
 
I don't see any reason to spend so much time and energy to discuss over this stupid word, which even Han Chinese girls never hesitate to use in public. You began with correcting the translation, and I just couldn't understand making a big deal about it, and made my comment. Now go on with your reason, I'm not interested.  
 
 
 
 
thirdly, I admit that I am an idealist, however, I have to call your example into question. I would not to argue whether there is certain discrimination in XinJiang province. Even if it has, dose it exist among all people or, as you want, all Han people? Dosen't it exist among any Uigurs? Do not argue with me about which one was the previous dominant factors to another. It is a question as well as which one priorly exists between chicks and eggs, which may derive from thousands of years ago. The momentous research about discrimination is how to disabuse it. I think my PVP('good' people vs 'bad' people) tactic is not totally useless at least it will dawn upon people what is the real objective they should oppose. As for how to oppose it, it is the next question we will discuss.
 
 
Well there are always exceptions in the world. But what I have shown are the general cases.  You have never lived here. Believe me,  you can feel the discrimination, which exists everywhere here. Anytype of system can't make a solution, without limiting the huge number of migrants, with the limited number of resources, the local people are being forced to make sacrifice. This is mainly ethnic clash. I'm not going to go in detail about cultural aspects.
  
 
Fourthly, I think the best and only way to iradicate the discrimination can be outlined in one sentence I've demonstrated in the last post that uniting all of what could be united, the devil would be defeated at last! No matter you believe it or not, it is true and that's why CCP could defeat the KMT and rule the whole of China including XinJiang. You know that not all Han people discriminate Uigurs and vice versa. So why not uniting with those who could be united instead of drawing the line with them and making them become the 'enemy'? What is more, let alone about the radical independence movement which intends to evict all the non-turks(right?) or deport them by violence despite the objective existence of them. Was it also a discrimination?
 
 
Many of the people don't think all Hans are enemies. However, I'm not sure if you are aware of the nationalistic views of current Han Chinese. Xinhua web did a survey about the views of the Young Chinese, and persentage of the people who approve "making benefit for the sate by every means" is more than ninety persent. You can surf some Chinese forums, and you will be astonished by the views of the nationalistic young people. Even most liberals in abroad (maybe you are one of them) mainly don't approve self governing of the ethnic people. 
 
As for the the radical movement, it might be like the Great SunZhongShan's slogan to evict the non-Hans from Chinese land. Some time people need slogan, but they might not be implemented in reality. I have never heard of any saying that this land only belongs to Turks. Mongols, Daghurs, Huis, Xibos have been living here. Turkic people had no bad feelings towards them.
 
   
 
The last but not the least,I basically completely disapprove with your last paragraph, however, I would not talk about it before you withdraw your racialistic words. Would you always not grudge your insult to other people in order to be comfortable? Would you please treat people in virtual space as well as you do in your life? I believe you have right to oppose to me, nevertheless, I don't think you have any right to smirch any other what may be a person, a nation, a race and a species.
 
 
I talked about historical fact. I'm not talking about race, as Han chinese are not a race, so you can't lable my comment as racialistic.
 


Edited by barbar - 21-Aug-2006 at 03:44
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Originally posted by Toluy

Dear barbar, it's time to go to bedPinch in my time zone, I hope you will be fine and reply this post as a gentleman instead of a XXXblablabla...Good night.Sleepy

 
Well, let's see who is saying blabla. Isn't it irony someone who is unable to give any proofs for his statement except some idealistic ideas, hintly accusing  for saying blabla someone who has shown real facts.
 
Now, I've to work, I'll have time to comment your future posts (if they are really worthy) only in the weekend.
 
 
 
 
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Indeed, you need to improve your English understanding ability, and you should make apology for your trying to find subtle atmosphere within the words. 

Actually the point I refer is about these:
Again, you are showing your naiveness. This is China, and CCP. Any good man becomes rotten very quickly. This is your culture, which has been rooted in your society for thousands of years. Many many Han Chinese admit  this.
BTW, Hans are the worst rulers in the world, may be because they haven't ruled other people than Hans before. 
I have to indicate as some complementary advice for these points of view that corruption is not typical of China and is mot my or our culture. Corruption is the tumor of all human societies, which is deterred effectively in western countries not too long time to nowadays but not iradicated yet is still a serious problem in China but is unlikely existing eternal. Even if this tumor has been rampant thousands(at most over two) of years but it will be contralled for thousands of hundreds of years to eternity, after all, the journey humanbeings has experienced is inconsiderable comparing to the one humanbeings will experience from then on. Let alone about the rooted assertion, even if it is so it could be pulled out one fine day.
BTW, Hans is not the best rulers in the world but is also not the worst. There is no evidence to prove which one is the best or worst necessarily therefore I don't know this viewpoint has any constructive significance except begrudging.
 
I said "absolutely",  to agree with you for not to argue on those silly statements, again, you need to read my post carefully.
All right, let's forget it.
 
I don't see any reason to spend so much time and energy to discuss over this stupid word, which even Han Chinese girls never hesitate to use in public. You began with correcting the translation, and I just couldn't understand making a big deal about it, and made my comment. Now go on with your reason, I'm not interested.  
Yeah we shouldn't entangle in this trivial topic and the last comment about it is that the Han Chinese girls you referred is the not the whole even not the most. The application of dirty words by more and more youth is indeed not a good phenomenon but dirty words are drity words after all, they do unlikely become an elegant or neuter ones though they are widely used. This phenomenon just prove that those who have good educated experience have nothing about traditionally cuatrual achievement. This is what should be improved about current education system in China. Fortunately, children will grow up and youth will be elders and society will change. I think this problem will be better with the new generations' rise.
 
Well there are always exceptions in the world. But what I have shown are the general cases.  You have never lived here. Believe me,  you can feel the discrimination, which exists everywhere here. Anytype of system can't make a solution, without limiting the huge number of migrants, with the limited number of resources, the local people are being forced to make sacrifice. This is mainly ethnic clash. I'm not going to go in detail about cultural aspects.
Perhaps I know little about this aspect. In my opinion your advice seems not much feasible as well as mine. Even if it is a theoretically effective ways to resolve this problem but have you thought the legacy of it? I'm afraid it is not so fascinating. At least, my idea have no bad side-effect and I can do it from scratch and from myself and my friends. But what could you do about your advice?
 
Many of the people don't think all Hans are enemies. However, I'm not sure if you are aware of the nationalistic views of current Han Chinese. Xinhua web did a survey about the views of the Young Chinese, and persentage of the people who approve "making benefit for the sate by every means" is more than ninety persent. You can surf some Chinese forums, and you will be astonished by the views of the nationalistic young people. Even most liberals in abroad (maybe you are one of them) mainly don't approve self governing of the ethnic people. 
I agree with you concerning this vicious problem(so you can read simplified Chinese, can't you?). But I cannot believe this is the mainstream idea in most people's mind. I guess, the number of netizens is about at most 100 million, 1/3 of the whole of citizens, 1/13 of the whole of the population. Also the youth of the netizens is approximately half of the whole, 1/6 of all the citizens and 1/23 of the population. So the number of young nationalists is at most 50 million, 1/23 of the population, if all the young netizens are nationalists, but it is unprobably true. I know that a little number is not equivalent to none. That's what I realized and opposed. I also found that some professed minorities netizens are also serious nationalists. I don't know who they really are and whether they are minorties, though some of them are the real minories I believe.
Frankly, I think the words in virtual space are always exaggerating indeed because certain people, undoubtedly, are representative of magniloquent and frivolous.
 
I talked about historical fact. I'm not talking about race, as Han chinese are not a race, so you can't lable my comment as racialistic.
Which historical fact do you talk about? I think it isn't bound to be the worst rulers you referred. As for whether the word 'raciallistic' is acurate or not, I think it is not the case. The case is that people shouldn't smirch any other what may be a person, a nation, a race and a species as the last sentence I posted.


Edited by Toluy - 22-Aug-2006 at 10:32
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Posts: 31 		  Quote Toluy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2006 at 00:46
Originally posted by barbar

Originally posted by Toluy

Dear barbar, it's time to go to bedPinch in my time zone, I hope you will be fine and reply this post as a gentleman instead of a XXXblablabla...Good night.Sleepy

 
Well, let's see who is saying blabla. Isn't it irony someone who is unable to give any proofs for his statement except some idealistic ideas, hintly accusing  for saying blabla someone who has shown real facts.
 
Now, I've to work, I'll have time to comment your future posts (if they are really worthy) only in the weekend.
 
 
 
Irony, irony? Angry
But wait, what proof do you want, tell me. I think I don't need to prove any facts you have proclaimed, I just talk about the resolution to these facts you concern.Wink


Edited by Toluy - 22-Aug-2006 at 00:47
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UYGHURS ARE TURKIC.THE ONLY DIFFERENCE WAS THAT THEY SETTLED IN CITIES BEFORE TURKS DİD.
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Posts: 161 		  Quote Nestorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2006 at 11:48

Chinese believe in the Middle Kingdom and therefore imperialism...and assimilation. Learn from history, China will try and do to the Uigurs what they did to the historical non-Chinese peoples of Southern China hundreds of years ago.

So what are the Turkic peoples of Xinjiang going to do in respond??
Isa al-Masih, both God and Man, divine and human, flesh and spirit, saviour, servant and sovereign
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Let's keep this discussion focused on the culture of the Uyghurs and not turn it into a political debate folks. Thanks.
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Posts: 31 		  Quote Toluy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2006 at 12:00
Originally posted by Nestorian

Chinese believe in the Middle Kingdom and therefore imperialism...and assimilation. Learn from history, China will try and do to the Uigurs what they did to the historical non-Chinese peoples of Southern China hundreds of years ago.

So what are the Turkic peoples of Xinjiang going to do in respond??
 
No, it is not acurate. but there is not the proper place to talk about these, we could discuss it at East Asia Forum if you want. Thanks.
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Posts: 154 		  Quote cliveersknell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2006 at 00:34
I just visited Xinjiang last May, and went to Karamai,
Turfan, Urumqi, and Khashgar. Elegant place, very pretty
women (Uighurs primarily). I visited an oil refinery in Karamai, and saw many Uighur engineers and technicians working there. When I landed in Urumqi from Xian, there were numerous Uighur ground crew technicians and a new maintenance center set up by Lufthansa .
There are many germans and austrians in Xinjiang, Volkswagen has a big dual tech training center with money from the Hans Seidel foundation based in Bremen.
Many Uighurs are undergoing training in:
a. pneumatics
b. electromechanics
c. precision tooling
d. computer programming
to name a few from a long long list.
Many Uighurs are studying German and there is plan for a
Goethe Institut to open in Urumqi.
I was extremely impressed by what I saw, everyone is on the move and xtremely busy, no time for politics or loose talk.
In big cities like Urumqi , there is a growing language which combines Mandarin and Uighur, quite interesting.
Many freeways are under construction linking big cities with smaller towns like Khashgar. Even in Khashgar , people are on the move . Many Uighurs live much better than their Han brothers. Most of the upper class in Xinjiang are Uighur businessmen who made a killing in the trade with Kazakhstan, Kirghiztan , Tajikstan etc.
There are many poor among the Uighurs in smaller towns , but also among Han migrants.
The picture I saw was quite different than what I expected.
r's
Clive
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2006 at 06:01
uyghurs are more caucasoid than uzbek,kazak or kirghiz.
Uyghurs have nothing to do with Mongols in origin.
only mixed each other later periods.
so you can rarely see some caucasoid looking guys among mongols.
but they are Mongoloid totally.
and vice versa.
there are some uyghur words:
yaxshimusiz:guten tag
kechrng:entschuldigung
xeyr-xosh:tschs
Yeng:essen Sie
mangayli:gehen Sie
Isming nme?:Was ist Ihre name?
Ismim Alim:Meine name ist Alim.
Men oqughuchi:ich bin eine Student
Men oqutquchi:ich bin eine Lehrer.
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2006 at 06:34
i am very sick of the words of the chinese guys in this form.
why do these guys always like to tell lies?
 
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Posts: 4361 		  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2006 at 06:48
I'm sick of people coming to this forum, and in their 4th post accusing other members of lying.
You have to change your attitude, otherwise your stay here will be very short.
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Posts: 154 		  Quote cliveersknell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 00:31
May I say, that Uighur girls are among the most beautiful
in the world! China's next Miss Universe contestant should
be and Uighur girl from Xinjiang! More power and glory
to them!! Yahey!
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