turks and etruscans are TRO�AN?

neritan

As I told vulcan, the topic is still open, if either of you wish, we can take it there..



Again it seems like I'm missing something. Is this 1 word or 3 (I see gaps between la-pa-uon). In either way, one or three words, what does it mean and what is the point???

If this is connected to the word 'wine' then the Proto-IE origin of the word seems to be the Semitic "wayn".  Which was "Wo No" in Linear B' aka Mycenean and "Oinos" in ancient.. so what is this word??

Originally posted by neritan Originally posted by Maju Originally posted by neritan Same scholalars have assumed that albanian has preseved also some other pre-IE words Cabej:lepjete in c.p with greek  λαπαηον;  Vere, Vene  "wine"; shege " pomegranate" Baric: (H)ardhi in c.p with basque "Ardeo"; bisht "tail"; mal "mountain"; sh-kurre "scrub". Also there's no Basque word "ardeo". There is ardo (wine), ardi (sheep), arto (millet, now maize) and arte (between, also a type of oak). The three first terms could come from the East, via the Mediterranean or other route, as neither product is original from the country, but were imported at some time. Ardi (sheep) and arto (corn, millet) should have come with the Mediterranean Neolithic, unless it's a Neolithic neologism based in some other word. Ahari (ram), for instance, resembles too much Greek aries to be just a coincidence. you're right. The word is  ardao 'wine' http://members.tripod.com/~Groznijat/balkan/ehamp.html#9.

ARDOA is the nominative singular intransitive or the direct object (sing.)  declination of ARDO (wine). There's no ARDAO. In Basque you decline nouns by adding them suffixes, most typical is -A but also -AK (nominative intransitive plural, direct object plural or nominative transitive singular), -EK (nom. trans. plural), etc. But, like in other languages, nouns appear in the dictionary in their radical form, in this case ARDO.

Do you mean that ARDHI in Albanian means also wine?

Ardo must be rather old, because other beverages have composed names derived from it: garagardo = beer (garagar = barley <- gari = wheat), sagardo = cider (sagar = apple).

Well grape is actually mahats. And the buztan-bisht connection... well, I'm not sure what to think. Vowels are meaningful in Basque.

Anyhow, such coincidences can't be the base of anything. I also found some other strange coincidences with some Serbo-Croat words, particularly gora (mountain) and gore (up). Gora in Basque is up, upwards, viva!, being a clear ethimologically Basque word (goi+ra: to the high) The other connection was reka (river) and erreka (creek, small river) but this can well be an IE import into Basque. Anyhow you can't build much of a theory with just two words.

Btw, I just found, looking in the dictionary, that mahatsardo (wine of grapes) does exist, so maybe ardo orignally meant just alcoholic drink.


Edited by Maju

Thanks for the invitation  ...but Id rather not waste my time with those idiotic rip-off's from Greek and Macedonian propaganda sites.

Rip-offs, you're talking to me not to yourself, so please make a better choice of expressions, that is your tactic, whle I present personal ideas/research that isn't based nor supported by the most hard-core nationalists you do the exact opposite..

As for Makedones... I once again suggest you choose your words wisely if you want to have any kind of future in the EU, unless this is nothing but yet another provocation in lack of arguments... (your standard tactic)

neritan

Why did you avoid giving me a simple answer (unless there isn't one) , please do in your next post... thanks

Lepjate in english is 'sorrel'

is this plant

Blah, blah, blah. It has to do. But I'm not going to fall in hickjacking this topic on such a silly unrelated discussion. 

Originally posted by Phallanx Thanks for the invitation  ...but Id rather not waste my time with those idiotic rip-off's from Greek and Macedonian propaganda sites. Rip-offs, you're talking to me not to yourself, so please make a better choice of expressions, that is your tactic, whle I present personal ideas/research that isn't based nor supported by the most hard-core nationalists you do the exact opposite.. As for Makedones... I once again suggest you choose your words wisely if you want to have any kind of future in the EU, unless this is nothing but yet another provocation in lack of arguments... (your standard tactic)

Well you the one who always lamblasted me for using "FYROManian" propaganda now don't get too upset when I can tell you doing the same.

As for the EU thing I personally HOPE that Albania never joins. Why should we be Germany's and its sly advisor France, b^%$#es like the rest of the 23 "nations" in there??

I got my tactics you got your info... it all balances out

Dear frieends I couldn't understand why there are unwanted characters in my text. Sorry. I try to repost it again:

 

I have a book of Bilge Umar[1] telling the etymologies of the place (town, city, river, mountain etc) names in chemas-microsoft-comfficemarttags" />lace wt="on">Anatolialace>. Many historical names have Luwian origins. I tried to summarise the origin of some names:chemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />>>

> >

t="on">lace wt="on">Etrurialace>: Adria is a city built by Etrusci. Name "Adria" comes from the name of  "God Adra" (Adria/Adriatic sea also comes from the same origin). Etrusci seem to be believed in God Adra. "t="on">lace wt="on">Etruria"lace> is a name pronounced by Latin languages. t="on">Etruria comes from "Atruria" which is derived from "Atr(a)-lace wt="on">t="on">urlace>(a)-ia" meaning "Holy  homeland of Adra".>>

Etrusci (name of people living t="on">Etruria) comes from the name "Atra-Ska" meaning "lace wt="on">laceType wt="on">peninsulalaceType> of laceName wt="on">Adra"laceName>lace> (Umar, 1993: p.257).

> >

Adra/Atra/Odra/Otra: It is a name in Luwian and other similar consecutive Anatolian languages of 1000 BC and in Pelasgos language. Adra means "man, husband". Adra is the name of the husband of "mother Goddess" and of head of the gods (Umar, 1993: p.18).>>

> >

In the Old Testament (II Kings, XVII 31), it is told that people of Sefervaim who are exiled to Palestine by Sargon (Asyrrian King) also had believed in a Goddess and God whose names were Anammelekekh (angel Ana) and Adrammelekh (angel Adra) (Umar, 1993: p.18). >>

> >

In lace wt="on">Anatolialace> there are many historical names derived from Adra. Here are other historical names except lace wt="on">Anatolialace>:>>

1.                  Adra: A city in t="on">Spain, in the east of lace wt="on">t="on">Granadalace>. The name is thought to come from Luwian name Adra, There are also some other Luwian geographical historical names in t="on">Spain: Munda, Tartessos, lace wt="on">Ebrolace>.>>

2.                   Adra: A city in Arabia Petra (Stony Arabia).>>

3.                  Adra: Derat, which is the biggest city of t="on">Havran Region in the east of lace wt="on">laceName wt="on">JordanlaceName> laceType wt="on">RiverlaceType>lace>, had been named as Adra in ancient times.>>

4.                  Adra (written as Hadra in Latin): Ptolemaios (2 XVI 6) talks about this city in Liburnia Region. Today it is in the region of t="on">lace wt="on">Bosnialace>. (Umar, 1993: p.19)>>

> >

Adrama: Is is a place in the east of lace wt="on">Jordan Riverlace>, in Batenea. It is also a Luwian name deriving from �Adra-(u)ma� meaning �Adra�s people�.>>

> >

Edremit: It is a town in north Aegean cost of Anotolia and it is the name of the gulf. Edremit is in the south of t="on">lace wt="on">Troylace>. Edremit comes from Adramytteion which is the Hellenic pronunciation of the Luwian name "Adra-mut" meaning "lace wt="on">laceType wt="on">valleylaceType> of laceName wt="on">Adra"laceName>lace>. Adramut had been built first in a valley in that region (Umar, 1993: p.19).>>

> >

Adranos: It is the Hellenic pronunciation of the Luwian name Adrana which is derived from "Adra-(wa)-na" meaning "llace wt="on">laceType wt="on">andlaceType> of laceName wt="on">Adra"laceName>lace>. Adranos was the name of many other places in Anatolia and it was the name of a city of antique lace wt="on">tate wt="on">Sicilytate>lace> (Umar, 1993: p.19-20).>>

> >

Troia: It is told that the name Troia was written with "omicron" by Ions and with "omega" by Dors of Hellens. The origin of name was Luwian  Truwa deriving from "(A)dr(a)-uwa" meaning "place and lace wt="on">laceType wt="on">templelaceType> of laceName wt="on">Adra"laceName>lace> (Umar, 1993: p.801).>>

> >

As you see, Adra is an Anatolian God and is the husband/man of Anatolian mother Goddess Ma. There are many historical geographical names in lace wt="on">Anatolialace> derived from the Luwian names  Adra and Ma. I think people migrating from lace wt="on">Anatolialace> had taken their God�s name near and had given the name to their new lands.>>

> >

> >

Name "Adria" comes from the name of  "God Adra" (Adria/Adriatic sea also comes from the same origin). Etrusci seem to be believed in God Adra.

Never really heard of this God Adra before.. nor anything about the origin of the Adriatic sea from his name..

The way I know it, the name of the Adriatic sea and the names Adrian (also seen Adrianus) and Adria. derive from the Latin word "atrum" meaning dark/black..

"When the  Roman emperor Hadrian (117-138)  travelled to  the  East in  123-124,  he commanded that new buildings be constructed in the town of Odrysai, also known as Uscudama. The town grew into a city, and became one of the most important inthe Roman Empire. It was now thought worthy to take the name of the emperor who had so honoured the city, and Odrysai was re-named Hadrianopolis (Adrianopolis), Hadrian's city."  ( http://www.discoverturkey.com/english/haberler/yeni/osmanli- edirne.html)

Before the name Adrianapolis, the city had been named as "Odrysai" and people of the city had been called as "Odrysa" in Hellen language. The etimology of the name is "Odr(a)-u(wa)-(as)sa" which is a Luwian name and means "the temple place of Odra/Adra" (Umar, 1993: p.608).

You know Luwian was one of the three Indo-European languages used in Anatolia during the Hittite civilisation. The other languages were Pala and Nesi language. Nesi was the original name that was used by Hittites to call themselves (Akurgal, Ekrem, 1997, Anadolu K�lt�r Tarihi (Anatolian Culture History), T�B�TAK Yay�nlar�, Ankara, Turkey, p.51)

Luwian is accepted as the only long living language of Ancient Anatolian languages. The hieroglyph luwian had been used between 2000-1000 BC (Alp, Sedat, (2000), Hitit �a��nda Anadolu (Anatolia of Hittite Era), T�B�TAK Yay�nlar�, Ankara, p.1). Luwian had been talken in western and sothern parts of Anatolia in 2000 BC. A seal of 2000 BC, which belonged to Hittites and in Luwian language, was found in Troia during arceological digs . It shows that Luwians also lived in Troia in 2000 BC. (Alp, 2000: p.14)

 Of course there are many Hellenic names similar to Luwian names. That isn't suprising, because both languages are Indo-European. Many Luwian names had been used in Anatolia, in Aegean islands, in Girit, in Greece and in Italy. This shows that these people had used similar languages. The name of geooraphical places is accepted by arcologists "to be conservative " . There are similarities in Latin and Luwian language (Alp, 2000: p, 14) For centuries many names were thought to be -of course- Latin and Hellenic origin because �t was not known that tahre was a Hittite and a Luwian civilisation in Anatolia till 1906. Luwian, Pale and Hittite (Nesi) languages were lost languages. Nobody knew them. After 1906 more than 30 000 cuneiform writings were found. When Luwian writings were read and the language was learnt, the origins of many names were solved.