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Popular Falsities in History
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pekau View Drop Down
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Popular Falsities in History
    Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 12:59
Well, logically yes. Christians have the ideology of holy trinity, which means Jesus was a human form of God, According to this, Jesus was technically a God, not a Christian. If you look it this way, then I suppose you are right. I thought you wanted to introduce another "Jesus is something else" theory.Embarrassed
You entirely miss the point. A Christian is a follower of Christ. If Jesus was Christ he cannot have been his own follower. And if he wasn't Christ, then he couldn't be a Christian either, because he woulsn't have been able to believe in himself.
 
 
 


Edited by pekau - 27-Jan-2007 at 13:00
     
   
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 09:04
Originally posted by Lepidodendron

Originally posted by gcle2003

 
Originally posted by pekau

Originally posted by Gargoyle


Some popular falsities in History

1. That Jesus was a Christian.
2. Slaves built the Pyramids
3. Nero set Rome on fire.
4. Christians were martyred in the Coloseum.
5. Cleopatra was Egyptian.


 
Your first comment is not believed by all. There are so solid evidence indicating that Jesus was not a Christian.
 
You entirely miss the point. A Christian is a follower of Christ. If Jesus was Christ he cannot have been his own follower. And if he wasn't Christ, then he couldn't be a Christian either, because he woulsn't have been able to believe in himself.
 
It's not a question of evidence, but one of logic.
 
Well, so the pope can't be a Roman Catholic either?
Yes he can. He just can't be a follower of the Pope. To be a Roman Catholic you have to be believe in the primacy of the See of Rome, and therefore of the Pope of Rome.
The Pope presumably does believe all that, but he can't be his own follower.
 
It depends on how you define 'Christian'. Jesus was born a Jew alright.
Yes, but how would you define 'Christian' other than as a follower of Christ?
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Posts: 128 		  Quote Lepidodendron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 09:19
Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by Lepidodendron

 
Well, so the pope can't be a Roman Catholic either?
Yes he can. He just can't be a follower of the Pope. To be a Roman Catholic you have to be believe in the primacy of the See of Rome, and therefore of the Pope of Rome.
The Pope presumably does believe all that, but he can't be his own follower.
 
It depends on how you define 'Christian'. Jesus was born a Jew alright.
Yes, but how would you define 'Christian' other than as a follower of Christ?
 
"Someone who believes in the divinity of Christ"?
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 06:25
So Satan would be a Christian?
 
And celebrants of the Black Mass?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 06:29

Satan is the ruler of the world and a close colaborator of God himself. Read the book of Job.

 
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 10:54
Originally posted by pinguin

Satan is the ruler of the world and a close colaborator of God himself. Read the book of Job.

 
Pinguin
 
But hardly a Christian? I chose him as someone who would believe in the divinity of Christ (assuming he existed in the first place) but who could hardly be classified as a Christian.
 
Would you call the Anti-Christ a Christian? Seems a little odd to me.
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Posts: 128 		  Quote Lepidodendron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 14:01
Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by pinguin

Satan is the ruler of the world and a close colaborator of God himself. Read the book of Job.

 
Pinguin
 
But hardly a Christian? I chose him as someone who would believe in the divinity of Christ (assuming he existed in the first place) but who could hardly be classified as a Christian.
 
Would you call the Anti-Christ a Christian? Seems a little odd to me.
 
Well, would you call the Anti-Christ a believer?
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 14:53

Christ is God in human flesh, Anti-Christ is Satan in human form.

I would not say that Anti-Christ should be considered as Christian just because he knows the holy trinity. For instance, just because I am obsess with the belief of Jedi does not make me a follower of Jedi religion. You need more than mere knowledge to aquire faith in religion. Satan knows about God and the truth, he simply refuse to accept God's teaching and trys to have his own way.
     
   
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 14:59

Pinguin has an interesting point. Satan is a fallen angel, but is it truly because he is evil? I still believe that he is unforgiveable being, but some theories suggest that Jesus showed the relationship between Satan and God. Jesus represents God, and Judas represent Satan. Some believe that Satan is not evil in nature due to his pride and his sin... but God chosen Lucificer to become Satan, and glorify God by comparing with Satan's wickness. Recent theories suggest that Judas was not a simply evil man who betrayed Christ, but he was among the most faithful of Jesus' disciple. That's why Jesus chose Judas to betray, the ultimate task that would glorify Jesus (God) but due to this, Judas (Satan) would be condemned as evil, liar and other horrible namings.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2121611,00.html
     
   
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 08:09
Originally posted by Lepidodendron

Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by pinguin

Satan is the ruler of the world and a close colaborator of God himself. Read the book of Job.

 
Pinguin
 
But hardly a Christian? I chose him as someone who would believe in the divinity of Christ (assuming he existed in the first place) but who could hardly be classified as a Christian.
 
Would you call the Anti-Christ a Christian? Seems a little odd to me.
 
Well, would you call the Anti-Christ a believer?
Obviously. If he didn't believe in Christ why would he be 'anti'?
 
But two meanings of 'believe' are getting mixed up here. If by 'believe in' you mean 'be a follower of', then we're back to square one and - in that sense - Christ can't 'believe in' Christ.
 
However if by 'believe in' you mean 'believe exists' then obviously all of the supernatural beings in Christian mythology believe in Christ. Including Lucifer and the rest.
 
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Posts: 658 		  Quote Frederick Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 08:32
For all you Satan worshipers Tongue, here is an interesting piece of fiction that tackles that problem you've been discussing:
 
 
It's a fantasticly amusing take on Lucifer, apperently to be made a movie with the most recent Bond being casted as The Prince of Darkness... LOL


Edited by Frederick Roger - 30-Jan-2007 at 08:32
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Posts: 128 		  Quote Lepidodendron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 17:36
Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by Lepidodendron

Originally posted by gcle2003

 
Would you call the Anti-Christ a Christian? Seems a little odd to me.
 
Well, would you call the Anti-Christ a believer?
Obviously. If he didn't believe in Christ why would he be 'anti'?
 
But two meanings of 'believe' are getting mixed up here. If by 'believe in' you mean 'be a follower of', then we're back to square one and - in that sense - Christ can't 'believe in' Christ.
 
 
So you want to say Christ teaches things against his own conscience, since he doesn't believe in himself in the sense that he could ever be his own follower?


Edited by Lepidodendron - 30-Jan-2007 at 17:38
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 18:28
No, because according to the idea of trinity... Jesus is God in human form. God does not worship anyone. He created human beings to glorify Him.
     
   
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 18:49
Think of it as this way. A man watched the ants marching, and he also saw a bully with water bucket... ready to pour it to the ants. The man tried to warn the ants that unless they flee back to their shelter, they would die due to force of water upon the ants, or by drowning. Of course, the ants did not respond.
 
Same concept. God tried to send the prophets and often He showed vision to people for right path. Men, like ants, do not understand God's message due to their corrupted heart, lack of intelligence, etc. Hence, God Himself became a common name... making human beings to understand His will better.
     
   
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 18:50
Think of it as this way. A man watched the ants marching, and he also saw a bully with water bucket... ready to pour it to the ants. The man tried to warn the ants that unless they flee back to their shelter, they would die due to force of water upon the ants, or by drowning. Of course, the ants did not respond.
 
Same concept. God tried to send the prophets and often He showed vision to people for right path. Men, like ants, do not understand God's message due to their corrupted heart, lack of intelligence, etc. Hence, God Himself became a common name... making human beings to understand His will better.
 
 


Edited by pekau - 30-Jan-2007 at 18:50
     
   
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 18:51
As well, Jesus was able to forgive the mankind because our sin has been purified by God's crufixication... since God is sinless.
     
   
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2007 at 06:03
Originally posted by Lepidodendron

Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by Lepidodendron

Originally posted by gcle2003

 
Would you call the Anti-Christ a Christian? Seems a little odd to me.
 
Well, would you call the Anti-Christ a believer?
Obviously. If he didn't believe in Christ why would he be 'anti'?
 
But two meanings of 'believe' are getting mixed up here. If by 'believe in' you mean 'be a follower of', then we're back to square one and - in that sense - Christ can't 'believe in' Christ.
 
 
So you want to say Christ teaches things against his own conscience, since he doesn't believe in himself in the sense that he could ever be his own follower?
 
Not at all. It's just logically impossible to be your own follower. Try it sometime.
 
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Posts: 128 		  Quote Lepidodendron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2007 at 14:52
Originally posted by gcle2003

Originally posted by Lepidodendron

[QUOTE=gcle2003]
 
So you want to say Christ teaches things against his own conscience, since he doesn't believe in himself in the sense that he could ever be his own follower?
 
Not at all. It's just logically impossible to be your own follower. Try it sometime.
 
 
Damn, you're serious. I was just playing around with semantics a little bit. Geez.
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Posts: 128 		  Quote Lepidodendron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Jan-2007 at 14:56
Caesar said: "Alea iacta est" while crossing the Rubico.
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Posts: 184 		  Quote Hope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Feb-2007 at 17:50
Originally posted by Gargoyle


Some popular falsities in History

1. That Jesus was a Christian.
2. Slaves built the Pyramids
3. Nero set Rome on fire.
4. Christians were martyred in the Coloseum.
5. Cleopatra was Egyptian.


 
 
1: That Jesus was a Christian is of course not so, he founded the religion, but a Christian is a follower of Christ, not Christ himself.
 
2: This is unfamiliar to me. How were they built then?
 
3: I can only agree that it is most likely a myth.
 
4: Might be, but they were persecuted by Nero and killed, according to Tacitus.
 
5: She was of Hellenic origin, but lived in Egypt so I don't disagree.
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