Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Mustafa Kemal Atatrk
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 8>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Mustafa Kemal Atatrk
    Posted: 10-Jun-2005 at 17:03

Originally posted by Mixcoatl

Those people were prosecuted because they violated the law which is clearly stated in the Turkish Penal Code.

In that case that penal code is wrong.

Because Turkish Repulic protects its national symbols, values and unity you call it a fascist country.

There's nothing wrong with protecting national symbols, but sending someone to jail for criticizing someone who died 70 years ago is fascist.

What about France and Switzerland? In those countries you can't even express your opinion about a historical event. If you do, you go to jail.

nonsense! could you give some examples?

From your point of view, it might be wrong. I respect your opinion as long as you express them in a polite way. And we can make some wonderful discussions about it. However, I see that some people here don't try to understand but only show their pure hatred towards my country.

I'm not talking about critisizing Ataturk. You can critisize Ataturk. I do critisize some of his desicions too. Our teachers, parents teach us not to worship him but try to understand him truly which is very complicated. My point is you cannot insult him. You cannot write in a newspaper that his mother was a pros..... which really happened in the past.

Prof. Dr. Yusuf Halacoglu is my example. That happened 2-3 months ago.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 10:50

Originally posted by Phallanx

...... since the topic is about Kemal, what I'd.......

which Kemal? Do the Turkish forumers call Venizelos, Elefterios?

Mustafa Kemal Atatrk, or just Atatrk.

Just respect please. But if you don't, then don't expect the Turks here to fall down beside you.



Edited by YAFES
Back to Top
sovietsniper View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary


Joined: 26-May-2005
Location: Russian Federation
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28 		  Quote sovietsniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 11:06
this topic is about the man on all the turkish bank notes
victory to russia
Back to Top
Justice View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 29-Apr-2005
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 62 		  Quote Justice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 12:52
Originally posted by YAFES

Originally posted by Phallanx

...... since the topic is about Kemal, what I'd.......

which Kemal? Do the Turkish forumers call Venizelos, Elefterios?

Mustafa Kemal Atatrk, or just Atatrk.

Just respect please. But if you don't, then don't expect the Turks here to fall down beside you.



It is written in the Turkish Constitution that if you ''insult'' Ataturk you will go in prison or prosecuted.Insult doesn't neceserily mean swear words.According the Turkish State the fact that i question Ataturk and his fascistic activities i am somehow ''insulting'' him.That is if i live in Germany during the Reichstad and question the Holocaust and get in prison because for insulting Hitler.
Even if Ataturk is this so called peacefull dictator the Turkish state doesn't have the right to put a WRITER or a JOURNALIST in prison.That is called Fascism and it means that Turkey is a fascist state.

Fascism:A social and political ideology with the primary guiding principle that the state or nation is the highest priority , rather than personal or individual freedoms.

I ''wonder'' what would happen to me if i made this argument in Turkish and the police somehow found it out.
THEY WILL NOT PASS
Back to Top
Murtaza View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804 		  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 13:07

Yes Turkey is a fasist state, Greece is a terrorist state. So All thing continue. Justice this post is not for fasism of Turkey. So pls stop this.

 

 
Back to Top
Phallanx View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 07-Feb-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1283 		  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 13:42
Originally posted by Murtaza


which Kemal? Do the Turkish forumers call Venizelos, Elefterios?

Mustafa Kemal Atatrk, or just Atatrk.

Just respect please. But if you don't, then don't expect the Turks here to fall down beside you.


What are you talking about???
Is calling him KEMAL disrepectful???
If so blaim his parents for giving him the name not me for using it, that is stupid. Hell, call him Eleutherios, Leuteris, Lakis or what ever you like for all I care, as long as it is his name and no attempt to insult.

Would you please answer my questions because I have the feeling you guys are avoiding them.

What are Lattifa's letters all about and why aren't they disclosed??
What is it about them that spooks you guys so much on any simple reference of them??

I mean, if the letters contained positive thoughts, wouldn't they have been published and exploited to add to his reputation??
All the silence makes me believe that they are probably some kind of "myth busters".

I would also like to hear any info about his being of Jewish origin, there is alot of info circulated.
To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
Back to Top
Murtaza View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804 		  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 13:49

All the silence makes me believe that they are probably some kind of "myth busters".

Yes they are so what?

Still Ataturk resqued us from your nicely army. He made mistakes so? Everyone made mistake. If he(I dont think this is true) is jewish so? Jewish are also our citizens. He did what he think right. I dont understand you sometimes you accuse him for fasism, Sometimes you accuse him because he was jew.

By the way, It was not murtaza who write

Why people should learn personel letters of Ataturk and Lattifa? Why are you so interested with the past of Ataturk? Everything happened. It was our just to improve what he did true, and to stop what he did wrong.

But I think you greeks should realy forget that war. It was not Ataturk guilt. It was Greece guilt to attack our country.

 
Back to Top
aknc View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 12-Mar-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1449 		  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 14:22
Originally posted by Justice

Originally posted by YAFES

Originally posted by Phallanx

...... since the topic is about Kemal, what I'd.......

which Kemal? Do the Turkish forumers call Venizelos, Elefterios?

Mustafa Kemal Atatrk, or just Atatrk.

Just respect please. But if you don't, then don't expect the Turks here to fall down beside you.



It is written in the Turkish Constitution that if you ''insult'' Ataturk you will go in prison or prosecuted.Insult doesn't neceserily mean swear words.According the Turkish State the fact that i question Ataturk and his fascistic activities i am somehow ''insulting'' him.That is if i live in Germany during the Reichstad and question the Holocaust and get in prison because for insulting Hitler.
Even if Ataturk is this so called peacefull dictator the Turkish state doesn't have the right to put a WRITER or a JOURNALIST in prison.That is called Fascism and it means that Turkey is a fascist state.



Fascism:A social and political ideology with the primary guiding principle that the state or nation is the highest priority , rather than personal or individual freedoms.

I ''wonder'' what would happen to me if i made this argument in Turkish and the police somehow found it out.

nothing!!they just reported my friend for questioning him and nothing happended,and it was almost an insult!

now tell me,which write was put to jail because of this?
"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
Back to Top
aknc View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 12-Mar-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1449 		  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 14:24

What are you talking about???
Is calling him KEMAL disrepectful???
If so blaim his parents for giving him the name not me for using it, that is stupid. Hell, call him Eleutherios, Leuteris, Lakis or what ever you like for all I care, as long as it is his name and no attempt to insult.

Phallanx i'd have to say that i agree with you there,you called him with his original name,but that was incorrect,kemal was given to him later,"mustafa" is the original one

but on the total,you are right,you just called his name
"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
Back to Top
Phallanx View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 07-Feb-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1283 		  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 14:54
Murtaza

Well, yeah you're right, my mistake it should have been addressed to YAFES.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, at least not in that post. You people have idolized him and I'm just curious, would this change your views on him if all the stories are proven to be true???

That is what I mean. If he is a Jew wouldn't you agree that the the title Gazi="warrior of Islamic faith" is inappropriate??
That's no kind of critisism, just simple questions. Will the myth collapse, will you continue to believe the same things you do today, will he still be idollized or conveniently forgotten???

Stories are stories but I recall a strong reaction when I suggested them to be true. Are the letters hidden because they prove some of these horrendous 'stories', what do you think???
To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
Back to Top
Murtaza View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804 		  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 15:00

Phallanx

I think there is something intresting at that letters. But I dont know what it is.

If he is Jewish, will this change what he did?

But well, maybe we will stop to idolize him. But why a jews fight for Turkey? I think there is other interesting thing at that letters but dont know what it is. So why should I care about that letters?

 

 

 



Edited by Murtaza
Back to Top
Murtaza View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804 		  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 15:02

He is a death hero. As you know mostly heroes are idolized after his death.

 
Back to Top
aknc View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 12-Mar-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1449 		  Quote aknc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 15:18

Originally posted by Phallanx

Murtaza

Well, yeah you're right, my mistake it should have been addressed to YAFES.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, at least not in that post. You people have idolized him and I'm just curious, would this change your views on him if all the stories are proven to be true???

That is what I mean. If he is a Jew wouldn't you agree that the the title Gazi="warrior of Islamic faith" is inappropriate??
That's no kind of critisism, just simple questions. Will the myth collapse, will you continue to believe the same things you do today, will he still be idollized or conveniently forgotten???

Stories are stories but I recall a strong reaction when I suggested them to be true. Are the letters hidden because they prove some of these horrendous 'stories', what do you think???

if he is jew nothing will change,he will still be brave and i will sill owe him my freedom

yes,if he was a jew,gazi would be inappropriate,but frankly i don't care,i am free because of him
"I am the scourage of god appointed to chastise you,since no one knows the remedy for your iniquity exept me.You are wicked,but I am more wicked than you,so be silent!"
              
Back to Top
Justice View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 29-Apr-2005
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 62 		  Quote Justice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 04:20
I find it quite amusing  that  the biggest partizan of Turkish Nationalism is actually not even a Turk,but a jew, and everyone is pretending as if everything is normal,without even wondering why was this little piece of info hidden to them.

Edited by Justice
THEY WILL NOT PASS
Back to Top
Murtaza View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804 		  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 04:26
Justice I think secret is not related with race, But religion(I think he is agnostic or atheist). By the way, We accept anyone as a Turk(without important of his blood or genes), If he accept and adapt Turkish culture. So you lost point there
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 04:46

Originally posted by Justice

I find it quite amusing  that  the biggest partizan of Turkish Nationalism is actually not even a Turk,but a jew, and everyone is pretending as if everything is normal,without even wondering why was this little piece of info hidden to them.

Does it really interest or concern you? I mean, it isnt your job to argue about our decisions' rightness or results. Of course you can discuss them, this is an history forum, but our decisions and leaders are ours, so nothing gives you the responsibility to judge our past, just take it easy.

Ataturk was a very interesting personality. His life, his decisions, his view of life were very wise and reformist. And I dont want to get in his origins or religious past here, you arent the people to discuss these with. But know that he sent Freemasons out of Turkey once... 

Anyway, results are always the most important issue. So whether you call him Mustafa, Kemal or Ataturk, even if you call him "your beloved Kemal", doesnt matter. The result is that man kicked the enemy out of our country, and opened swimming courses for Greek armies in Aegean. And our republic is based on his philosophy, even after him some governments have betrayed his inheritance. Yes, our country's principals are based on one man, but at least, that man is a war commander, a politics and history man, and a gazi, not an archibishop like your Makarios etc...
Back to Top
Justice View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 29-Apr-2005
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 62 		  Quote Justice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 07:14

Oguzoglu please spare the time.If Ataturk was who you think he is,there would be actually democracy in Turkey now.Ataturk didn't kicked any Freemassons out.No offence but you have no idea what is happening in Turkey and who are those who control it and they don't even give a crap about your people either.Turkey and Israel has the best relations after all.

By the way i was right.Ataturk is a Jew.Check what i found in a Official jewish
site called Jew Watch.

Copy and Past the link please:
http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-leaders-folder.html

I think you should start calling him Atajew now
JK



Edited by Justice
THEY WILL NOT PASS
Back to Top
azimuth View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
SlaYer'S SlaYer

Joined: 12-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2979 		  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 07:15

 

what do Gazi means? i know what it means in Arabic but what does it mean in Turkish when u add it as a title?

 

 
Back to Top
Justice View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 29-Apr-2005
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 62 		  Quote Justice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 07:24
From what i remember they were fanatic Ottoman soldiers and they had some special privileges,although i am not very sure about this.
THEY WILL NOT PASS
Back to Top
Murtaza View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 03-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 804 		  Quote Murtaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 07:34

Caliph I think It is same for araps too.

The one who survived from war called as a gazi. And If they are death they are sehit.

Also we see it  as honourful tittle. For exp. We name a city as GaziAntep(Former name is Antep). Because they rebelled Armenian-France soldiers alone.And resqued their city alone.(No help from Ankara).

"From what i remember they were fanatic Ottoman soldier" And you are a moronic greece citizen. Gazi is a tittle related with religion not ottomans.

And I think You have problem about who is mustafa kemal. Let me tell you who he is. He is a patriot who protected his country from your brutal army. Nothing will change this. He made his mistake, he made his heroic acts. I dont understand why you are so hopelesly making this posts. You should forget that war my friend. You are not right at that war, and you lost it. So cope with it.

 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 8>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.110 seconds.