Turkey as an EU candidate

Bleed for Europe? Well excuse me, but how has Turkey bled for Europe? The one and only time Turkish forces have bled for anything NATOic, was in Korea and they bled for their good ally and protector US of A - which, last time I noticed, has absolutely nothing to do with Europe. Plus, Turkey - as the "first line defense against Warshaw pact" - was receiving generous compensation by their ally: immunity for the wrong-doings they did all over those years to their minorities, plus they have invaded a sovereign country with the blessing of USA and still occupy 1/3 of this country contra to every sense of international law and order, and not to forget that they are receiving every year generous funding for the ties turkey has with USA.

EU, even though several non-Europeans seem to believe the contrary, is NOT a US-NATO protectorate, but an economic (primarly) union of sovereign EUROPEAN countries. Turkey is neither European nor on par with the other EU members. USA is not (or at least should not) having a say in European affairs and Turkey is USAs ally, not Europe's.

This is not a welfare pact or a home for the poor US-allies to find refuge, it's a completely different thing altogether. There are criteria for those who wish to enter. It's neither a matter of history (and Turks have a few centuries of anti-European actions, if you really want to go into history) nor petty politics: Do they have what it gets? They'll become members. If they don't, they won't. So simple.

Infidel

Oh, yes there is. And Turkey is not part of it. Neither is, for instance, Bulgaria, but there is much less separating Bulgaria from Europe, than Turkey. You need to understand what really Europe is. Obviously you do not.

well, pal, then I guess NATO and especially the country that is dominating NATO (that is USA) should give credit and recognition to the countries being the "front line" against "communism"... My suggestion: if USA really wants to aid Turkey, make it a State. 53rd, I think?

Why unload Turkey to Europe? EU ain't NATO. Half EU members were not NATO members, anyway.

And Turkey wasn't the only country bordering Warshaw pact countries. Let's inclued South Korea in the EU. Let's restore the Shah to Persia and include them in the EU too. Greece, Finland, Austria and Germany (the other "first line" countries) are already EU members so we don't have to deal with them too

Personally I am against of being a part of a declining power. I do not see any future in Europe and I am not supporting Turkey's candidacy to Europe. Turkey and EU will live as neigbours and it would be better making cooperation (if possible) instead of getting too close for both of them.

I think Turkey should strenghten her ties especially with Russia in all matters and other Turkic republics in Central Asia. If USA can revise his policies over Middle East and have much intellectual and vise government, Turkey should make cooperation with USA and keep EU away from the area as much as possible.

I do not see any future with Europe at all............ 

Well spoken, my orthodox friend, Constantinople as the capital of the Neo-Byzantine Empire, a member state of the EU. There even is a candidate for the vacant throne:

http://www.new-byzantium.org/houseof.html

I think they take that serious!

In fact you are not responsable if you get knowledge of distorted history. So let me remind you and other forumers some facts which had been witnessed in near future. 

Greece was ruling by an ultra nationalist American supported junda (military government) since 21 April 1967 to 1974 summer. You can get a detailed information from A Short History of Modern Greece, by Richard Clogg (Cambridge University Press, 1985), pp 185-199. (and you can find many other sources too of course)

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/coup_in_athens.htm

They did not stop only in Greece and they wanted to establish their corrupt regime in Cyprus too via a coup d'etat by removing the pro-Soviet president Makarios in 1974. Greece was backing by Americans. They have killed many Turks and Greek communists and Turkish population were concentrated in enclaves. Their aim was ENOSIS which means annexation of Cyprus to Greece. Enough is enough and Turkey invaded half of the Cyprus DESPITE HEAVY AMERICAN OPPOSITION. USA has put embargo on Turkey after this. 

You are distorting everything, you are trying to sell crow as nightingale.

Yes Turkey is an ally of USA like many other Europeans country. You are showing as crime to be an ally of USA. On the other hand we are not an ally USA under all conditions. For example Turkey did not allow US troops stationed in Turkey to attack Iraq. There is are limits of this relation.

What do you mean by anti-European politics? In Europe millions of people died in wars who had been started by Europeans. Isn't it an anti-European politics? Are those Turkish crimes too? European Union was built as a peace project. The basic aim of EU is this.  France and Germany had decided that they will go nowhere if they would not forget the past. Do not forget that while Ottomans were fighting against European states at the same time they were ally with some others.     

Would you please tell me if there is a Turkish minority in Greece or not. Ysterday there was a news saying that Greek supreme court has decided that it was illegal to use the word TURK in a Turkish association in Greece.

Is it true? If yes, do you think it is fair and it is appropriate to the criteria that you mentioned above? Is this the human rights that EU is looking for?

Do you accept that there is a Turkish minority in Greece or not?  

Oh really? What is your problem with Bulgaria? But it seems like Greece have always problems with their neigbours. Macedonia, Albania, Bulgaria, Turkey...... That is all I think.

Don't you ever think if there is a some kind of mentality problem of Greece or not? What is your problem?

Alparslan is right here.

1. America did not support Turkey in Cyprus.

In Cyprus America was trying to avoid the collapse of the Southern wing of NATO, which means avoiding a full scale war between Turkey and Greece, and in order to achieve it they applied pressure on both sides.

U.S. placed a crippling trade embargo on Turkey after the invasion of Cyprus (which was in response to an annexation attempt by a non-democratic country) in 1974. This embargo was lifted only after Turkey shut down the NATO bases in Turkey. So the 'america did not object' argument goes down the drain, there were serious shortages of fuel, etc. because of that embargo in Turkey. Turkey faced American opposition to its actions in Cyprus during the 1960s as well, i.e. the infamous 'Johnson letter'. By the way, applying the same logic one can say the US did not object to the Greek invasion of Cyprus (through proxy) either. Of course, you'll think that this is incredible and you'll start whining why nobody appreciated your banditry if you believe Cyprus should belong to Greece...

It seems that Greek nationalists are quite rabid supporters of the 'Turkey being the best friend of America' conspiracy theory. Iraq affair clearly shows who America's best friends are. Looking at the issue from the other side of the Aegean, you'll see that Greece got more military/economic help from America than Turkey did (the official ratio is 7 to 10: 7 to Turkey, 10 to Greece). 

2. NATO is not US.

Turkey is a member of all European institutions you care to name, from the ECJ to the Champions League, from the very beginning. Discussions on Turkey being part of Europe are indeed very recent, have started recently due to provocations by people opposing Turkish entry to the EU. What people have been saying here is 'apparently Turkey was European enough to be integrated in joint European defence during the cold war (or to be allowed to join other European institutions), so it is hypocritical to discuss the Europeanness of Turkey now'. In other words, for the usual right-wing scum in Europe Turkey is European when it comes to defending their asses but is Asian when it comes to opening borders... Fill in bogus geographical, historical, etc. arguments as you see fit and agitate the masses for votes.

3. There are ethnic minorities in Greece.

Turks included. Greek government usually denies it, although the previous foreign minister called them 'Turks' for the first time. It is like the way Turkey used to say 'Kurds are mountain Turks'. By the way not all Turks were exchanged with Greeks in the 20s. Around 100k Greeks in Istanbul and Turks in Western Thrace remained where they were. The Greeks in Istanbul later left for Greece, mostly due to pressure from the Turkish state. The Turks in Western Thrace stayed in Greece mostly because they were poor and non-urban, i.e. less mobile.

4. Istanbul is very probably a short form of Constantinople. Take the syllables -stan-pol, add an I to the beginning (Turks always do, because Turkish words don't start with 2 consonants) and you are almost there.

It's actually the other way round

In any case of course there're minorities in Greece. There're 200,000 Muslims in Thrace (mainly). But the composition is unclear. Some are Pomacks, some Turks and some Gypsies. Almost all of them are bilingual of even trilingual (Pomacks).

No it doesn't, it has actually been reduced even further. You refer to military aid in the form of equipment and FDS (military credit) right?

Because we don't receive any other kind of aid.

But it's strange to see that Egypt is receiving so much!