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pikeshot1600
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Topic: It just gets better! The cartoon thing Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 19:53 |
Voyager seems to agree that this conflict between Islam and the "West" has been ongoing for many centuries. The current turmoil is only another incarnation. Churchill's comments (in Victorian manor) speaks to observations of a century ago. We could go on forever of course.
I appreciate that there are many who do not want the situation to be what it seems, and that criticism and even ostracism can come of holding opinions that are not considered "correct" in contemporary circumstances.
However, The differences that manifest themselves do appear to be more beyond accomodation and amity than reconcileable with them. The two ancient and proseletyzing faiths and the differing civilizations they have founded, and that have so often clashed in the past, are only comfortable with each other when there is a tense coexistence. They are not coexisting well these days.
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pikeshot1600
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Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 19:55 |
Let's see if we can wrap this up tomorrow. I think we all have had it with cartoons, and since I started this thread, I plan to lock it up sometime tomorrow.
There remain other issues to discuss.
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Miller
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Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 20:26 |
These cartoons were published in a local Danish paper. Only a handful of people would have seen it, but now thanks to all the fuss Muslims have created everyone in world have seen them. On top of that it has helped the rest of world realize what kind fear people in the Muslim countries have to leave under and why many of these countries are listed as 99% hardcore believers in Islam. If someone in Denmark can get this kind of reaction imagine what it would take to question Islam in a Islamic country
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arch.buff
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Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 22:18 |
Originally posted by Miller
These cartoons were published in a local Danish paper. Only a handful of people would have seen it, but now thanks to all the fuss Muslims have created everyone in world have seen them. On top of that it has helped the rest of world realize what kind fear people in the Muslim countries have to leave under and why many of these countries are listed as 99% hardcore believers in Islam. If someone in Denmark can get this kind of reaction imagine what it would take to question Islam in a Islamic country
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No question or doubts
An eternal Islamic dark-age, they just dont know it
Edited by arch.buff
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flyingzone
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Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 22:25 |
Just read my signature:
"There was a time when religion ruled the world. It is known as the Dark Ages." - Ruth Hurmence Green
But mind you, this is applicable not just to Islam but to all religions.
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arch.buff
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Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 22:28 |
Hey Im a christian and I also believe your siganture.
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flyingzone
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Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 22:51 |
Good.
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arch.buff
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Posted: 02-Feb-2006 at 23:09 |
I wouldnt want the papacy to rule over America for instance, for the simple fact that all arent catholic. Everybody's got to have their freedom to beliveve and express what they want. Also we NEED doubt, we NEED questioning, this is what births new ideas. Also we need reform every now and again and civil war isnt always a bad thing.
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DukeC
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Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 00:13 |
Originally posted by arch.buff
Now mulims claiming Islam birthed western culture and the West would still be in the dark ages if not for Islam
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Never said muslims birthed western culture. Most classical knowledge in the west was destroyed during the dark ages because it didn't conform with the gospel. It was mainly through contact with eastern cultures that what knowledge that remained of classical times was regained.
Islam was years ahead of Europe in medicine, science, math, literature...
No contact with Islam no Age of Enlightenment, no Renaissance.
There was also much more than conflict going on between our cultures at that time.
I'm not Muslim by the way, I just believe in giving credit where credit is due.
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DukeC
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Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 00:18 |
"Fear of the other" worked so well for our species in the last century, it's really life affirming to see that's it's still alive and well.
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Maju
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Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 02:14 |
Originally posted by DukeC
Originally posted by arch.buff
Now mulims claiming Islam birthed western culture and the West would still be in the dark ages if not for Islam
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Never said muslims birthed western culture. Most classical knowledge
in the west was destroyed during the dark ages because it didn't
conform with the gospel. It was mainly through contact with eastern
cultures that what knowledge that remained of classical times was
regained.
Islam was years ahead of Europe in medicine, science, math, literature...
No contact with Islam no Age of Enlightenment, no Renaissance.
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Most of Renaissance influences came from Byzantium. There the only
role that Islam played was that of scaring the refugees westward.
There were other points of contact but let's not exaggerate.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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DukeC
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Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 02:29 |
Originally posted by Maju
Originally posted by DukeC
Originally posted by arch.buff
Now mulims claiming Islam birthed western culture and the West would still be in the dark ages if not for Islam
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Never said muslims birthed western culture. Most classical knowledge in the west was destroyed during the dark ages because it didn't conform with the gospel. It was mainly through contact with eastern cultures that what knowledge that remained of classical times was regained.
Islam was years ahead of Europe in medicine, science, math, literature...
No contact with Islam no Age of Enlightenment, no Renaissance.
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Most of Renaissance influences came from Byzantium. There the only role that Islam played was that of scaring the refugees westward.
There were other points of contact but let's not exaggerate.
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Most of the artistic influences were Byzantine but much of our basis in science, medicine, math, astronomy, literature, even geography were heavily influenced by Islam. Does it make any sense to believe that an empire that stretched from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific would not leave a lasting imprint on what was a very backwards Europe at the time.
It's chauvinism to believe otherwise.
Edited by DukeC
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pikeshot1600
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Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 07:51 |
Originally posted by DukeC
Originally posted by Maju
Originally posted by DukeC
Originally posted by arch.buff
Now mulims claiming Islam birthed western culture and the West would still be in the dark ages if not for Islam
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Never said muslims birthed western culture. Most classical knowledge in the west was destroyed during the dark ages because it didn't conform with the gospel. It was mainly through contact with eastern cultures that what knowledge that remained of classical times was regained.
Islam was years ahead of Europe in medicine, science, math, literature...
No contact with Islam no Age of Enlightenment, no Renaissance.
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Most of Renaissance influences came from Byzantium. There the only role that Islam played was that of scaring the refugees westward.
There were other points of contact but let's not exaggerate.
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Most of the artistic influences were Byzantine but much of our basis in science, medicine, math, astronomy, literature, even geography were heavily influenced by Islam. Does it make any sense to believe that an empire that stretched from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific would not leave a lasting imprint on what was a very backwards Europe at the time.
It's chauvinism to believe otherwise.
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You are correct to a degree that some important cultural/scientific contributions have been made by "Islamic" culture. But their antecedents in the Levant and Mesopotamia and Persia, who laid the basis for those, were using medicinal elements, and making astronomical observations and writing philosophy long before there were Moslems.
The algebra only goes so far.
Edited by pikeshot1600
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barbar
General
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Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 11:14 |
Originally posted by Maju
Originally posted by DukeC
Originally posted by arch.buff
Now mulims claiming Islam birthed western culture and the West would still be in the dark ages if not for Islam
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Never said muslims birthed western culture. Most classical knowledge in the west was destroyed during the dark ages because it didn't conform with the gospel. It was mainly through contact with eastern cultures that what knowledge that remained of classical times was regained.
Islam was years ahead of Europe in medicine, science, math, literature...
No contact with Islam no Age of Enlightenment, no Renaissance.
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Most of Renaissance influences came from Byzantium. There the only role that Islam played was that of scaring the refugees westward.
There were other points of contact but let's not exaggerate.
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Now, I have seen your true face Maju.
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Either make a history or become a history.
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Boztorgay
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Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 12:02 |
Never said muslims birthed western culture. Most classical knowledge in the west was destroyed during the dark ages because it didn't conform with the gospel. |
True.
It was mainly through contact with eastern cultures that what knowledge that remained of classical times was regained. |
eastern culteres yes, islam more disputable: yes, through arab translations get the westerners the new knowledge, but they was just transmitters. Take aristotle philosophy, that of avicena and averroes, and conclude that they put nothing new to that old philosophy; they just commented it, with a sort of adulation for the "absolute master". Have to note too, that they are "islamic" in the same sens voltaire is "christian".
Islam was years ahead of Europe in medicine, science, math, literature... |
Yes, but west was not exactly the best choosen place to compare with. All the knowledge was from persian and bizantyne origin. Ethnically but more important, ideologically.
No contact with Islam no Age of Enlightenment, no Renaissance. |
It seems that you don't care for the arguments of others: i explained why your thesis is false: the west, at 1200, the moment of first translations from arabian, was already expanding intelectually for 3 centuries!!! All what these transl. has given to them, was Aristotle. But without him, there was abelard with his new ideas, was Eriugena, both of them with liberating worldviews. The arabs had Aristotle, the bizantyne had Aristotle, but nothing errupted there intelectually!!! NOTHING.
Edited by Boztorgay
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Il n'y a que les imbciles et les huitres qui adhrent - Paul Valry
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Maju
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Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 12:49 |
Originally posted by barbar
Now, I have seen your true face Maju.
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This is my true face.
Or was some 10 years ago.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Boztorgay
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Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 13:17 |
the killer of van gogh declared today that the prophet Mohamed preached the violence. Our friend Bush was heard tolding that islam mean "peace"; arab linguists told us that islam mean "submission", not "peace", and historian told us that Mohamed indeed preached and did practise violence in it's more cruel forms.
Who's right? Who's lying?
Edited by Boztorgay
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Il n'y a que les imbciles et les huitres qui adhrent - Paul Valry
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DukeC
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Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 13:32 |
It's 2006 not 1006 AD . Just thought I'd point that out.
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arch.buff
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Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 13:48 |
Originally posted by barbar
Originally posted by Maju
Originally posted by DukeC
Originally posted by arch.buff
Now mulims claiming Islam birthed western culture and the West would still be in the dark ages if not for Islam
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Never said muslims birthed western culture. Most classical knowledge in the west was destroyed during the dark ages because it didn't conform with the gospel. It was mainly through contact with eastern cultures that what knowledge that remained of classical times was regained.
Islam was years ahead of Europe in medicine, science, math, literature...
No contact with Islam no Age of Enlightenment, no Renaissance.
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Most of Renaissance influences came from Byzantium. There the only role that Islam played was that of scaring the refugees westward.
There were other points of contact but let's not exaggerate.
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Now, I have seen your true face Maju.
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?? Maju's correct, Byzantium most influenced the Renaissance, as far as I knew.
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pikeshot1600
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Posted: 03-Feb-2006 at 17:37 |
I think we have beaten this to death.
As I said yeaterday, I am closing the topic.
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