Worst U.S. President

The dropping of the atomic bomb was the most prudent thing Truman ever did (and I think he was a very good President).

You say the US salughtered innocent civilians, big f**king deal, it's a war, the point of war is to kill your enemy.  I don't even care if they were all old ladies, just by going to work, making sandwiches for factory workers and soldiers or paying their taxes they were our enemies.  In a war, the lives of the enemy are immaterial.  Any sentimental old woman talk of slaughtering civilians shows a weakness of moral fortitude and lack of mental aptitude.

The bombs ended the war without a single US casualty.  Unless some other way could be shown to end the war without any casualties on our side, my stance on the annihilation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki will never be changed.

BBC is so derned biased and Amacherish reel amarikans woch Foks.

Originally posted by Genghis The dropping of the atomic bomb was the most prudent thing Truman ever did (and I think he was a very good President). You say the US salughtered innocent civilians, big f**king deal, it's a war, the point of war is to kill your enemy.  I don't even care if they were all old ladies, just by going to work, making sandwiches for factory workers and soldiers or paying their taxes they were our enemies.  In a war, the lives of the enemy are immaterial.  Any sentimental old woman talk of slaughtering civilians shows a weakness of moral fortitude and lack of mental aptitude.

So Kardzic and the others,  Hitler himself... they just did they job... that's your reasoning, isn't it?
 

Originally posted by Thegeneral Originally posted by gcle2003 Originally posted by Thegeneral Originally posted by Decebal Go on some websites from around the world: the BBC, the CBC, if you don't speak any other language but English. BBC, lol, yeah right!  I would trust Nazi propaganda more than that! Is that really the best you can do in the way of defence? No, but I hjave given my defense over and over and over and over.  And every time, I get the same response, over and over and over and over.  Quite frankly, I'm tired of it.  I suppose ocnservatives and Nazis have some similar ideas.  something like locking up all democrats

general:

I don't think you are going to convince them. 

Originally posted by Illuminati A-bombs: 2 cities destroyed Invasion: Whole nation destroyed you do the math.............

This is a deceitful proposition.

Negotiation: no one destroyed. My maths are much better.


Edited by Maju

Originally posted by Genghis You say the US salughtered innocent civilians, big f**king deal, it's a war, the point of war is to kill your enemy.  I don't even care if they were all old ladies, just by going to work, making sandwiches for factory workers and soldiers or paying their taxes they were our enemies.  In a war, the lives of the enemy are immaterial.  Any sentimental old woman talk of slaughtering civilians shows a weakness of moral fortitude and lack of mental aptitude.

Originally posted by Laelius The Japanese had mobilizied the entire population to fight off the invaders.  Those families you speak of would have faced the American army with rifles and whatever tools and farming implements they could find, lets not forget the willingness of Japanese civilians to commit suicide at Okinawa by throwing themselves off the cliffs.  You think the Atomic Bomings were bad?  Just imagine uncountable waves of Japanese old men women and children armed with vintage rifles, spears and shovels charging headlong into the tanks, machine guns and artillery of an American army.

Im sorry, but both of you are horribly wrong.

Actually, the majority of the Japenese population was appealing to their government to work out peace negotiations with the Americans. The only people who believed in the Japanese cause at this time were the Japanese militants who were running the country (they are the ones who believed the Japanese should fight down to the last person). What you stated was the propaganda the American government used to drop the bomb. The Japanese actually sent requests to the Americans to set up peace talks.

Roosevelt was the President who was in power when the Japanese sent the peace requests. Roosevelt drew up a plan for the Japanese surrender, and in which he stated that the Japanese were able to keep their emperor after they surrendered (they viewed their emperor as a divine being). Roosevelt died, and when Truman took over, he was not a good decision-maker, and thus he was heavily influenced by 3 men: Henry L. Stimson (anti-communist), General Leslie Groves (in charge of the Atom Bomb project), and Secretary of State James F. Byrnes (anti-communist). Byrnes is the one who convinced Truman to take out Article 12 of the peace negotiations with Japan, which meant that if Japan surrendered, they were not allowed to keep their emperor.

The Americans were to meet with the Japanese in the peace talks in a city called Potsdam. Truman delayed the Potsdam negotiations for months, and scheduled it to take place on July 17th 1945. On July 16th, one day before the conference, the U.S. had the "Trinity Test" in Alamogordo, New Mexico in which they tested the Atomic Bomb. In the Potsdam conference Truman (under the influence of Sec. of State Byrnes) removed Article 12 which meant the Japanese could not keep their emperor if they surrendered. They had tested the bomb one day earlier, and the results were better than anything they imagined, and so they did not feel they needed to negotiate with the Japanese, which is why they gave the Japanese an ultimatum, not a peace gesture.

To sum it up, here are the 2 views on the Bombing of Japan:

Traditional:

1. Japan would not surrender
2. U.S. had "no options", and they either had to:
a. Drop the Nuke
b. Invade Japan costing 500,000-1,000,000 American lives

New Scholarship since 1965, with the release of declassified documents and the major players in the incident coming forward:

1. Japanese were deeply divided, tilted toward surrender, only needed a pretext to surrender.

2. U.S. had options:
a. Work with the peace faction in Japan (overwhelming majority of the population)
b. Get USSR to join Pacific War (which they did 2 months before Roosevelt died, in Feb. of 1945)
c. Tell Japanese they could keep their emperor (stated in Article 12 of the Potsdam treaty, which Truman removed).


The governmental reason that the United States had for dropping the Nukes was because they wanted the Japanese to formally surrender to the U.S., and not the USSR, so that the U.S. would be in charge of the post-war reconstruction of Japan, keeping it out of Communist hands.

From 1858 until WWII, the Japanese economy and trade was dominated by U.S. business. In 1858, Japan had enjoyed nearly a century of self-sufficiency, and its trade was closed to all nations. The United States Navy came to Japan in 1858 (Japan did not have a navy or an army at this time), and the U.S. basically told Japan that if they dont open their trade to the U.S., that they would basically blow them away. The Japanese had no choice but to let the U.S. take over their trade. This was known as the U.S.-Japan Treaty of Amity and Commerce, which is one of the treaties now known as the "Unequal Treaties".

The Treaty Stated:

-exchange of diplomatic agents

-opening of various ports to U.S. sailors

-ability of U.S. citizens to live and trade in those ports

-fixed low import/export duties

-extraterritoriality for U.S. citizens

The U.S. was in charge of deciding who Japan could trade with and who they could not trade with, a MAJOR disrespect and international humiliation for the Japanese. Their economy was stagnated by American intervention and policies, and thus during WWII, because of the need for resources and to prevent economic collapse, the Japanese bombed the MILITARY BASE at Pearl Harbor. Everything after this, i have explained above. There you go, the dirty truth of the Bombing of Japan.




Edited by ArmenianSurvival

Originally posted by Maju Originally posted by Illuminati A-bombs: 2 cities destroyed Invasion: Whole nation destroyed you do the math............. This is a deceitful proposition. Negotiation: no one destroyed. My maths are much better.

Do you know nothing of history? The Japanese government was internally deadlocked. The war would have gone on. The Allies were going to invade one way or the other. They had already started assigning US Army units to re-deploy to the Pacific after Germany fell. Negotiations would ahve gone nowhere. The military leaders in Japan were not going to give in. Heck! They didn't even give in after hiroshima. Their resolve only got stronger, and the deadlock only worsened.

Dropping atomic bombs was better than an invasion in every way. It killed a less number of civilians than an invasion would have and saved the lives of tens of thousands of Allied Soldiers, which in my opinion was the most important thing. And lets not forget that the entire Japanese military was fanatical. They didn't surrender.

The Japanese military wanted nothing to do with surrender. And as history has shown...........the Japanese military was just as powerful as the emperor. The emperor could have made an appeal for negotiations, but the military didn't care what Hirohito did, Hirohito was not solely in command of Japan anymore............thats why negotiations would have only drug the war out longer.

Drop A-Bombs: 2 cities destroyed

Invasion: Whole Nation destroyed

Start negotiations: War rages on for months. Japanese Military refuses to give in. Allies invade.


Edited by Illuminati

Originally posted by Thegeneral Originally posted by Decebal Go on some websites from around the world: the BBC, the CBC, if you don't speak any other language but English. BBC, lol, yeah right!  I would trust Nazi propaganda more than that!

 

BBC is by far the most objective and ubaised news source I have ever seen.  It shames any American news network.  It also talks about the entire world wheras American news networks will ignore a major event in a foreign country and opt instead to talk about Micheal Jackson or other irrelevant crap.

The worst President would have to be the most overated John F. kennedy.

Had his private life hit the headlines he would have been impeached and removed from office.

He had a sexial relationship with a communist spy from the U.S.S.R and then had the girl deported when she was called to testify before congress. blatant abuse of power.

More than any president he pushed the world to the brink of full scale nuclear war over missles in Cuba while just a few years later the Soviets were deploying subs off our coast with more warheads than had been in Cuba.

Was a drug addict who was using cocain and other drug enjections to sooth his back problems. Something that was illegal even then.

Mislead the people about the exstent of his health problems. Chances are had he lived he would have died within 10 years.

Was the only president since Hebert hoover not to sign any civil rights legislation into law. 

Avoided civil rights in order not to alienate southern "Dixiecrats"

Opened the door to Vietnam and laid the foundation for full scale American involvement.

I think the only thing Kennedy did to help the nation was to ride around Dallas, Texas in an opened topped limo.

His brother Bobby also did us a favor by walking through the Kitchen in 68.

His Son John Kennedy J.R was a high flying dare devil air ace until he ran into the ground.  

Ever notice that Kennedys die at a faster rate than anybody else ?

The only reason why Kennedy is so loved yet never did anything as President is he was killed before his lies and coverups came to light. Had Gerald Ford died even he would have been called a "Great President."

As far as dropping the atomic bombs. At the time they were considered as just another weapon to be used. We did

Had Japan surrendered when they should have before we dropped them the whole issue would be mute.

Japan was a defeated nation by late 1944 and like the nazis refused to seee it.

Japan used bio and chemical weapons on China in 1930s and killed more Chinese than Hitler killed Jews.  Ever heard of the Rape of Nanking?

Japan should have known better than to attack the biggest economic and industrial power in the world. America built more ships planes and tanks in World War 2 than all the world combind.

I myself believe that dropping the bombs did more for world peace than anything before or since. No nation on earth has since used nuclear weapons in an armed conflict.

We could and should have fought the war Japan wanted to fight and dropped enough atomic bombs to have eraced the japenese race from the face of the planet.

YOU LOST GET OVER IT!

 

Edited by blake79

No need to respond to the Nazi.

But in general, i agree JFK wasnt a such a wonderful president. He smoked pot in the oval office with one of his girlfriends (her name is in a book i have, currently letting my friend borrow it). Not that i have anything against smoking pot (), but thats probably the best thing he did as president. He was just put under unusual circumstances (only Catholic president, got assassinated, rumors about being with Monroe ), but its rare you hear anything that he did as president...oh, besides Vietnam . His V.P. Johnson was no academy award winner, either.


Edited by ArmenianSurvival