Islamic conquest

"We never slaughtered Arabs, maybe Mongols did. But we arent MONGOLS, and we acted Arabs like our brothers through history. Turks werent slaughters and didnt torture Arabs, nor any other nation throughout history. Turks dont hate Arabs, but maybe Arabs hate us. We dont hate any nation because our culture isnt built upon hatred or slaughtering, it is build upon the beliefs of honor, courage and justice... Your beliefs are too full of hatred and dont represent the common ideas of Turks."

Really? How do you explain Jemal Pasha then? And what the Turks did to the Armenian brothers? And the Kurdish brothers? And how about the Bloodletter? They killed the Christians in Mount Lebanon and made chuches into brothels and offices and raped Arab women. The Turks acted like fascists when they killed the Arabs, Armenians and continue to with the Kurds. They have gotten a free ride from dealing with their satanic and hateful, baby and woman killing ways before Attatuk and probably to this day with the Kurds that they subjugate. Why does Turkey strive to be European but refuses to accept the idea of human rights and diginity and admiting to murderous and degrading behaviors? The Turkish empire was a disgraceful one and the Young Turks degraded the Turkish nation even more with their rampages. The Ottoman times were a stain on the Arab nation and the Turkish one respectively. I am glad there is no more Turk rule in the Arab lands because at least it is us doing it to ourselves and not some evil racialist foreigner who thinks he is superior to us. How do you say the Turks are not violent when history shows the polar opposite? I am not saying the Arabs are not violent or perfect or that anyone else is, but surely to be saying the Turks are not in their history slaughtering Arabs and other nations you must be on something special.

You do not know much about Ataturk.

1)      Ataturk didn�t say that Quran must be read in Turkish in the prayers. Today in Turkey in every mosques the prayers are in Arabic and original.  Only for a limited period of time Ezan which is not a part of Quran was in Turkish but now it is in Arabic again. I wonder where you get your informations about Turkey and Ataturk.

2)      He did not say something that Allah must be in Turkish. We are using Tanri and Allah as synonyms. While reading Quran in Arabic we say Allah not Tanri. But in daily life borth words are in use. They are the same thing.

3)      Alphabet change was not something related with �to be advanced� but to be useful and practical. It is easier to write with Latin script and we designed a new alphabet. It was also a symbol for a new age apart from religious dogmas in education and science. It was the symbol of spread of religion and politics too. You have to think that religion is abused for political purposes and this had given enormous harms to religion and society. 

Praying in mother langue is an ongoing discussion in Turkey during nearly 100 years. I am in favor of using Turkish that is all. Or in mosques imams must be free about the language that they want to use. Alevis in Turkey use Turkish mostly while praying, some sects use music. We are Muslims, we believe in Quran and Muhammed. The way you pray is only a detail for me. But we have a great respect to mosque and we do not eat food inside as you do or do not talk as you are in a coffe house.

There was not a hate of Arabs in Ataturk as much as we know but he was not very happy about what he lived at the front Philistine. It is a fact that Arabs who had revolted in alliances with westerners (as you say) have been chosen as the new leaders of new born Arab countries by westerners and especially by England.  And they have established Israel. Now you are very angry to Israel and America. You love England. But you do not like Turks and Ataturk. Why?

Do you have a tape record about Prophet�s speech? No.

But some people who are supposed to be reliable report that �Prophet did this�, �Prophet said this�.  How much reliable?

Sorry I cannot accept this. Otherwise I may accept �another religion�, which was not put in Quran. I can misunderstood Quran which could be easily forgiven by Allah, I believe. But if I represent and believe in something which is not in Quran and I represent it as �this is Islam� this cannot be forgiven I think. I only look at Quran.

I do not know.

You are saying that there are no waste of meat.

Where do you send those meats? There are huge amount of meat that cannot be consumed by poor Arabs that can be found in and around Mekke and even Saudi Arabia. Can you please give us some info about it?

People who went there were saying the contrary in fact.

Please do not waste those meats and send them to the poor people of all around the world.

People were dying from hunger in Ethiopia and Sudan. Just look at the map. They are your neighbours. Would you be able to send them some help?

Those places are holy lands which belong to all Muslims.

You said that �these lands are Arabic and no one is able to serve it as we are doing�.

Yes you are right. You serve your lands for American troops to bomb Iraq. Congragulations!!! Well done�  But Ataturk�s Turkey has refused 30 billions of US aid and we did not sell our honor.  Is it said so in Quran? You were following Quran as usual I think.

We are saying that Turkey is not ruled by Sheriat. You are saying that we are an Islamic country ruled by Sheriat. But Turks are doing right thing, act honestly even if we are not considering Quran into account in politics. On the other hand you are as being landowners of holy lands and followers of Sheriat are in service to bomb Iraqi people. Aren�t they Arabs?

Be honest man, be honest!!

Very sad!!!! Clear influence of angel France on Algerians. Is it because of this? French has raised a new generation with full of hate towards Turks. Armenians are brothers. Kurds are brothers but Turks are enemy, disgusting people!!!!! Very well. So you will celebrate Kurdish state in Iraq built on an Arab country. Your brothers Kurds were quit well attacking to Iraqis and serving in American army�� In future you will blame Turks again I think since you know snakes as batterfly.

What do you think about France? Allez les Bleu, allez les bleu !!!!

Were they teaching you how many millions of Algerians France killed? How did they imposed French language and education on you? Even your name is Emile but you consider yourself Arab. I think you are a Christian. Are you a converted by French? 

When I was in England the big earthquake happened in Turkey of 7.9 richter scale. We wanted to organize a help campaign. But we have learnt that some Arabs has said �Allah wished to penalize them since they are ruled by non-Islam government. Do not give anything to Turkey�. I know that any Arab helped. But they were good with British government.

I wish you a very bright future my brothers. Go on.   

There may be some killings but I do not know what events you are talking about. I wonder if Lebaneses suffered after or before Turkish rule. I want you to make a comparaison. How many people have died in internal war in Lebanon inflicted by westerners? If you are so blind that you can not see this I have nothing to say to you. 

What is Bloodletter?

Me too. Stay away from us as much as possible. We cannot deal with bunch of people who has been educated by racists, fascists Frenchmen.

Bravo to France. You are a creature of this bustard country. 

They say so. You are a parrot.

Ask to people who have lost their lives in internal war, if they could answer to you.

"if you are banned, then you are banned and you cant do anything toward that. and these land are not owned by anybody these land now are under the Saudis Athority.

also the Ummayad Caliphate was much larger than the Ottoman and from that first empires Islam spreaded. you was part of it.

and according to my knowlege tuks are always treated as muslims and Good people that what is wirtten in our History teaching books. i guess the hate is in your books.

i respect Turkish people but i dont see many of them self respecting their religion and history."

No. There is no hatred between Turks and Arabs. But as I hear from some people going "Haj" and visiting Arabic countries, and the common image of Arabs are not friendly with Turks at all. Turks dont have any hatred against any nation. Only dissappointment about some...

"Really? How do you explain Jemal Pasha then? And what the Turks did to the Armenian brothers? And the Kurdish brothers? And how about the Bloodletter? They killed the Christians in Mount Lebanon and made chuches into brothels and offices and raped Arab women. The Turks acted like fascists when they killed the Arabs, Armenians and continue to with the Kurds. They have gotten a free ride from dealing with their satanic and hateful, baby and woman killing ways before Attatuk and probably to this day with the Kurds that they subjugate. Why does Turkey strive to be European but refuses to accept the idea of human rights and diginity and admiting to murderous and degrading behaviors? The Turkish empire was a disgraceful one and the Young Turks degraded the Turkish nation even more with their rampages. The Ottoman times were a stain on the Arab nation and the Turkish one respectively. I am glad there is no more Turk rule in the Arab lands because at least it is us doing it to ourselves and not some evil racialist foreigner who thinks he is superior to us. How do you say the Turks are not violent when history shows the polar opposite? I am not saying the Arabs are not violent or perfect or that anyone else is, but surely to be saying the Turks are not in their history slaughtering Arabs and other nations you must be on something special."

Raped Arab women?

Itt�had ve Terakki was a nationalistic an modernizing political union who saved the Turks from a total collapse. Ottomans were a gift to Arabs. They developed Arabic language and derived useful words for you. They protected Arabs from the Christians and invasion. They united all Muslims under their rule and didnt differ Arabs from Turkmens. And even treated Arabs better, since both of these nations were Muslim, and the nations were differed as Muslim- Gayri Muslim, not as Turkmens, Arabs, Armenians in political era.

And I am fed up with discussing the "fake genocide" issues against some rebellious minorities on some forums on web. Our culture isnt raping and torturing like you said, it is for some of othe 32 nations which became independent after the fall of Ottoman Empire. But if to blame some "needed but hard" actions made by some late Ottoman leading groups such as the ones I mentioned before, judge them by the conditions of those times and the actions of those rebellious groups against others. Women and baby killings? What are you talkinf about? The "fake genocide" issue again?

You are glad there is no more Turkish rule on Arabs anymore? Really? Well, in fact, there wasnt a real Turkish rule on them since the Seljuk times, because Ottomans cannot be described as a pure Turkish heritage and culture. But to mension the current situation of Arabs are even worse than the times before Islam. Look at these countries which are from the same heritage and cannot support each other, led by European powers, somekind of Western petrol colonies, and even helping tose westerners to torture another Arabic country? Look at those Arabs who can still speak about torturing other nations when they murder Kurds and Turkmens with biological bombs. Look at those once loyal Muslims who demolish the Ottoman mosques in their current borders. Look at those once bedouins fighting with dear Lawrance of Arabs against their padishah. But the Ottoman times were kind of a stain for Turkmen history, but a gift for Arab existance.

Some of the Turkish people could be trying to be European, but not all of us. Being modernized isnt equal to being European, as Ataturk thought us...

"The young Turks and Ittihad ve Terakki were Mason servants. You can't even consider them as "Turks". Ottomans were a gift to Arabs. They developed Arabic language and derived useful words for you. They protected Arabs from the Christians and invasion. They united all Muslims under their rule and didnt differ Arabs from Turkmens. And even treated Arabs better, since both of these nations were Muslim, and the nations were differed as Muslim- Gayri Muslim, not as Turkmens, Arabs, Armenians in political era. "

The Turks terrorized the Arabs Mount Lebanon and Syria. The ARab nation is not Muslim btw. THis is an incorrect assumption popularized by Muslim fanatics/religio-centrists. The Turks massacred Christian Arabs as late as the 1900s! "Protected" us? Maybe from the Maronites and their French allies but this is about it.

"And I am fed up with discussing the "fake genocide" issues against some rebellious minorities on some forums on web. But believe me, your Armenian and Kurdish brothers' are only baby masked murderers. Our culture isnt raping and torturing like you said, it is for some of othe 32 nations which became independent after the fall of Ottoman Empire. But if to blame some "needed but hard" actions made by some late Ottoman leading groups such as the ones I mentioned before, judge them by the conditions of those times and the actions of those rebellious groups against others. Women and baby killings? What are you talkinf about? The "fake genocide" issue again?"

Fake genocide?!!?! These are not "necisary" murders! You are saying it fine to massacre women, children, old people for being different from you?! IT is fine to massacre them because they are not Muslim!? There is not a nation on earth but the Turkish one that deneyies the fact that the Ottoman Turks murdered Lord knows howmany numbers of Armenians, Kurds and Arab Christians when they ruled them as colonial overlords.

"Look at these countries which are from the same heritage and cannot support each other, led by European powers, somekind of Western petrol colonies, and even helping tose westerners to torture another Arabic country? Look at those Arabs who can still speak about torturing other nations when they murder Kurds and Turkmens with biological bombs. Look at those once loyal Muslims who demolish the Ottoman mosques in their current borders. Look at those once bedouins fighting with dear Lawrance of Arabs against their padishah. But the Ottoman times were kind of a stain for Turkmen history, but a gift for Arab existance."

I rejoice any time I hear of the ugly Ottoman mosques and buildings being destroyed. It is purification. At least we Arabs do not deney and lie about genocide. Yes, Arabs killed Kurds, Persians and Turkomen in Iraq and Syria. This is a fact and it cannot be deneyed. At least we have the dignity to admit when our leaders do what is wrong and take responsiblity. UNlike the lying Turkish government which still does not all the Kurds to speak their language! A war against Turkish domination using a Briton who is sympathetic to the Arab cause as the means to liberation is more noble than allowing ourselves to rot under the domination and rape of a Turkish fool. And to use Americans to liberate an Arab state from a fascist is more noble than letting it witheraway at the hands of stupid, meglomaniac of a dictator. What? You want three cheers for Saddam Hussien al Tikriti?! The man who calls Turks as having no culture? Who calls Turks second hand Arabs? Yes! Let the Arabs have this as a leader! He is the next Abu Bakr!! What a wonderful man al-Tikriti is! Get real!

"Some of the Turkish people could be trying to be European, but not all of us. The ones who try to make us enemies with Kurds know that we are brothers and the real Kurds are living with us peacefully, or are lied by some seperatist western supported terrorist and fighting his brothers in mountains. Did you know even Syria and some other Arabic countries supplied sources for them to be a problem for Turkish and kill their so called "Muslim brothers"? The ones who deny their violent history are Arabs, who heard that Turkish soldiers had gold, but they ate it to hide them from Arabs, and cut Turks to find and get those pieces of gold, which were only English lies, enough to make Arabs murder a Muslim soldier fighting to protect the Islamic unification. Well, take off your masks and show your real faces to world instead of being more trecharous with every new sins you are comitting..."

Oh grow up. It is good destablize a racialist regime such as your own. The Kurds deserve liberty and to speak their language, not colonial rape by the Turks. It is better to be poor and responsible for yourself than to be rich and have to be controled by someone else. you talk of Islamic unification but your bootleg Ottoman empire could not even maintain itself from Britain taking its lands and had to reley on Europeans to be proped up only because they wanted a buffer.

 "It seems funny how everybody not a Turk has an intense feeling on who is a Turk and how they either respect or vilify them. Maybe one day the Arabs will have the objectivity to look at themselves and grow in the process. Respecting religion is a personal and a public thing. Mimicking others' ways of doing relligion is not behavior I charish. But if your too liberal, someone is bound to criticize. "

The Turks did not respect religion. Arab look at themselves objective but some do not. THe Turks on this forum are not looking at their racialist, sectarian Ottoman Raping Empire objectively. They are spouting the same, holocaust deneying, racist "Kurds are Turks" and "be greatful to us for ruling you and raping your mothers and daughters and stealing your sons for our mediocre military" lines that the Turkish state puts out. Why is Turkey not accepted as European? Not because its Muslim; but because it is just as backward as most Arab states. It is quasi authoritarian, disrespectful of human rights, minority rights and refuses to face history like a civilized nation would. IT lacks the polical maturity for the EU and the posters here show this with glaring obviousness. I do not profess to call the Arab the most advanced people. We have many problems but the Turks are a whole different problem on their own.

To say that the Arabs were better off in the days of Jahaliya is just rediculous. After being muslims they gained immeasurable wealth, land and religion.  Enough said. The plight of the current state of Arab affairs has to do with a lack of international economy and lack of international corporations run by Arabs. Oil money spent on extremism does not pay good dividends.

How could their be a genocide when Turks were the main victims? Look at the excile of Turks from all lost Ottoman lands and one can see a history of suffering at the hands of Christian states. Russia, Bulgaria, Greece, Serbia, Armenia all caused immense suffering for the Turkish Ottoman civic population.  Or does one believe the Turks acted in a vacuum when they themselves moved ethnic populations, guilty of treason, from war zones for the sole reason that Turks are bad people.

Last I checked, the Kurds are Turkish citizens. They are in all walks of life, from the military to high political offices. Of course they are not allowed to keep forming anti republic parties. The southestern part of Turkey is a watershed. Not many businesses want to open up shop there. Not many teachers want to teach there. Should we blame the republic or look at the PKK as having a say in terrorizing the area. Sure the military did fight the terrorists. Sure many Kurds of the southeast were innocently part of the collateral damage. Yet so too were innocent Kurds who did not tow the PKK party line and were therefore eliminated by their own blood brothers.

Yeah! -You had religion before Islam. Where did it go? Perhaps you long for the days of paganism and idol worship.  -Not only did "it" bring the Ottomans but also a multitude of Islamic empires. Why you so fixated on the Ottomans? Were they the only Islamic empire? I don't think so.

Boutros says:

They moved "Muslims" not Turks. And they traded them for "Christians". The Turks MURDERED THE ARMENIANS, KURDS AND ARAB CHRISTIANS. This cannot be debated. It is proven by surviors who witnessed it and physical evidence. How can there have be a holocaust when Germans were moved from Poland and Czechloslovakia? Again a weak response. The Turkish leaders murdered innocent people for no reason other than they were different. You cannot deney a first hand account. My great grandmother saw it. IT is documented in Lebanon that Turks ran about raping, pillaging and defiling the Mountain because they "could". I will not say Turks are bad people. They cannot be collectively judged. But Young Turks are fascist murderous life haters. They deflied Mount Lebanon and they brought shame on the Turkish nation. This cannot be denied.

____________________________________________________________ ___________________

Now the ones that were moved were moslems but not Turks? That is what you write. How do you know such nonsense? By your irrefutable witnesses? Yet Turks were living in all parts of the Ottoman Empire and were collectively moslem. Interesting discrepancy in your observations. Who traded them for Christians and when? I suppose all those refugees that form the ancestry of much of Turkey, moved into Anatolia for no apparent reason other than a "trade". Or could it be because they were refugees in excile looking for a haven from oppression. Oppression from those whose confiscated their lands and could care less what belongings they owned. Tell that to most of the Turks from the Rumeli provinces and the Caucasian provinces of the Ottoman Empire that sought the safety of Anatolia. Soldiers do the fighting. Governments and gangs do the expulsions.

Dude, I'm debating you, so I guess it could be debated!!! Your simplistic logic is so distorted that your arguements look pathetic.  You even highlight your statement with capitol lettering to sensationalize its meaning then you cite that your proof cannot be debated. -Do you have first hand accounts of your allegations? Or are they just allegations from someone else that you chose to borrow? I also wonder if Turks have "first hand" accounts of the RAPING, and Murder brought upon them by your innocent ancestors!

When a college grad gets appointed to a school in the southeast as a teacher or assistant, it is a move that is fraught with hazzards. But the southeast still gets the teachers. Nobody is neglected. It's the law. Maybe you could give them a helping hand. Your politics and economic knowhow would come as a great relief for the area!

You have the American flag. America recognizes the genocide, there are pictures, thousands of sourcees, and accounts of the people who actually lived through it. How is this all fake then..

i thought i replied here but i didnt so here is my replay.

well what i write is what i know, also Adhan or Ezan as you write it was changed to Turkish at that period of time under whos order?

also Allah is the Name of God and and it meant God before Islam but the Word "Rub" means God but it is not the name of God.

so in Islam the name of God is Allah and there are 99 names mentioned in the Quran.

it is easier to write with latin script! then that means the Alphabet the Turkish were using before the "Changes" are Harder to learn?

or you are admitting or assuming that Turkish are not smart enough to learn two or more Alphabets?

i dont think that was the reason for this change. and it is not logical.

if it was right  then the Persians and the Chinese and the Japanese and the Indians and many more would changed their Alphabet to Latin because it is easier and more suited.

oh then i missassumed that Turkish are Praying in Turkish, i didnt know that people like you are minority and the correct and the only way of praying is the majority practiced in Turkey.

and give me please more details about we "eating and talking in the mosque like Coffe shop".

as i said before dont consider JORDEN as all Arabs and that part jorden and which revolted against you and that is not all Arabic areas.

also leaders of the Gulf Arab countries are not chosen by the british. these people are Sheikhs who ruled parts of this land centuries before the British arrive to the gulf.

also i dont "Love" England  as you said . also dont compare minority of people living out side as all Arabs.

then how come you consider the Quran as the  correct one? do you have a tape record about the Prophet PBUH reading the Quran?

also Hadiths' sources were checked many times over the years and thousands of hadiths were considered weak and thousands were considered correct 100%. 

meat or money for it is sent to Africa every year on the time of Eead AL-Adh'ha

and i think it could be common that the meat in Makka are more becouse there are more than 2 million people . so i guess there is not much time to send or organise the meat distribution to other places.

UAE didnt participate in that war nor did Saudi Arabia. the only Arabic countries who helped the US were Kuwait, Qatar and Jorden maybe.

Ataturk's Turkey helped the US and also Ataturk's Turkey prefered Saddam for what he was doing to the Kurds.

iam Honest

i didnt say we are ruled by Sheriat no body is .

also i dont know if "Turks are doing right thing, act honestly even if we are not considering Quran into account in politics" i dont think many will agree on that.

and about the War against Iraq  as i said only three Arabic countries participated on that war and Saudi Arabia whos the Holylands in it  is not one of these three.