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sovietsniper View Drop Down
Janissary
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Posts: 28 		  Quote sovietsniper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: have i got news for you
    Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 08:55
my freinds, sinece the day you were born you have been told lies concerning capitilism and the true nature of communism. i have i few points to make.
1, the tactics used by lennin from 1917 to his death in 1924 was not a part of some bolshivic holocaust but tactics used by combatints in many civel wars. in fact lennin had to be convinced not to abolish the death penillity.
2, the "democratic" states you belive as being good and for the people are imperilist and act in the interst of capitillists. the countrys of britan and america are millitary exploting iraq and are joined by others like france and germany in economiclly exploting the 3rd would
3, the soviet union was not a true representathion of communism as visuliged my marx and engals. it was turned into a state-imperillist country by the need to trade with capitilist states. this need was brung about by stalins idiea of socilism in one country. this meant that revoulithions that could have brung about communist trading partners were abondend

www.freepeoplesmovement.org/ills.html
shourt article on why capitilism is bad for everyone but capitilists.

www.marxists.org/archive/.../1936-rev/
why the soviet union wasnt communist

www.soviet-empire.com/
communist forum
victory to russia
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Thegeneral View Drop Down
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Posts: 1117 		  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 09:02
Mods, please just delete this or shoot me!!
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baracuda View Drop Down
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Posts: 722 		  Quote baracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 09:10
Ну и ты меня смешил "sovietsniper"..аууу не спи!!.. (you made me laugh "..", auu, dont sleep)


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Paul View Drop Down
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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 11:24
This is utterly ridiculous, next you'll be saying the west supported the Taliban in Iran, trained Kmere Rouge terrorists in Cambodia and supported murderous fascist dictators in latin America.
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Yiannis View Drop Down
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Posts: 2329 		  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 12:10

Originally posted by Paul

next you'll be saying the west supported the Taliban in Iran, trained Kmere Rouge terrorists in Cambodia and supported murderous fascist dictators in latin America.

 

 

Seriously now, what SovietSniper is saying is, of course, the truth in it's simplicity.

 
The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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Thegeneral View Drop Down
Chieftain
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Posts: 1117 		  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 13:15
Originally posted by Yiannis

Seriously now, what SovietSniper is saying is, of course, the truth in it's simplicity.

Hardly!
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Zagros View Drop Down
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 13:27

Originally posted by sovietsniper

my freinds, sinece the day you were born you have been told lies concerning capitilism and the true nature of communism. i have i few points to make.
1, the tactics used by lennin from 1917 to his death in 1924 was not a part of some bolshivic holocaust but tactics used by combatints in many civel wars. in fact lennin had to be convinced not to abolish the death penillity.

True.


2, the "democratic" states you belive as being good and for the people are imperilist and act in the interst of capitillists. the countrys of britan and america are millitary exploting iraq and are joined by others like france and germany in economiclly exploting the 3rd would

True.


3, the soviet union was not a true representathion of communism as visuliged my marx and engals. it was turned into a state-imperillist country by the need to trade with capitilist states. this need was brung about by stalins idiea of socilism in one country. this meant that revoulithions that could have brung about communist trading partners were abondend

True.


 
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Zagros View Drop Down
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 13:29
the perfect in-between is controlled capitalism and controlled socialism.
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hugoestr View Drop Down
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Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 13:43
I agree with Yiannis. They are true in their most basic sense, but they hide the complexities of Soviet Communism.

If I am not mistaken, all three points have already been discussed here more in depth and more subtly, minus the links to Marxist sites.

One more comment: this is one of the saddest propaganda texts that I have ever seen. For some reason many Marxists use this doomed technique, but let me help you here: telling people that they are ignorant doesn't win you converts. It insults readers, and they react the way they have in this thread.

There are a number of neo-nazi propaganda pieces in our site. Not by our regular members, but by recruiters, just like you. Their pieces are better as propaganda. Look at those and learn from them. Then come back with something more effective.

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Thegeneral View Drop Down
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Posts: 1117 		  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 13:49

Originally posted by sovietsniper

2, the "democratic" states you belive as being good and for the people are imperilist and act in the interst of capitillists. the countrys of britan and america are millitary exploting iraq and are joined by others like france and germany in economiclly exploting the 3rd would

Wrong!  May I ask why democratic is in quotes?  We are democratic whther the mindless like it or not!  We are not imperialist and for you to even think so in utter insanity.  The same goes for us exploiting Iraq.  Could you give an example?  NO!!  You can't!

Now how are we exploiting the third world?  Is it our fault they have more corrupt governments than even our currupted governments?  I suppose it is our fault they all live in poverty?  Should we just give everything to them because it is our fault?  Is it our fault we worked hard to achieve our place in the world?  GOOD GRIEF MAN!  Get over your sad self!


3, the soviet union was not a true representathion of communism as visuliged my marx and engals. it was turned into a state-imperillist country by the need to trade with capitilist states. this need was brung about by stalins idiea of socilism in one country. this meant that revoulithions that could have brung about communist trading partners were abondend

The soviet union was not a true representation of communism, that is true.  But the reason it was not is because absolute power corrupts absolutly.  Communism, in theory, is a good form of government.  As are dictatorships.  A strong army and strong government run by one person.  Sound good, doesn't work because we are humans!  But to blame the corrupt government of the USSR on capitilism is stupidity in its purest form!

www.freepeoplesmovement.org/ills.html
shourt article on why capitilism is bad for everyone but capitilists.

www.marxists.org/archive/.../1936-rev/
why the soviet union wasnt communist

www.soviet-empire.com/
communist forum

I could believe capitilizm is bad for everyone who is not in a capitalist country.  But is it our fault if they are not capitilst and propserous?  We became capilalist, why can't others?

The Soviet was Communist, just not a true communism because POWER CORRUPTS.

A commie forum?!  Oh goodness!

*Mods, forgive my bluntness.  I am pretty miffed off right now, to say the least*
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Styrbiorn View Drop Down
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Posts: 2810 		  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 13:56
Originally posted by sovietsniper

2, the "democratic" states you belive as being good and for the people are imperilist and act in the interst of capitillists. the countrys of britan and america are millitary exploting iraq and are joined by others like france and germany in economiclly exploting the 3rd would


This is just nonsense. If the West wouldn't invest in the 3rd world and buy their resources, they'd be in even deeper sh*t than they are. Don't blame the succesful for the failure of others.


Soviet was not a good example of communism, true, but that doesn't mean communism is a good thing. Maybe there is a reason all attempts of creating a communist society have failed..
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Mortaza View Drop Down
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Posts: 3711 		  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 14:07

This is just nonsense. If the West wouldn't invest in the 3rd world and buy their resources, they'd be in even deeper sh*t than they are. Don't blame the succesful for the failure of others.

we cannot say, If at history. But we know because you take their resources(you invented for this resources, the first foregein investments are tool of emperalism), they are in sh*t.

If you didnt buy this sources, It is another question and I dont think we can answer this.

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Paul View Drop Down
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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 14:17

Originally posted by Styrbiorn

Originally posted by sovietsniper

2, the "democratic" states you belive as being good and for the people are imperilist and act in the interst of capitillists. the countrys of britan and america are millitary exploting iraq and are joined by others like france and germany in economiclly exploting the 3rd would


This is just nonsense. If the West wouldn't invest in the 3rd world and buy their resources, they'd be in even deeper sh*t than they are. Don't blame the succesful for the failure of others.

 

Actually the west doesn't have to invest a penny in the third world, just trade with it as equals. If the west did this the third world would kick it's butt in a free market.

So much so the west imposes tariffs and quotas on third world economies, to restrict trade with them. Communist economics live on, it's just changed it's name to global capitalism, the Communist Party the IMF  and the Polit Beuro G8.



Edited by Paul
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Tobodai View Drop Down
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Posts: 4310 		  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 16:15
Lets ask th emillions of dead Ukranians what they think about government managed economies...oh wait, we cant!
"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
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Styrbiorn View Drop Down
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Posts: 2810 		  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 17:01
Originally posted by Mortaza


we cannot say, If at history. But we know because you take their resources(you invented for this resources, the first foregein investments are tool of emperalism), they are in sh*t.


If you didnt buy this sources, It is another question and I dont think we can answer this.


We're not talking history, we're talking present. If the West would suddenly stop buying African resources, their economy would close to collapse. You can hardly blame the West for the level of corruption and tribal wars that stops further development in many African countries. The only ones who can pull Africa up is the African themselves. Sure, getting rid of tariffs would help, but the African nations are not the only one with trade tariffs on, and it would still not magically turn Africa into a developed continent. I'm getting tired of the 'it's all the fault of the West' mantra.

Edited by Styrbiorn
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Thegeneral View Drop Down
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Posts: 1117 		  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 17:43

How can you people possibly blame capitalism for other peoples problems?!  To say that we are the cause of all corruption, death, and poverty in the third world countries is nuts! 

This is just another way for you to blame the west and specifically America.
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Guests View Drop Down
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 18:53
Originally posted by Tobodai

Lets ask th emillions of dead Ukranians what they think about government managed economies...oh wait, we cant!

I don't think the famines in the Ukraine during Stalin's rule was caused by economic mismanagement. It was deliberately caused by Stalin, he could have avoided it if he wanted to. Blaming the deaths in the Ukraine on government managed economy is like blaming the deaths of the Irish potato famine on laissez faire capitalism.
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Illuminati View Drop Down
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Posts: 949 		  Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 20:29
I love reminding communists the fact that Communism is responsible for far more deaths in the 20th century than Fascism is. They get so angry lol.

It just goes to show that political extremes are dangerous. Fascism and Communism are plagues on society.

Another problem with Communists is that they come off as angry and confrontational. The communist protests I have seen involve them yelling and coming across in very angry ways. Not to mention the group had pictures of AK-47's on their shirts next to the word "revolution." This kind of protesting only makes people feel threatened and turns people against you.


Edited by Illuminati
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Constantine XI View Drop Down
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Posts: 5711 		  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 22:06
sovietsniper is essentially making a correct point. What happened in the revolution did not occur because Marxist doctrine required it to, but simply because the imperatives of civil war made it necessary and because top revolutionary officials deemed it necessary. We can much more easily lay blame on top Politburo individuals (especially such men as Stalin and Dzerzinsky) than on the economic framework proposed by Marx.
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Posts: 636 		  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 23:29
Originally posted by Paul

This is utterly ridiculous, next you'll be saying the west supported the Taliban in Iran, trained Kmere Rouge terrorists in Cambodia and supported murderous fascist dictators in latin America.


actually the Taliban got 53 million dollars from the US gov't in 96

and the Al-Quada leader Osama got 6 billion dollars form the US gov't from 1989 to 1992
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