Komnenos avatar

Thanks Temujin, for trying to bring the life and work of the great woman to a wider audience. I have mentioned her a few times in various threads, but you are right, I fear she is widely unknown outside of Germany.
She was a truely remarkable woman, a Polish-German-Jewish socialist whose internationalism and libertarian understanding of Marxism stood in contrast to the authoritarian Bolshevism of Lenin and Stalin.
Her early death, she was brutally murdered by right-wing irregular German troops in 1919, not only put an end to all hopes of a socialist revolution in Germany after WW1, but also silenced the major opposition against Soviet Bolshevism inside the Communist movement in Europe.

"Spartacus" pamphlets.....Spartacist League....hmm,from now i will remember her.

In 1988, a group of East-German dissidents was arrested for trying to show a banner with one of her most famous quotes on the official memorial ralley.

Originally posted by Paul The Rumanians certainly didn't. Confusing feudalism with socialism and all that. I think the whole point is that Rosa was a critic of soviet communism, she saw through it before others and believed in something completely different.

How smart.
There is no good socialism, and humanity doesn't need another experiment.  And be polite.

Rosa Luxemburg, on the contrary, stuck to her revolutionary Marxist principles. In 1893, along with Leo Jogiches and Julian Marchlewski (alias Julius Karski), she founded the newspaper Sprawa Robotnicza ("The Workers' Cause"), in opposition to the nationalist policies of the Polish Socialist Party. Luxemburg believed that an independent Poland could only come about through revolutions in Germany, Austria, and Russia. She maintained that the struggle should be against capitalism itself, and not for an independent Poland. Luxemburg denied the right of self-determination for nations under socialism, which later caused tensions with Vladimir Lenin.


from wikipedia

"denied the right of self-determination for nations under socialism," - like USSR


Edited by Richard XIII

Originally posted by Richard XIII She maintained that the struggle should be against capitalism itself, and not for an independent Poland. Luxemburg denied the right of self-determination for nations under socialism, which later caused tensions with Vladimir Lenin.

Wikipedia might not be the best reference for discussing the finer points of Marxist theory.

The phrase "denied the right of self-determination" is rather a misleading one.

R. Luxemburg did not deny the right of a people, as in the Polish People, to determine their own fate, in the sense that it would allow a foreign power to rule the country.

What L. argued was, that because of the specific situation in Poland, being a country that had been for centuries under Prussian-Russian-Austrian domination, the struggle for independence could only be achieved in combination with a socialist revolution, not only in Poland itself, but also in the countries that had ruled Poland.
Marxist theory sees the struggle for independent national states, that was a phenomena of the 19th century, as a historical necessecity and precondition for the development of a capitalist society , but as this stage had already passed in Germany, Austria and to a lesser extent in Russia, there was no need to demand an independent capitalist Poland anymore, but directly fight for a socialist revolution.
Once having achieved this socialist revolution, the nationhood of Poland, like those in any other socialist country would with time become meaningless, as Socialism by definition is international and will in theory not only abolish any class differences, but also the differences between nations that in capitalism had caused an endless chain of wars, the most terrible being WW1.
The discussion, if a socialist revolution and a socialist system is possible in one isolated state, or if a true socialist society can only be achieved in a global context, as Trotsky argued, has been raging inside the Communist movement for a century now, and the experiences with the Stalinist regimes in the SU or China, give more credit to the second argument.


Edited by Komnenos

Originally posted by Komnenos What L. argued was, that because of the specific situation in Poland, being a country that had been for centuries under Prussian-Russian-Austrian domination, the struggle for independence could only be achieved in combination with a socialist revolution, not only in Poland itself, but also in the countries that had ruled Poland.

It was about 120 years, not centuries.

But it wasnt anything new. As i posted earlier in the topic about people who fought for other nations, Poles recognised the need for European wide revolution soon after lost indepoendence. That is also what Engels said about Poland much earlier. In fact revolutionary moods raised in Poland even before loosing independence and the influence of french revolution in the 90ties of 18th century were strong. One of the reason of 3rd partition of Poland was to stop polish jacobine threat, as it was considered by Russia, Prussia and Austria after polish parliament and king enacted constitution of the 3 mai 1791.

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There is no good socialism??? Of course there is look up the northern map of Europe and you will find socialist countries (Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark) and to some degree Germany too. Their standard of living is prolly best in the world. And of course we need another experiment and not follow blindly the American consumer "mob-o-cracy" that they have over here with everyone working for himself and crapping on everyone else.
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Maybe social-democracy. We don't need another experiment we need a real democracy, and American consumer "mob-o-cracy" saved Europe three times.

In 2040 America will be seen in Iraq like now in Romania, no matter what you, with american citizenship, will think. America is now the only country how fight for freedom. It's far away from a perfect society but did something, EU didn't. Too much words from the rest of the world and no action, have you a better option?

Originally posted by vulkan02 I have every right to criticize it. America did something because it is expected to do something. Plus it is the worlds strongest country so yeah of course it has to do something. It can't adopt the isolationist policy it had before WW2.

I think we are on the same side.