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The Montenegrin Question

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  Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Montenegrin Question
    Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 02:13
Now, based on huge research collected across other sources (various online, and from local libraries), I am going to start a big thread on the Montenegrin national question. In short, the Montenegrins are a tiny Slavic people, though by great integrated into the Serbian nation, they live also in a small European country as an independent nation known as Montenegro, between Serbia, Albania, Bosnia and Croatia (and, well, sort of, Kosovo). Here's the 700,000-strong country's location:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Europe_location_MNO.png

Namely, the very true and factual oversimplified though issue of this old and lagging on controversy is:

"Are the Montenegrins Serbs or not?"

Note that the point of this subject is not there to give an answer to this oversimplified presentation of this thread's purpose in precise, but to define and explain the controversy over the Montenegrin Question as much as it can to the interested mind.

As always, we shall start up with the main thing - the history. In the following posts I shall present the exact citations of the Montenegrin rulind dynasty known as the House of Petrovic-Njegos. It ruled the Montenegrins from 1697 to 1918, enlarged the country and its name for more than 10 times, made the Montenegrin name known and notable, made their country independent, built up the whole country itself nearly from the bottom (transforming an Eastern Orthodox Christian Metropolitanate into a secular Princedom, and then into a Kingdom) and are in every way possibly one of the key elements in the ethnogenesis of the Montenegrin nation.

http://njegos.org/petrovics/dinastija.jpg


Edited by Yugoslav - 28-Sep-2008 at 02:27
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  Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 02:51
I shall start with the very first, Danilo Scepcev Petrovic-Njegos (1697-1735). He was nominated by the Serb Patriarch Arsenije III Crnojevic (who was himself a Montenegrin) in 1697 and elected by the Montenegrin Council to be the next Montenegrin Metropolitan*. Patriarch Arsenije was leading a massive wave of the Serb populace in what was known as The Great Serb Migration from Kosovo and other territories of Old Serbia under Ottoman reign, after the Habsburgs tragically lost their chance to defeat the Ottomans and the reprisals for assisting them were abound, into Habsburg Hungay. Therefore, Danilo went in 1700 to Retschingen (which the Serbs knew as "Sečuj"), and was made into Prince-Bishop of the Skadar lands by the Patriarch. He is known as the initiator of the movements to liberate Montenegro from Ottoman rule and in general the beginnings of the Serbian national movement.

http://www.njegos.org/petrovics/vdanilo.jpg

He was born ca. 1670 in the Njegusi village. In Orlov Krs (the Eagle's Karst) at Cetinje he founded the new Cetinje Monastery (the old one was destroyed during the Morrean war to the ground by the the Shkoder Sulayman-pasa Busatli, himself of ethnic Serb origins) in 1701 or 1704, dedicated to the Mother of Christ. He is infamous for the 1707 or 1709 incitment of the pogrom against domestic Muslims (however often overamplified, especially since the Turks wouldn't let him to travel in '09 to Pec to a council of the Serbian Church). In 1711 he responded to the Ottoman declaration of war against Russia with an offensive, allying with Russia and managing to secure incredible and wealthy financial support from the Russians (1714-1716), in 1712 he defeated the outnumbering Ottoman Turks deceisively with minimal losses at the Battle of Carev Laz in the Ljesanska Nahija and continuing fighting against the Turks for years, another major victory being the 1717 battle of Trnjine. In 1712 he lost Cetinje briefly to the Turks (Ahmed-pasa) who raided it, and in 1714 the Bosnian vizier Numan-pasa Cuprilic invaded Montenegro from three sides and completely devastated it, destroying the Monastery and most of Cetinje. After returning from Russia, he lived in 1716-1724 in the (Pod)Maine monastery near Budva, when he rebuilt the Cetinje. In 1713 he founded the Earlthly Court for Montenegro, passed by the General Montenegrin Council (composed by 12 most influential Chieftains). He united the Montenegrin clans and made an effort to eradicate the blood feud, was known for occasionally using cursed, and in 1718 got Venetian permission to officially spread his influence over the Orthodox Serbs living in the coastline. He died in the Podmaine coastal monastery.

http://www.montenegro.org/pictures/mon_cet.gif
this is the new Cetinje Monastery, founded by Danilo

The following is the oldest inscription of Danilo, from 1698, while acquiring a book:

"At the summer of 7207 on the month of July on 17th on the Sunday of Holy Fathers, so we had seen the book bought the Biography of Saint Abbas, the first Archepiscop and teacher Serbian, by the sinful and peaceful Danil, mentioned Prince-Bishop of Cettigne."

In 1702, Prince-Bishop Danilo was sanctifying a new church in an old Montenegrin village in the valley of Zeta. It is there that a band of Ottoman Turks tricked him and kidnapped him, subsequently horrendously torturing him (the case of his later unsathiated hatred towards the Turks and Islam in general). The village's name was (and still is to this very day), Serbian (or litterally, "Srpska")

In 1711 Russian Czar Peter the Great sent colonel Mihailo Miloradovic from Herzegovina and Ivan Lukarevic of Podgorica to bring his charters to the Montenegrin people and establish direct diplomatic links in an effort to move them against the Ottoman Empire. In a council in Cetinje in front of most local Montenegrins gathered, Danilo stated to them:

"But here today, cheering God, we see his emissaries and his Imperial charters into our hands; the envoys, I speak, not foreigners, but our brothers Serbs..."

In 1714 Danilo spoke on one session of the Montenegrin Council to the Chieftains. This is an excerpt from his speech:

"Gladly would I face my death had you all wanted to die honorably and in fame, as done by Prince Lazar himself and Milos Obilic who slew the Emperor in Kosovo, and then himself fell along with his master and seven thousand fighters - which brought us Montenegrins into these hills - leaving behind afterward glory and honor...As you all know, in your time, during the difficult Viennese War, how many brave Serbs, Greeks and Bulgarians, Hungarians and Germans fell..."

On 2 December 1714 the Metropolitan wrote letter of Metropolitan Danilo to the consul of Russian Emperor Peter the Great in Vienna Gavril Golovkin. The following is an excerpt from that letter:

"And now they have stopped me here...I do not know what will be of my life in a foreign Empire, because I would first disgrace myself, and then our Serb tribes, when I would ask for help from other states, and others would mock us..."

And finally, in 1732, Metropolitan Danilo wrote the following on a pergament in a Gospel, for the first time using the attractive to him "Duke to the Serb land" title (some think he indeed was a Duke and others, that he just named himself to present the reign over the Serbs):

"Danil, Prince-Bishop Cettigne's, Nyegosh, Duke to the Serb land, bought this holy gospel by the price of 5 Gold in Ivan Kaludjerovic of Rissan, brought from the Moldavian land with his buyer. And we from our effort managed the silver - the cheek of Christ and 4 Gospelists and from the other side the 5 silver - all in total 10 and placed it I in the Patriarchate of Pec in the Temple of Christ's Resurrection."

http://www.cetinje.cg.yu/images/Istorija/v_danilo%5B1%5D.jpg

Prince Danil restored heraldry in Montenegro since the demise of the Medieval Principality in the wake of Ottoman might. He renewed the traditions of continuinity with the medieval Crnojevic dynasty, as well as in that manner the Serbian Nemanyiden dynasty, and in 1715 presented this paper with the Montenegrin Coat of Arms drawn on it. It was inspired by the Crnojevic Coat of Arms found in the ruins of the old Cetinje Monastery and influence by various liturgic and other ecclesiastical book records which had similar ensignia.

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8961/grbdanilamo4.png

* In 1516 the last heir to the Montenegrin throne Djuradj Crnojevic had passed on to the Serbian Orthodox Church in Montenegro the successorship from his exile in Venice, due to the fact that the Ottomans came to rule his lands, and since then onwards the "Prince-Bishops" as they became, led the local peoples.


Edited by Yugoslav - 28-Sep-2008 at 13:53
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  Quote Carpathian Wolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 03:20
Anyone who buys into the notion that Montenegrins are not Serbs...I have some Moldovan to Romanian dictionaries i'd like to sell you.
 
 
LOL
 
 
 
Great read Yugoslav!
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  Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 04:17

May be those fellows would be happy to exchange them to some new Serbian-Montenegran dictionaries. LOL

 
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  Quote Carpathian Wolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 05:09

Aw damn you're right! Cause I know all this Serbian and stuff and i always wanted to know how to say it in Montenegrin! :p We're having too much fun with this.

 

Ok sorry Yugoslav we're spamming your thread with sillyness :x.

 

I'm curious about the opinions of the people in Montenegro are. I mean they hold out polls of what you are and they list "Montenegrin, Serb" seperetly of course people pick Montenegrin. It's like asking me if i'm Ardelean, Moldovan or Regat or Romanian. Of course i'd pick my region first.

 

I'd be curious to know what Montenegrins considered themselves pre 1990s however. Now a days alot of media stigma is placed on being Serb.

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  Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 06:08
The next is Sava Petrovic-Njegos (born 1702, though unsure, read the text to find out why), Prince-Bishop from 1735 to 1781 and Danil's nephew. He was hand-picked by his cousin Danilo to be his successor to the Metropolitan throne in 1719, with the permission of the Serb Patriarch in Pec Moses Putnik Curla (who also that year made him one).

http://www.njegos.org/petrovics/sava.jpg

He is known as being incredibly weak and of no political influence save for religious caretaking, sick almost always. In local politics he tied himself to the Venetian Republic. In 1742-1744 he travelled to the Russian Empire to secure financial aid to sustain the Church and Montenegro itself. In 1736 Sava expanded his Podmaine Monastery residence, and in 1747 he restored the Stanjevici Monastery dedicated to the Holy Trinity. His cousin Archymandrite Vasilije [Basil] was replacing him, and he soon kicked him out of political life, disliking his opposition to any use of violence and general inaction. Under venetian influence he attempted to kick Basil out, but failed and eventually conceded to make him also Prince-Bishop in 1750, mostly leaving him to travel to Russia. With no result he made a Russian archymandrite to be Bishop of Zeta (1756) and sent his nephew (1762) like his co-ruler to secure a Russian protectorate. He managed to put the coastal town of Herceg-Novi under his religious dependence, as well as tried to influence the Dalmatian Orthodoxes. He tried to restore the abolished (1766) Serbian Orthodox Church with no result.

In the 1760s Russian Prince Dolgoruki and the exiled Serbian Patriarch Vasilije Brkic (who was elected under Sava's influence in the first place) and Brkic became the dominant person in Montenegro due to popular support of the common Patriarch of all Serbs until they left in 1769. From 1767 to 1773 Sava played allong the imposter who pretended that he is Russian Czar Peter and had him become the absolute secular ruler of the country (so-called "False Tsar Stephen the Little") until he was lynched, introducing yet another person of power in the anarchy. In 1770 he gave the Radonjic family successorship rights for Goverency* in Montenegro. He chose a successof in 1768, Arsenije Plamenac, which was made into by Patriarch Brkic during his exile in Montenegro, an act found outrageous by many for braking the dynastic Petrovic cannon. After 1773, he didn't move from his home dealing in ecclesiastic affairs together with his successor Arsenije. He died in 1781, leaving a popular "running" myth that he died in 100th year.

http://www.mitropolija.cg.yu/ustrojstvo/manastiri/img/man_podmaine_129a.jpg
this is a photo of the Podmaine monastery

http://www.mitropolija.cg.yu/ustrojstvo/manastiri/img/man_stanjevici_128b.jpg
this is a photo of the Stanjevici monastery

* In 1742 Prince-Bishop Sava Petrovic-Njegos wrote a common letter with the Governer Vukadin Vukotic of All Montenegro, Duke Ilija Radonjic, Governor Nikola Lazarevic of All Grbalj & Coastline and Duke Niko Stijepov of Cetinje to the Russian Czarina Elizabeth Petrova: "We, who reside in the Serb land in the Macedonian regions, and The Skadar, Montenegro and the Seaside.."

* In 1743 Montenegrin Prince-Bishop Sava wrote a letter to the Russian Empress Elizabeth, retelling how Czar Peter the Great sent in 1711 colonel Michael Miloradovic and captain Ivan Lukarcevic to Montenegrin Metropolitan Danil, the Montenegrin Chiefs and "the entire one-faithed Montenegrin people, which is of the one and only SlavoSerbian kin and language"

In 1746 Prince-Bishop Sava Petrovic bought a parchment of land (in Ottoman soil) from some neighboring landowners and the charters of it he gave to be "in our, Serbian, written by priest Mitar Raskovic, and in Turkish written by Chaplan aya Omercehic".

In 1750 Prince-Bishop Sava wrote to the Dalmatian Roman Catholic inquisition in Venetian-Italian, ending the letter with "translated from the Slavo-Serbian language" (Traduzione dall' Idioma Illirico-Serviano).

On 25 May 1752 in Cetinje in the "Residence of Cetinje's Metropolitans" Prince-Bishop Sava and Serbian exiled Patriarch Atanasije (he was exiled from Pec and hid in Montenegro, which did not recognize the new pro-Constantinople pro-Turkish Serbian Orthodox Phanariot leadership in Pec) wrote a letter to the Russia. It was brought to Russia by his cousin archymandrite Basil Petrovic Njegos, in it also recommending the "Metropolitan heir and Exarch of the Serb Throne Basil" to her, noting also about the rest of the "SlavoSerbian lordship"):

"Especially is of every condolence worthy a Serb land which is not only of every right stripped, but also permanently lies under the feet of the opponent, and her passions and whelps are hard to describe...

The only free principality Montenegrin which is ready to show its faith and courage, as too before, to the entire our SlavoSerbian people.
"

On 3 January 1757 Prince-Bishop Sava wrote a common letter with his co-ruler Vasilije and all Montenegrin Chieftains to the Venetian Princeps signing with: "...from our famous Serbian Empire."

On 15 June 1767 he wrote a letter directed to the Republic of Dubrovnik, the following are its contents:

"And it is glad to us your holding, that you keep the speech of our Serbian language."

In 1775, Prince-Bishop Sava wrote to the Senate of the Republic of Dubrovnik:

"Your famous Republic knows that all of our lordship and glory Serbian fell and nothing remained...you are a single flower to the isolated world with which the Serbian land can brag."

The following is a letter to the Russian Empress Catherine the Great from 1776:

"In all of Europe it is heard and to ears comes your clearness and caring of holy churches and Orthodoxy, so it comes glad to heart. It is therefore that I dare disturb your holiness and inform you about the general SlavoSerbian people which lives under a terrifying and unbearable grip of Turkish slavery with God's permission for our sins. Not a single bishopric has its own natural bishop a Serb, and all were expelled from their thrones and removed by the injustice of Constantinople's Patriarch and his Synods, and in their places Greeks brought in. For all the rules of holy apostles and saints have no rights because they are deprived by the Patriarch of Constantinople, of what the Serbian nation had since its first saint Sava the enlightener Serbian as can be found with the kait, that is the Sultan's secretary. Rise up the throne of the fallen Serbian Archbishopric which is deprived of all beauty by the Greeks with the unjust decision of Constantinople's Patriarch and his Synods of Orthodoxy. Oh great ruler Ekaterina, who judges rightfully, express some mercy for us unhappy Serb bishops, we have you as God's envoy. Protect us from the Porte, so that the Greeks to not mettle into the Serbian nation for which we shall be in your eternal debt.

The Orthodox God's Archbishop Plato, if God is in the heart of Her Majesty, shall free us of the Greeks the throne of the Serbian Archbishopric of Pec. If it would be merciful to Her Highness and the the OverHoly Synod to sign for eternity under the OverHolly Righteous Synod of All Russia onforth that no Serb Archbishop can be placed without the permission of Her Majesty and the all-holy synod of All Russian. If need be, then a Russian bishop can come as Archbishop of Pec to the throne by same-languageness and same-bloodness.

From that could Russia have a strong military firmness of the Serbian nation, as Austrian Emperors had in every war with the Porte. This will be cheered by all Serb Bishops and the entire Serbian nation and they shall sign it with joy. To me in hands given from all SlavoSerbian bishops as the eldest and to no authority subjected with my Montenegrin people. Russia will in time be strengthened with the blood of the Serb nation, that is its most hopeful Montenegro.

In the Cathedral our Metropolitanate,
Cetinje, 26 February 1776
Metropolitan of the Skadar, Montenegro and the Coastline
Sava Petrovic
"

http://www.mitropolija.cg.yu/ustrojstvo/manastiri/img/man_podmaine_129b.jpg
the Church of the Podmaine monastery raised by Sava

Development of Montenegrin heraldry proceeds with Sava. His Bicephalous Eagle seemed to not to be a double-headed eagle, but actually two eagles merged into one. A new thing is that there is no more a crown over each head, but a common one above both heads, signifying centralization and unification of the reign, the crown being a remniscence of the Serbian Empire. Another new thing is the heraldic snake in the eagle(s)'s paws. The following is found on the 1747 stone fence of the Podmaine (or also called Podostrog) monastery's well.

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5445/grbsaveka2.png

With Metropolitan Sava, the practice of sigillography enter Montenegro. Below is the first seal, from a letter of the Montenegrin Chieftains to the Venetian governor of Kotor from 23 April 1749. The change was in replacing the Crown with a Christian Cross, a symbol of the political and historical reality in the land of Montenegro presented through the struggle against the occupying Islam, and the determining role of the Metropolitanate in the Montenegrin struggle. The bicephalous eagle's wings are not down, but are wide spread, another meaning of the time to shine and rush in the fight. The paws hold bowls, which was a sort of renewal of old heraldic heritage from the Crnojevic Medieval era. Another new thing is the addition of the biblical lion, representer of Saint John Mark the Evangelist (or better said of David himself, as the paradygm of Christ's arrisal and his realm as well as Solomon's symbol of future). In the beginning of the 18th century the already mentioned Patriarch Arsenije III Carnojevic introduced this symbol into usage, which soon quickly spread across the Church of Serbia into all Bishops. It says "The Mohur of All Montenegro".

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/497/mohurcrnegorenj7.png

The following are Prince-Bishop Sava Petrovic's own two preserved seals, the left from 1777 and the right from 1779:

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/2382/pecatsavebs1.png

*Goverency was introduced in the early 18th century by his predecessor, Danilo, as a means to commune with the Venetian Republic, however they turned out to be merely the Venetian administrators of Montenegro, in the wake of lackness of a secular authority


Edited by Yugoslav - 28-Sep-2008 at 19:40
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  Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 07:04
Is any connection between the name Montenegro and the Black Vlachs (Maurovlachs, Morlachs)?

I'm proud that my grand-grandmother was half Montenegrin Vlach, her family name was Tsopa even after marriage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morlachs

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  Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 13:51
Originally posted by Carpathian Wolf

Ok sorry Yugoslav we're spamming your thread with sillyness :x.


Np. This is what forums are for. Wink

Originally posted by Menumorut

Is any connection between the name Montenegro and the Black Vlachs (Maurovlachs, Morlachs)?


Actually, not really. The Slavonic toponym is of geographic appearence origins.
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  Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 14:09
Originally posted by Yugoslav

Actually, not really. The Slavonic toponym is of geographic appearence origins.


Well, in the link I gived is said:

"The adjective "black" is used here with the meaning of "northern", this metaphor probably deriving from the Turkic practice of naming cardinal directions after colours.

Reports from the mid-11th century tell how the Morlachs lived in the mountainous regions of Montenegro, Bosnia (Stara Vlaška), Herzegovina and on the Dalmatian coast. "

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  Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 14:12
Originally posted by Menumorut

Originally posted by Yugoslav

Actually, not really. The Slavonic toponym is of geographic appearence origins.


Well, in the link I gived is said:

"The adjective "black" is used here with the meaning of "northern", this metaphor probably deriving from the Turkic practice of naming cardinal directions after colours.

Reports from the mid-11th century tell how the Morlachs lived in the mountainous regions of Montenegro, Bosnia (Stara Vlaška), Herzegovina and on the Dalmatian coast. "


Uhm, yes, so?
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  Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 14:25
So I think is quite possible that the name of Montenegro and the one the Black Vlachs to be related, as long as Montenegro was the land where they were mainly living. The Vlachs have been the majoritary inhabitants of large areas of Balkans and the main group was the one in Macedonia and Thessaly, while the Vlachs in Montenegro were called Black Vlachs because they were the Northern Vlachs. So, the Vlachs gived the name of this region.

I'm adding that in old Romanian, the North was named "miazanoapte" which means "middle night", while the South is miazazi or "middle day".

Edited by Menumorut - 28-Sep-2008 at 14:44

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  Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 14:45
Originally posted by Menumorut

So I think is quite possible that the name of Montenegro and the one the Black Vlachs to be related, as long as Montenegro was the land where they were mainly living. The Vlachs have been the majoritary inhabitans of large areas of Balkans and the main group was the one in Macedonia and Thessaly, while the Vlachs in Montengro were called Black Vlachs because they were the Northern Vlachs. So, the Vlachs gived the name of this region.


Well it is like I said, the native "Crna Gora" naming is not uncommon at all, there were countles "Crna Gora"s in the Medieval Serbian realm, Skopska Crna Gora, Presevska Crna Gora, Uzicka Crna Gora, in Rashka there are "Crne Gore" in plural, there is a Banatska Crna Gora in Banat, there is a 'Crna Gora' mountain in western Bulgaria, and another mountain in western Serbia, there is a 'Mala Crna Gora' in the Zabljak Montenegrin municipality, Crna Goras can even be found in Poland. It is a Slavic toponym for excessively mountainous areas riched with mirkwood life. I can't see how the most southern Black Vlachs could've been the Northern ones?


Edited by Yugoslav - 28-Sep-2008 at 14:48
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 15:08
The world's most famous, if fictional, Montenegrin is undoubtedly Nero Wolfe, Rex Stout's detective hero.
 
Not that that adds much to the thread, but if you come across a copy of his The Black Mountain you might like it. Smile
 
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  Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 15:09
The name for Montenegro, the Serbian Crna Gora come from the Italian Montenegro:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Montenegro#Etymology

As for the other Crna Goras in Serbia, am I wrong or most of them are in the area around Montenegro?

The Banatska Crna Gora could too be related with the Morlachs, while the one in Poland could too be related with the Vlachs, as long as the mountainous region of Poland was colonized with Balkan Vlachs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorals

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  Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 18:53
Originally posted by gcle2003

The world's most famous, if fictional, Montenegrin is undoubtedly Nero Wolfe, Rex Stout's detective hero.
 
Not that that adds much to the thread, but if you come across a copy of his The Black Mountain you might like it. Smile
 


Sure, anything related to Montenegro should go here. Wink

Originally posted by Menumorut

The name for Montenegro, the Serbian Crna Gora come from the Italian Montenegro:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Montenegro#Etymology

As for the other Crna Goras in Serbia, am I wrong or most of them are in the area around Montenegro?

The Banatska Crna Gora could too be related with the Morlachs, while the one in Poland could too be related with the Vlachs, as long as the mountainous region of Poland was colonized with Balkan Vlachs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorals


Wikipedia is not really a good source for things, and especially since the Italian historian turned out to be wrong. It was indeed believed that the oldest mentions come from Venice and the 13th/14th centuries, however its first mentions in Slavic, which also is a frequent Serbian/Slavonic toponym, clear up things a bit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegro#Name

Only if Macedonia, southeastern and northwestern parts of Serbia, central-western Bulgaria and Polish southcentral regions Wink are near Montenegro. However I am sure there are a lot more Crna Goras in Slavic lands...For the Banatska Crna Gora, it is in precise a group of settlements raised by Serbs, rather than Vlachs. Also it could not be Morlachs, as the Morlo-Vlachs had lived in the Dalmatian areas an local hinterland, and not so deep as the Pannonian plain inland.

----

Also, for everybody, I have vastly expanded the two sections on the first Petrovic-Njegos rulers. Star
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  Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 19:37
I found that in Italian Black Mountain is Monte Nero. Montenegro is not in Italian but in Vlach language:


http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/List_of_country_name_etymologies



Only if Macedonia, southeastern and northwestern parts of Serbia, central-western Bulgaria and Polish southcentral regions Wink are near Montenegro. However I am sure there are a lot more Crna Goras in Slavic lands...For the Banatska Crna Gora, it is in precise a group of settlements raised by Serbs, rather than Vlachs. Also it could not be Morlachs, as the Morlo-Vlachs had lived in the Dalmatian areas an local hinterland, and not so deep as the Pannonian plain inland.



The name Maurovlachs preceds with 2-3 centuries the name Crnagora/Montenegro in documents. And as I said, it has a good explanation, they were the Northern Vlachs (Moldavia was also called in Middle Age Maurowallachia or Black Wallachia because it was the Northern Wallachia in relation with the other Wallachia).





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  Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 19:42
Originally posted by Menumorut

The name Maurovlachs preceds with 2-3 centuries the name Crnagora/Montenegro in documents.


But, when is the first mention of the Maurovlach name?
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  Quote Menumorut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 20:02
According to Buschan "Die Volker Europas'', c. 1910, the Maurovlachen (Maurovlachians) were black Vlachians; they were nomadic shepherds, like the Aromunen and Turkish shepherds; their name was mentioned in the 10th century in the Byzantine empire; in the 11th century in Bulgaria and in later times in the western part of the Balkan peninsula.

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/fyr-morl.html

Also see the above quote from the Morlachs article in Wikipedia.




Edited by Menumorut - 28-Sep-2008 at 20:04

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  Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Sep-2008 at 21:51
Vasilije (II) Petrovic-Njegos was the Montenegrin Prince-Bishop from 1750 to 1766. Born in the Njegusi village in 1709, he was in 1750 made Prince-Bishop with Sava's consent by the Serbian Patriarch Atanasius II in Belgrade (Pec taken over by Phanariotes), after his visitation to the Syrmian monasteries, taking over the political affairs from Sava. He was granted the title Exarch of the Serb Throne (in the bill referring twice to the subjection "to the SlavoSerbian throne in Pec", this title was always present next to his name) to be the second in command and the deputy until control over the Pec Patriarchate is restored. He was often in conflict with Sava, wanting more radical means, to go to war against the Turks rather than simply waiting, and he even let by the Montenegrins to raid the Venetian-held coastline and the Dubrovnikers occasionally to supply themselves (an old practice).



In vain he travelled to Vienna to achieve Austrian support from Maria Theresa for Montenegrin sovereignty, and for a while in 1751 he was closed in a monastery for getting in conflict with the Karlowitz Metropolitan Nenadovic.  In 1752 he went with the Patriarch's permission and recommendation from Sava and the Montenegrin Chieftains to Russia, reaching Moscow in 1753. In Russia he printed the 1754 very first "History about Montenegro" and managed to interest the Russians to extend financial support to the Montenegrins. He returned across Austria, where he was accepted by the Emperor in Vienna, to Montenegro. He received support to stop paying taxes to the Ottomans and enter a constant state of open conflict, while his History was immediately translated to Italian (Venetian) for the Venetian Republic. On the Russian courted he ousted many Serbs from Bosnia-Herzegovina who pretended to be Montenegrin nobles. He raised a new Church in Maine near Budva, and the Stanjevici monastery became the center of Russian agitation and propaganda. For this Venice bounted his head, and on there were three different assassination attempts from late 1755 to November of 1756. Then the Ottoman Turks wanted to defeat Montenegro again led by Ahmet-pasa, but after inflicting heavy casualties, were eventually stopped at the Tomici and forced to evacuate.

http://www.montenet.org/history/vasilbig.jpg

From 1756 to 1760 he led a wave of migration of prominent Montenegrins into Russia (like most Serbs did then), hoping to find them better life, as well as (which turned out to be successful) promote further Russian financial support of Montenegro. In 1759 he returned across Budva into Montenegro with a Russian engineer, although his thesis on the Montenegrins was not really neutral as his final report was as if they are a wild people, using European standards. He befriended Dositej Obradovic and introduced him into religion. Vasilije lost the Monastery of Saint Luke to the Greek Phanariotes. He travelled for the third time to Russia in 1765, unfortunately dying as a Russian guest in Saint Petersburg in 1766. He was buried there, with the signature and the Serbian Imperial Coat of Arms on his grave. Vasilije is the man responsible for introducing the Cult of Adoration of Russia in Montenegro. The exiled Serb Patriarch mentioned earlier Vasilije Jovanovic Brkic was buried in 1772 next to him.

On 27 October 1751 Prince-Bishop Basil signed himself as "Exarch of the Serb Throne".

In 1753 Prince-Bishop Basil wrote down the following:

"We hope that other SlavoSerbian groups around us will also join us."

On 21 January 1753, Prince-Bishop Vasilije wrote to the State Collegium of Foreign Affairs wrote that if "the Montenegrin SlavoSerbian people" did not fight and defend so heroically, "all of Serbia would fall and be raided".

On 20 February 1753, Vasilije calls himself "the calm shepherd of the Montenegrin SerboSlavonic people".

On 22 April 1753 Prince-Bishop Basil wrote to the Russian Chancellor Alexius Petrovic Bestuzev Riumin that in the case of a war against the Ottoman Turks, around the Montenegrin already the Coastlanders and Highlanders have ajoined, calling them "other SlavoSerbian peoples".

On 2 May 1753 Vasilije Petrovic wrote to Russian count Peter Ivanovic Suvalov describing that the Turks want to conquer "..our beloved Serb land.."

The following is from the 1754 historical book "History about Monte Negro", which he dedicated to the Russian vice-changellor:

"For our great sins, and especially for the murder of the young Emperor Uros, God angered himself and let the Turks come to rule almost the entire Serbian Empire.

Montenegro is settled mostly by migrants, who fled to these hills after the doom of the Serbian Empire. Thus every clan remembers its founder who moved to Montenegro; every clan has, in folklore, its history; each story tells when its old moved in to Montenegro, whoever they were, whenever they came from etc. I shall name several examples. The Nyegushs for example tell that they are from below the Njegos mountain, from Herzegovina, two brothers came - Erak and Raič, and then settled in the Njegushs from whom the place of Njegusi got its name, and from these two brothers two numerous villages became: Erakovics and Raicevics.

During the election of Prince Lazar for Serbian Emperor, all Serbian nobility was there, save for the Zetan and Montenegrin herzog, who was in that time Balsha, son of Stratzimir, who inherited the duchy, after Jovan I herzog, who sprang from the family of Prince Vukan, Symeon Nemanya's son, and was called Jovan I Crnojevic.

Balsa, whom I mentioned before, came to Kossovo on the third day after that unfortunate battle in 6897 from the creation of the world, from the birth of Christ in 1389 June the 15th. Balsa was already in mourning that he didn't get to fight in the Battle of Amsfeld.
"

And then he writes about himself that he "entered a political and fraternal link with the Serbian tribes surrounding Montenegro. He entered the fraternal connection with the Serbs of the Bay of Kotor, with some of the clans of Herzegovina, with the heroic Highlanders.

Immediately when the chiefs of the surrounding Serb clans have received this book from the Prince-Bishop and the Montenegrin chiefs, they jumped to their heroic feet and started gathering an army, to rush in assistance of Montenegro, their model, upon which all Serbs looked as the spot from which the sun shall rise and shine, as a beacon that shines in dark, which had covered the Serbian lands, and tells them that not all the Serbian skies have been covered in darkness, that the entire Serbian sun is not pressed by the cloud, but that there is still on the Serbian sky one shining dot which blows a ray of hope to the entire Serbian people for general national liberation. Brothers responded to brothers in a fraternal manner and reached them for assistance in suffering and angry trouble.
"

And in the dedication to Count Michael Voroncoff, to whom he gifted the first copy of the book:

"Located at the most holy court of His Imperial Highness, I, the calm shepherd of the SlavenoSerbian Montenegrin people, expecting a most merciful release to return to my fatherland and head to the spiritual flock, took upon myself in this position of the earlier rulers of the Montenegrin land and with blessing of the holy Serbian Emperors and Despots, whoever they were and wherever they came from, to submit to your countly holiness as a trustworthy and for foreign peoples interested minister; hoping that your High Countly Holiness shall print with our Montenegrin people's and other SlavoSerbian peoples' greatest will towards the high famous Russian Empire."

His '54 work is the very first historical national work by a Montenegrin. Here is how it begins:

"For our great sins, and especially the murder of the youn Emperor Uros, God became furious and let the Turks come to rule the Serb lands, although not entirely. After that all sorts of people came up from the Empire and other countries and declared themselves of esteemed families of Serbian despots and counts, among them a certain Bosniac called Djordje Brankovic, calling himself Serbian Despot, even dares to call himself the Montenegrin commander, for which he was by the demand of Emperor Leopold imprisoned in Prague, where he passed away, where he earlier wrote many histories regarding the Serbs, and especially glorifying his family, which amongst the Serbs remained in great hatred and shame for the betrayel of Prince Lazar."

In the bottom of the work, there is a:

"List of the Serb Bishops next to the Montenegrin Metropolitan"

(list of 12 Serbian Orthodox Bishops)

"These twelve bishops live poorly, as Turkish subjects, mostly angered by the Greeks, as happened in the last war, in 1737. The Greek Karadz-Ioanitio in Constantinople wrote to the Sultan that the Serbs with their national Patriarch and Episcops are the eternal traitors of the Empire, sometimes to Russia, sometimes to Kaiser, and sometimes to the Venetians. On that request the current Sultan Mohamet allowed Karadz-Ioanitio to be a Serbian Patriarch, he who did a lot of evil to the Serbian people, going across the Serbian land with the Sultan's edict, placing Greeks for Episcops, torturing the people and taking money by force. It is his own fortune that he did not come only to Montenegro. But in the end he himself fled from the Serbian people to Constantinople, with a lot of richness, robbing the holy churches and the Serbian people, and especially looting entirely the Patriarchate of Pec and leaving in it nothing save for the holy relics that rest there. Afterwards the Serbs elected their own national Patriarch, as before."

On 17 March 1754 Prince-Bishop wrote down that he takes good care "of the good of the Montenegrin Slavo-Serbian people".

In 1755 Metropolitan Vasilije Petrovic wrote a letter to the Bosnian Vizier Mehmet-pasa. In the top of the letter is says that it is "a translation from the Slavo-Serbian language" ("Traduzione dall' Idioma Ill(iric)o-Servicano").

On 3 January 1757, he wrote together with the Montenegrin Chieftains and his co-ruler Sava a letter to the Venetian Princeps, ending with "From our famous Serbian Empire" in the signature.

The year of 1763 was very dry in Montenegro, so Vasilije asked the Dubrovnik Republic "to make help to our church and the Montenegrin people with a certain sum of asprih, as Serbs would do to other Serbs and their neigbors."

It is also that in 1763 Prince-Bishop Basil had formed one of the first plans for a unified and Greater Serbian state. It would include the following lands*:

* today's Montenegro

* Balkan territories of today's Serbia (south of the river, excluding Pannonian Vojvodina)

* Bosnia (Ottoman Province territories)

* Dalmatia (Venetian territories)

* northern Albania (to the Drin river)

* Bulgaria (mostly overlapping the pre-1912 borders of Bulgaria)

* the Military Frontier (excluding the part that goes into Romanian lands)

In 1765 Ottoman Turkey asked for the tax from Montenegro. Vasilije tried to explain that Montenegro is already poor to give anything, and told to the Russian Prince Alexander Galicin what was his answer to the Ottoman Turks:

"You, Turks, took from the Montenegrins and other Serbs an Empire, vast lands and cities, what now do you want from us who reside in these high lands?"

During his reign Prince-Bishop Vasilije had tried to issue the first Montenegrin passports, in an effort to promote Montenegrin independence. However, only several were written, and mostly Russian passports were used. The following brackets were in the Montenegrin Passport:

* Nationality - Montenegrin

* Ethnicity - Serbian

* Religion - Eastern Orthodox

Prince-Bishop Vasilije is the man responsible for permanently introducing the Lion into Montenegrin heraldry. Below is Basil's Miter, and below that his tombstone.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/4188/mitrasavevx2.png

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1566/grobvasilijaqt6.png

* according to the historical interpretation of the Serbo-Slavonic historical school


Edited by Yugoslav - 30-Sep-2008 at 00:54
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  Quote Yugoslav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2008 at 00:37
Originally posted by Menumorut

According to Buschan "Die Volker Europas'', c. 1910, the Maurovlachen (Maurovlachians) were black Vlachians; they were nomadic shepherds, like the Aromunen and Turkish shepherds; their name was mentioned in the 10th century in the Byzantine empire; in the 11th century in Bulgaria and in later times in the western part of the Balkan peninsula.

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/fyr-morl.html

Also see the above quote from the Morlachs article in Wikipedia.




Actually, that's not about the Black Vlachs. It is about Vlachs in general. That very oldest mention of Vlachs in general from the 10th century is from 976 in precise, from Byzantine chronicler George Cedrenus. Boyar Sisman and his four sons raised an uprising against the Bulgarian Czar Peter. Sisman's son David died near a location known as "Pretty Oaks", fighting "Vlach wanderers".

The first mention of the Black Vlachs themselves, under the term "Nigri Latini", is from the Chronicle of the Priest of Doclea, which is still being located as written between the 12th and 15th centuries, and remains a mistery regarding who wrote it precisely, and where at all.
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