Amerindian roots of the Americas

When you say current populations you mean everyone or just the natives.

Cause obvioulsy North Americans have nothing to do with Amerindians, unlike South Americans where Spanish mixed with the Indians.

Then no for US and Canada and yes for Latin America

well I had to vote no.2
 I will talk about Mexico in this regard, I do think that natives are the real heirs of mesoamerican civilizations, them, not the meztizos. The history of indigenous peoples in Mexico has been a nightmare since the conquest, almost all of their legacy was destroyed, books, language, tradition, religion, etc. the only parts that remained did so because they were assimilated into the cristian doctrine, or because of isolation in dusty patches of dirst the Spainards wouldnt bother to take away from them.

Independence came and while it meant the world for meztizos and criollos, the indigenous would still be treated like crap (old Spanish tradition you see) and Im not going to explain a lot of exactly how they where treated, but it retty much continued the same until the revolution. The interesting part of the revolution, its that while it was a mess, in the sense that many armies fought against the bobernment, they all fought for diferent things, the dinigenous poluation played a very important role in the souther armies forexample...but if you see how the revolution ended, its no wonder why things didnt improve for indigenous.

and then BAM jump to present day, lack of oportunities, poverty, and corrup rural gobernment have caused a lot of migration of indigenous to cities, where of course they are still poor, and whats worst they are beeing agressivily assimilated.

300 years of Spanish control didnt kill the indigenous culture, but some decades of modern Mexico are doing it, large part of the problem is that many gobernments simply dont give a damm, if anything they see native culture as a turism asset...a sad example of this is in Yucatan.

Mexican gobernment seems content with the overall idiotic belief that Mayans somehow "dissapeared" when the truth is that Mayans never dissapeared they are still here and are direct descendants from the piramid builders..but nooo, why bother with that, selling the idea of "mistic Maya lands" is more attractive to tourist, the same happends with the Hollywoodesque portrayal of classical Mayans, turism creates shows about Mayans dancing in lion cloth with Moctezuma like featehrs on their heads, and claim to renaact real Mayan ceremonies...heck real Mayan ceremonies are nothing like that.

Of course since the gobernment doesnt really give a damm about them, whats wrong with that portrayal?

this is transforming into a rant, I'll get back on point.

The thing is that natives in Mexico are being stripped of ownership of their own culture, being transformed into trourism assets in the best of cases. and the Mexican gobernment wont do anything drastic i favor of indigenous without changing some of the ideas this country has been built on.

"Mexico is a meztizo nation, born out of the cultural clash of indigenous and Spaniards" this along with promoting the idea that meztizo culture is rooted on mesoamerican cultures..wich isnt true, meztizo culture is rooted on New Spain, and the sincrethism it existed back then, but meztizos hold no claim whatsoever to say Teotihuacan, or Chichen Itza, the ones that can claim them are the natives.

Now Im not saying mesoamerican culture doesnt not belong to Mexico, of course it does, but not all mexicans have that direct claim.

My problem wiht this is that meztizo culture very often acts like if Mayans, Nahuas, Mixtecs, etc are a thing of the past..loooong extinguished, well of course not they are still around and kicking. If they werent around anymore, if indigenous cultures would in deed be over, then sure claim whatever you want, but its not the case.

To give you a clear idea of this problem:  Chichen Itza the ancient Maya city was granted the title of new wonder of the world!!!!! OMFG Mexico went crazy with it, we have a wonder, we are getting recognition, we deserve it, we are that cool, and all the media nonsense you can picture.  
A big celebration was being held at the Maya city, everyone importnt in the gobernment, society and entertainment industry was there, rejoicing themselves
 in the city....

and the Mayans?

ahh yes them....well lots and lots of Mayans flocked to the city to sell their products to tourism (because without any gobernment support for a real living, thats what they resort to) and..guess what.    the horror   why are this filty people there? they are going to scare the tourist this is our moment of triumph!!! and so the Mayans where kicked out o the city, and anywhere near it, how dare the decendant of the people that build the world wonder to come here without an invitation?

unfortunedly this attitude towards indigenous, is not new here, and as long as they are being kept poor, the abuse and agressive assimilation will continue.

so yes...No.2 they are a minority being replaced..but I wouldnt go as far as saying by "progressive" people.

Originally posted by pinguin Originally posted by Vorian Then no for US and Canada and yes for Latin America   I don't know why you have such a binary attitude with respect to the topic. Do you live in the Americas? Actually many Americans and Canadians do have Amerindian blood, more than, I believe, you think. On the other hand, there are hundred of millions of European descendents in Latin America too, many of which still look European.   Actually, these times, some cities of Latin America look more European that many corners of the United States, either you accept it or not     The topic points to other thing, though. How much identification with Amerindian roots still exist accross the Americas.

Nope I don't live in Americas.  SO? Do I have to live there to post an opinion?

And it doesn't matter if there are even a million Americans with mixed blood.  The population of US is vast and they eliminated the Indians. They are not related to them neither culturally or ethnologicaly.

So no Amerindians have little importance in either US or Canada except for a source of shame and remorse.

Latin America on the other hand, is entirely different. And I am not talking about "who looks Indian". People in Peru, Argentina etc still have many Indian customs, traditional clothes etc and millions of them not a few survivors disposed in limited areas that dress up for tourists.


Edited by Vorian - 19-May-2008 at 18:39

Originally posted by Vorian Nope I don't live in Americas.  SO? Do I have to live there to post an opinion?

Originally posted by Pinguin Originally posted by Vorian And it doesn't matter if there are even a million Americans with mixed blood. The population of US is vast and they eliminated the Indians. They are not related to them neither culturally or ethnologicaly. It is more than a million. According to certain calculations it is at least 15 million people that has enough Amerindian ancestry that shows in genetical tests. And I am not counting there American Indians (2 millions) and some immigrants from Latin America (15 millions) that have sizable percentages of Amerindian ancestry.

Even if it's 15 million people that is about 5% of the population that's not a big proportion of the population. The population of the US alone is 300 million so out of 300 million 15 million have Amerindian ancestry. 5% of the population having Amerindian ancestry is not a big percentage and certainly not enough to make any real impact.

Originally posted by King John Even if it's 15 million people that is about 5% of the population that's not a big proportion of the population. The population of the US alone is 300 million so out of 300 million 15 million have Amerindian ancestry. 5% of the population having Amerindian ancestry is not a big percentage and certainly not enough to make any real impact.

Edited by pinguin - 19-May-2008 at 22:30

Originally posted by King John That still leaves 70-75% as having no Amerindian ancestry.

Touche!

Edited by pinguin - 20-May-2008 at 04:59

Originally posted by Pinguin What seems clear these days is that the early pioneer population intermarried with natives in the United States, but that mixture was diluted to a portion between 1/8 to 1/16 by the massive waves of European immigrants that flood that country since the end of the 18th century up to the middle of the 20th.

In a way, all humans on Earth have an African ancestry, but isn't this irrelevant to most discussions about today ethnicities? Do we call Chinese Africans because of that?