Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Revisionism:British History needs to be Rewritten
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Tyranos View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 01-Oct-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 246 		  Quote Tyranos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Revisionism:British History needs to be Rewritten
    Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 05:10
Get a load of this nonesense:
 
British History needs to be 'rewritten' according to Trevor Phillips
 
British history should be rewritten to make it "more inclusive", says Trevor Phillips, the head of the new human rights and equality commission.

He said Muslims were also part of the national story and "sometimes we have to go back into the tapestry and insert some threads that were lost".

He quoted the example of the Spanish Armada, which was held up by the Turks at the request of Queen Elizabeth I.

"It was the Turks who saved us," Mr Phillips told a Labour fringe meeting.

Read More:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7012698.stm
Back to Top
pekau View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Atlantean Prophet

Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 05:25
Spanish Armada was held by the Turks? It sounds wrong, but there should be some truth in it if the news was released from BBC news. Any ideas?
 
History is written by the winners. As Machiavelli said in his book, "The Prince", the end justifies the means.
     
   
Join us.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 05:26
I agree. The history of Britain has to be rewritten.... not precisely in that way, though, but recognizing both theirs remarkable achievements and the crimes that nation commited to others.

Edited by pinguin - 02-Oct-2007 at 05:27
Back to Top
King John View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 01-Dec-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1366 		  Quote King John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 05:38
What crimes, Pinguin? It doesn't have to be rewritten at all.

Edited by King John - 02-Oct-2007 at 05:38
Back to Top
Justinian View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
King of Númenor

Joined: 11-Nov-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1399 		  Quote Justinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 05:39
His example ruins his own argument.  Claiming the turks held up the armada wouldn't rewrite british history, it would simply make brits aware of the significance of the turkish/habsburg conflict in the mediterranean and elsewhere.  It is simply learning more history, not revising it.  I think that example is true by the way, the turks and spanish had fought each other quite intensely recently*, thinking of Lepanto and such.  I am pretty sure there was a thread that covered this very issue.  Just remembered it the Charles V versus Suleiman the Magnificent.  Its closed but has some information on this conflict.
 
Edit: * recently in the context of the spanish armada in 1588 that is.Embarrassed


Edited by Justinian - 02-Oct-2007 at 06:35
"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann

Back to Top
Justinian View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
King of Númenor

Joined: 11-Nov-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1399 		  Quote Justinian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 05:42
My guess would be pinguin wants less bias in british historiography.
"War is a cowardly escape from the problems of peace."--Thomas Mann

Back to Top
Mughal e Azam View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 10-Jul-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 646 		  Quote Mughal e Azam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 06:01
British Crimes in South Africa and India need to be rewritten. They screwed that place up.
Mughal e Azam
Back to Top
Tyranos View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 01-Oct-2007
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 246 		  Quote Tyranos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 06:43
 He's trying to  construe  some kind of socio-cultural-political alliance between British Muslims and British blacks . Very leftist of him.   Historically "Turk" was used  synonymously  for Muslims.  As has been said  here and elsewhere, his own arguement is bad and refutes him.
 
This is the dude.
 
 


Edited by Tyranos - 02-Oct-2007 at 14:52
Back to Top
Heraclius View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 28-Jun-2005
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1231 		  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 07:16
Trevor Phillips has always come across as a complete buffoon to me and wildly out of touch with most people who you would expect to support him.
 
"the head of the new human rights and equality commission."
 
Uck Dead


Edited by Heraclius - 02-Oct-2007 at 07:17
A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
King
King

Suspended

Joined: 06-Dec-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 10:52
Phillips is essentially saying that British history needs to be rewritten to fit his political agenda. No better an idea than rewriting it to fit any political agenda.
 
Yes the Turks and the British were well-disposed to each other on an 'enemy-of-my-enemy' basis at the time, but to distort that to allege that somehow the Ottomans 'held up' the Armada is pure propaganda.
 
I also wonder what on earth people have been reading as 'British history' when they say it doesn't take account of 'British crimes'. I don't think I've ever read any history text on the period that does not fully acknowledge, for instance, the part British shippers played in the slave trade.
 
However it is only accurate to say also that Britain was the first major power to take any action to stop the slave trade.
Back to Top
Reginmund View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 08-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1943 		  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 11:43
In my opinion British history has already been rewritten. History works that glorify the British Empire and gloss over the human tragedies involved have long since lost academic recognition and is to the best of my knowledge not even written anymore, except possibly by marginal extremists. I've yet to read a modern account of British history that does not deal with sensitive aspects such as slavery, genocides, political manipulation or the oppression suffered by the Irish and Scots.
 
If anything needs to be rewritten, it's Black history. We're still being taught how imperialist Europeans harvested slaves from Africa, without being informed of the major part played in this by the Negroid tribes themselves, who were only too happy to raid each other and sell the human spoils to Europeans in return for weaponry and prestige items to further increase the power and prestige of their tribe.
 
The Arabs too need to face up to the fact that they dealt in Black slaves long before European imperialism and for quite some time after the British outlawed the practice as well. Not to forget that Arabs also held about a million European slaves in North Africa until the Dutch and English attacked Algiers in 1816.
 
The bottom line should be that we are all equally responsible for the fate of the millions of slaves throughout history.


Edited by Reginmund - 02-Oct-2007 at 11:44
Back to Top
SuN. View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 26-Sep-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 156 		  Quote SuN. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 12:02
The various crimes against humanity which the British did against so many populations of the world need to be rewritten with equal significance as the conquests of the English of these lands.
God is not great.
Back to Top
hugoestr View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar

Suspended

Joined: 13-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3987 		  Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 14:34
I am just starting to learn about English history in a serious manner. I am currently reading a couple of survey histories of Britain. Both of them seem pretty reflexive. One is the Oxford Illustrated History of Britain and the other one is the companion book for a recent BBC series on British history.

The Oxford book is obviously a lot more scholarly, but even the BBC companion book warns many times about historical legends or former academic interpretations that have fallen out of favor.

The Oxford book is a lot more ethnically inclusive and the BBC one focuses more on kings, politics and war. I like both. Can't we have them all? Here is place for history focusing on king or on parliament, or on social movements, on human rights. It is not like we can only have one book on the subject
Back to Top
Constantine XI View Drop Down
Suspended
Suspended

Suspended

Joined: 01-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5711 		  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 14:42

Or could we put it to Trevor that the Turks helped the Brits defend against the Spanish, only so much as the Brits diverted Spanish pressure away from Ottoman expansion in North Africa?
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 14:46
Originally posted by Justinian

My guess would be pinguin wants less bias in british historiography.
 
Yes. That's what I mean.
 
I also believe the English speaking world could learn something from the Iberian world in the way history is writen: by recording facts, cruelties, crimes, besides the achievements. To describe them fairly and clearly, without avoiding the disgusting events of the past, but without exagerating them either.
 
More important than all. History is not made of good and bad peoples. That could be great for a movie of John Wayne, but hardly is a good manner to record the truth.
 
Just an example, to analyze. When are British historians going to recognize the bombing of Dresden was not only innecesary but a real crime of genocide?
 


Edited by pinguin - 02-Oct-2007 at 14:49
Back to Top
Constantine XI View Drop Down
Suspended
Suspended

Suspended

Joined: 01-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5711 		  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 14:49
Originally posted by pinguin

Originally posted by Justinian

My guess would be pinguin wants less bias in british historiography.
 
Yes. That's what I mean.
 
I also believe the English speaking world could learn something from the Iberian world in the way history is writen: by recording facts, cruelties, crimes, besides the achievements. To describe them fairly and clearly, without avoiding the disgusting even of the past, but without exagerating them either.
 
More important than all. History is not made of good and bad peoples. That could be great for a movie of John Wayne, but hardly is a good manner to record the truth.
 
 
Ok pinguin. Can you provide us with some modern examples of where biased British history is taught at higher education levels - (I am not talking about cartoons or Hollywood movies, unfortunately pop culture in all countries is often intellectually imprecise).
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 14:52
No, I can't.
 
What I can see are the stereotypes that filters in pop culture and that, obviously, have a source in the academics. For instance, the anti-Spanish biass in recording events that confronted both powers is too obvious.
 
Back to Top
Peteratwar View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel


Joined: 17-Apr-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 591 		  Quote Peteratwar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 16:03
Trevor Phillips has his own Agenda and in this case has no basis for it.
 
Pinguin re Dresden. We were at war, it was a marshalling point for troops.
 
The Nazis were remembering the saying 'as ye sow so shall ye reap'.
 
It certainly wasn't genocide a word which is badly misused.
 
There was an interview recently from a Concentration camp survivor who was in Dresden. He said how thankful he and his comrades were to see the bombing
Back to Top
pekau View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Atlantean Prophet

Joined: 08-Oct-2006
Location: Korea, South
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 16:42
Ok... so can someone explain how the Turks are involved with Spanish Armada?
     
   
Join us.
Back to Top
Majkes View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Imperial Ambassador

Joined: 06-May-2006
Location: Poland
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1144 		  Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Oct-2007 at 17:51
Originally posted by King John

What crimes, Pinguin? It doesn't have to be rewritten at all.
 
One of the biggest English crimes is their fotball team keeps beating us in WC or EC qualifications every few years.Angry 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.