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pekau
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Topic: Questions to the Jews... Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 21:39 |
Um... it's may sound silly, but I was just wondering if calling you guys Jew... is it offendin to you? Is there some appropriate terms to describe your people? Should I just call you guys Israelites?
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Dan Carkner
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Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 22:06 |
I am not Jewish, but I spend a lot of time with them ;)
It all depends on context, the word Jew in itself is not offensive. Although I have heard some older people be offended by it, they will correct you to say "Jewish Person".
However if you say it rudely in a sentence it would probably seem ignorant. "Hey, Jew!" "So I saw this Jew walking down the street..."
Israelite just sounds oudated to me ... heh heh.
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Maharbbal
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Posted: 01-Mar-2007 at 22:17 |
You can call us masters!
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Aelfgifu
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Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 04:55 |
It is an interesting question, pekau. I have often wondered about how far the euphenistic culture should be allowed to go...
Of course, if people are offended by a term, it should not be used. But the extreme sensitivity of some people has in many areas lead to the point where people no longer dare adress an issue at all, and become avoidant instead of interested. This not only applies to people of different race or religion, but also for example to people who are physically or mentally handicapped.
An example: Up to about 10 years ago, members of Islam were often adressed as Muhammedans in the Netherlands. The Islamitic society let know that they found this term unpleasant, and within no time, the vocabulaire had switched to the more acceptable and accurate Islamists. This is a positive change.
But an example of negative change: All sorts of words that define some sort of skin colouration are becoming more and more burdened with negative association. Words like negro, coloured, black can often not be used without causing offence. But the problem is, that by now one has to be a master of subtlety to avoid offensive words, and still make your meaning clear. In a column in a paper I read about a woman who wanted to teach her kids right, and asked the black pizza delivery guy what terms he himself used. He aswered: madam, we call ourselves 'negers', and you can call us that too... (The Dutch word neger is not as negatively charged as the English negro, nor is the Dutch word for black. Still, it is not exactly nice either)
I myself asked a friend what he found offensive or not, he replied that he did not find much offensive at all... "It is pretty obvious I am black, you know, it is not like its gonna change if you call it differently"
But, here is the catch: If I would apply this principle on the street, and call an unknown person 'neger' or something, I am sure to offend... Complicated...
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malizai_
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Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 05:33 |
Originally posted by Maharbbal
You can call us masters! |
I knew you were part of some cabal.
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Zagros
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Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 06:32 |
To me it sounds a bit accusatory, so I try to say Jewish.
Edited by Zagros - 02-Mar-2007 at 06:33
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Dolphin
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Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 07:27 |
Ditto, Zagros.
I don't call someone by their religion anyway, like ''Hey, Catholic''. I tend to say, "Hey, Peter" and refer to him as 'a Catholic', the exact same as with a Jewish person.
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Dan Carkner
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Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 09:02 |
An example: Up to about 10 years ago, members of Islam were often
adressed as Muhammedans in the Netherlands. The Islamitic society let
know that they found this term unpleasant, and within no time, the
vocabulaire had switched to the more acceptable and accurate Islamists.
This is a positive change.
I don't live in the Netherlands, but what about "Muslim"? In english you would probably get in trouble for saying Islamist, it's like calling any Jew a Zionist..
I don't call someone by their religion anyway, like ''Hey, Catholic''.
I tend to say, "Hey, Peter" and refer to him as 'a Catholic', the exact
same as with a Jewish person.
Although no catholic would say "hey Catholic, c'mere!" but in Yiddish when you are addressing a person it's presumed you would only be talking to a Jewish person, so you say "Hey, Yid!"(Jew). "How's a Jew doing?" etc. So again I think it's pretty much based on context.
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Maharbbal
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Posted: 02-Mar-2007 at 09:53 |
Yeah, my grandma calls me yid, and it is ok, but if any goyim does , he gets my fist in his face... The reason being that she says it it yiddish whereas anybody else would say it in French which means they'd be using the same term as the fascist during wwii.
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Top Gun
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Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 06:37 |
I don't care at least if you are not begining about the holocaust what some people do
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Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 08:00 |
Very bad to call people names. However, it is a practise that all people of the world do one time or the other. It should be controlled, at least like a bad manner or just plainly biggotry.
By the way, I read somewhere that Jewish people sometimes call Christians and other non-Jewish peoples with the term "Goy" and plural "Goyim".
What does really mean that word? It is an insult or just a way to describe the "other"?
Pinguin
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Dan Carkner
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Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 10:15 |
It's come to be an insulting term. But originally it just meant "nation". Technically anyone who is a non-Jew is a Goy.
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Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 12:16 |
Actually here the fact you can call someone by an insulting nickname shows friendship.
Not kidding.
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Maharbbal
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Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 12:24 |
Originally posted by Top Gun
I don't care at least if you are not begining about the holocaust what some people do |
What is this supposed to mean?
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Kapikulu
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Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 14:58 |
Originally posted by Dolphin
I don't call someone by their religion anyway, like ''Hey, Catholic''. I tend to say, "Hey, Peter" and refer to him as 'a Catholic', the exact same as with a Jewish person. |
But the difference with the Jewish people are, the term their tribes/folks are called is the same with their religious affiliation.
You can be a Catholic, but your nationality can change. However with the Jews, it is the same.
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Dolphin
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Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 16:15 |
Ok, good point, didn't look at it that way. Even if the wrong term is used, if it is not meant offensively and said in innocence, then maybe it's not so bad.
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Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 19:51 |
I'm confused, there were periods in British history when Catholics were treated as Catholics first and then British second. the 16th and 17th centuries spring to mind.
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Maharbbal
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Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 22:41 |
Originally posted by Kapikulu
You can be a Catholic, but your nationality can change. However with the Jews, it is the same. |
You're just about 2,500 years late! You can be an American jew, Russian jew, Iranian jew (although I wouldn't try if I were you), etc. Judaism is a religion like any other, with the slight difference that they rarely try to convert anybody to it.
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Onogur
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Posted: 04-Mar-2007 at 23:08 |
As in every other religion, the Jewish people are converting or at least trying to convert their children, even in case the other parent has a different religion or does not have religion. I know few cases. Is this not a kind of convertion or one of the parents is supreme and the other one does not matter?!
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Top Gun
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Posted: 05-Mar-2007 at 02:55 |
what the hell are you talking about
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