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a gun is not a weapon it's a tool
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xi_tujue View Drop Down
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: a gun is not a weapon it's a tool
    Posted: 30-Aug-2006 at 09:23
Homer: A gun is not a weapon, Marge! It's a tool. Like a butcher's knife or a harpoon or...uh, a...an alligator. ...
 
 
 
What is an weapon or what was the first real weapon?
 
spear: hunting
axa: chopping
knife: cutting
Bow & arrow: hunting
seis(is classidied as and pole arm): reaping
 
sword: killing?!
 
So why is it called the weapon of kings?
 
could it be that the sword is made for well lets say killing or mabey even protecting and nothing else the other weapons are used by peasant and sevants but a king doesn't need to do that stuff only protecting is enough.
 
 
So is the sword the first real weapon or not?
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Posts: 3387 		  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2006 at 09:39
Good one. I think you might be right on this one. There is no other function for a sword than killing, like there is no other purpose for a gun.

Also, A sword would have been extremely expensive, especially in the earlier times, so only the rich would have been able to fight with it, whereas the poor had to fight with whatever weapons came to hand, which would have been household tools.

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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2006 at 14:02
Wait. The gun is for hunting (like hunting deer with a Panzerfaust or M16).
 
And when I saw this, it reminded me a sentence from Shatterpoint. "Opposite to the common belief, a lightsaber is not a weapon, it is the extension of a Jedi." so we could say that a sword is an extension of a man.
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Posts: 568 		  Quote Gundamor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2006 at 14:32
Originally posted by rider

Wait. The gun is for hunting (like hunting deer with a Panzerfaust or M16).

And when I saw this, it reminded me a sentence from Shatterpoint. "Opposite to the common belief, a lightsaber is not a weapon, it is the extension of a Jedi." so we could say that a sword is an extension of a man.


Well you also have different types of the axes,knives,spears etc. Swords like the Machete(though it might just be an oversized knife) are actually good for cutting through jungle or bush. I can think of some big double edged axes that were not built for chopping trees. It would be interesting to go out hunting with a Pike or Sarissa which are types of spears.
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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2006 at 14:46
Shield were earlier weapons than swords.
 
 
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Posts: 3387 		  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2006 at 14:57
Originally posted by rider

Wait. The gun is for hunting (like hunting deer with a Panzerfaust or M16).
 
And when I saw this, it reminded me a sentence from Shatterpoint. "Opposite to the common belief, a lightsaber is not a weapon, it is the extension of a Jedi." so we could say that a sword is an extension of a man.
 
You can hunt deer with a rifle or a shotgun, but I doubt there are many deerhunters with pistols out there.
 
And Star Wars philosophy is invalid in my universe... Wink

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Posts: 3387 		  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2006 at 14:59
Originally posted by Gundamor

Well you also have different types of the axes,knives,spears etc. Swords like the Machete(though it might just be an oversized knife) are actually good for cutting through jungle or bush. I can think of some big double edged axes that were not built for chopping trees. It would be interesting to go out hunting with a Pike or Sarissa which are types of spears.
 
Of courde there are battleaxes which it would be hard to cut a tree with. Tongue My train of thought was that the sword was the only weapon which was specifically designed for fighting, whereas many other weapons evolved from household tools.
 
Don't know about the machete though. I would classify it as a knife rather than a sword, but you have a point there...

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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2006 at 15:00
Originally posted by Aelfgifu

Good one. I think you might be right on this one. There is no other function for a sword than killing, like there is no other purpose for a gun.

Also, A sword would have been extremely expensive, especially in the earlier times, so only the rich would have been able to fight with it, whereas the poor had to fight with whatever weapons came to hand, which would have been household tools.
Wow 8th world wonderBig smile
 
How advanced does a lets say culture or sociaty need to be for being able to make a sword. Or how good do they need to be in ironworking. Because well african tribes don't have swords. Indians didn't but they didn't have metal so.
 
Were did the sword came from.
 
btw rider if your not a jedi or and shoalin monk a sword is a weapon.
 
accualy a gun lets say a musket was made for killing at first so its a weapon
I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage
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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2006 at 15:04
What no SW philosophy? Unfair this is and on this act we must.
 
 
Weapons all different purposes have. To javelin a squirrel you can, to hunt that is. To pierce a boar to a wall, sarissa can. A pack of wolves destroyed easily phalanx by is. Massacre that would be.
 
Muscet good to hunt with is. To hunt a man not meant it should be for.
 
 
NB! The last sentence translates as: It should not be meant for hunting men.
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Posts: 3387 		  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2006 at 15:13
LOL

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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2006 at 15:25
What?LOLLOL
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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2006 at 18:08
Originally posted by Aelfgifu

Originally posted by Gundamor

Well you also have different types of the axes,knives,spears etc. Swords like the Machete(though it might just be an oversized knife) are actually good for cutting through jungle or bush. I can think of some big double edged axes that were not built for chopping trees. It would be interesting to go out hunting with a Pike or Sarissa which are types of spears.
 
Of courde there are battleaxes which it would be hard to cut a tree with. Tongue My train of thought was that the sword was the only weapon which was specifically designed for fighting, whereas many other weapons evolved from household tools.
 
Don't know about the machete though. I would classify it as a knife rather than a sword, but you have a point there...
 
Swords are used in religious ceremonies, human sacrifice and executions.
 
Whereas machine guns, whilst being a hunters dream, I'd say count as a weapon only.
 
 
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Aug-2006 at 22:03
Originally posted by xi_tujue

Homer: A gun is not a weapon, Marge! It's a tool. Like a butcher's knife or a harpoon or...uh, a...an alligator. ...
 
 
 
What is an weapon or what was the first real weapon?
 
spear: hunting
axa: chopping
knife: cutting
Bow & arrow: hunting
seis(is classidied as and pole arm): reaping
 
sword: killing?!
 
So why is it called the weapon of kings?
 
could it be that the sword is made for well lets say killing or mabey even protecting and nothing else the other weapons are used by peasant and sevants but a king doesn't need to do that stuff only protecting is enough.
 
 
So is the sword the first real weapon or not?
 
===================
 
Homer was right for a lot of reasons... to include the metaphysical. but as to the question...my money is on a rock quickly followed by a stick.Wink
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Posts: 581 		  Quote Goban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 01:14
Weapons and tools are the same.Smile
 
Think about it in evolutionary terms. The sword and gun began their lives in the oldowan when a H. habilis put the first edge on a chunk of sedimentary rock. Or when earlier primates smacked open a nut with a fallen tree limb. It was just a matter of time until someone finally upset them enough to bludgeon them with it...
 
So, the rock became the scraper, which begat the knife and then the sword.
 
And the rock became the scraper which begat the spear head, then the arrow head and finally the gun.  
 
Big smile
 
But seriously, many weapons derived from normal tools and just about anything can be considered a weapon.
 
The tools that are manufactured today for the sole purpose of killing may indeed have once been a tool that benefited all of humanity... Maybe...
 
 
 
  
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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 03:18

I'd pose another arguement:

all weapons are tools because they lower the population count and without them, Earth might be much more overpopulated.
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Posts: 3387 		  Quote Aelfgifu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 12:53
Originally posted by rider

I'd pose another arguement:

all weapons are tools because they lower the population count and without them, Earth might be much more overpopulated.

 
hm, we may be good at murdering our own species, but I doubt we are quite that good...LOL

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Posts: 4664 		  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 12:56
Well, if you consider both WW's, nukes, and everything else from Kadesh that have destroyed men then the list will be pretty long.
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Posts: 5711 		  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 17:57
As it turns out, most naturally useful things in our environment can be used to harm people. I think the first weapon was the humble rock, or branch.
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2006 at 07:19
Originally posted by rider

I'd pose another arguement:

all weapons are tools because they lower the population count and without them, Earth might be much more overpopulated.

 
accualyy you're wrong without the early humans wouldn't be able to become the dominat species of the earth. without weapons we would be the hunted not the hunter.
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Posts: 581 		  Quote Goban Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2006 at 01:08
I agree.
 
 Humans are possibly one of the best engineered cohabitants of our planet.
 
We are extremely intelligent, possess a very efficient cooling system (upright posture, sweat glands, etc...), and can survive and flourish in any climate.
 
We can swim relatively fast and over great distances. We are fast runners with great endurance (actually better than most). We also  brachiates with the best of the primates.
 
But in spite of our all-terrain ruggedness, we are quite weak in comparison...
 
Example-If you or I were to come face to face with an African lion, let's face it, we would be nothing more than a very intelligent and sophisticated stool buried in the sands of the Serengeti...Tongue
Not to mention our survival in the megafauna hunting grounds of the plio-pleistocene...
 
But we did survive, and quite well for that matter. In fact many believe that the mass extinction of the megafauna was due to humans (with the dramatic change in climate still fighting for first place). This would not have been the case without some technological advantage.
 
Well, in the spirit of the thread, when is it too much? Today we can alter life, change our climate and destroy, well, just about anything. We now live in a world where we can create artificial climates (heating and air-conditioning, etc..) quickly travel to any part of the world and receive knowledge and information within a mere few seconds.
 
We are the masters of our environment and slaves to it as well. How many would suffer if we lost power and/or resources today?
 
 
 
 
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