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Anton
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Topic: The Macedonian Question. Posted: 01-Apr-2008 at 17:31 |
Whate else would you expect from selfish Bulgarian ruling Greece? :)
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Flipper
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Posted: 01-Apr-2008 at 17:43 |
The idea was that you would be Greek foreign minister, not the Bulgarian foreign minister of Greece hehe.
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Anton
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Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 00:25 |
I do not know, mate. I never was PM or Greek :) Probably ban is best action for most Greeks. Is it best action for the solution of your problem, I am not sure. Next time when you share Bulgarian nation with Serbs in 4th Balkan war, thihnk on the consequences that will happen in 100 years
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Leonidas
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Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 00:31 |
Originally posted by Zagros
I mean the FYROM; they should invade and change the name of the country as well as its constitution. Such a thing is now legal under international law relating to wars of aggression since the UK and US did it in Iraq, they also pushed for a literal change to that effect. |
hehe, well i dont think they will repeat the mistakes of the anglophones in direct engagement. Why go to so much trouble when the albanians can do the job for you? in the end the only thing stopping them from making Tetevo a state is outside materail support for Skopje, including Greece.
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Flipper
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Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 20:52 |
It is over... FYRO Macedonia stays outside NATO.
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Theodore Felix
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Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 21:35 |
Wednesday, 02 April 2008
Greece should be punished with sanctions if it blocks Macedonia's admission to NATO, German Green MEP Angelika Beer said in an interview for Deutsche Welle.
"If the veto does happen, I believe that we should consider sanctions against Greece to make it understand that it cannot bring schism in the alliance because of its own nationalist interests," Beer said.
According to Beer, the growing nationalism in Greece hampers the further expansion of NATO and poses a serious security risk.
"This dispute over Macedonia shows that some European nations started to play with very important security-political issues simply because it suits their own national interests. It is unacceptable position," Beer told Deutsche Welle.
Beer, however, hopes that Greece will quit its plan to veto Macedonia's membership in NATO given the existential and security interests in the region.
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akritas
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Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 21:47 |
Originally posted by Theodore Felix
Wednesday, 02 April 2008
Greece should be punished with sanctions if it blocks Macedonia's admission to NATO, German Green MEP Angelika Beer said in an interview for Deutsche Welle. "If the veto does happen, I believe that we should consider sanctions against Greece to make it understand that it cannot bring schism in the alliance because of its own nationalist interests," Beer said.
According to Beer, the growing nationalism in Greece hampers the further expansion of NATO and poses a serious security risk.
"This dispute over Macedonia shows that some European nations started to play with very important security-political issues simply because it suits their own national interests. It is unacceptable position," Beer told Deutsche Welle.
Beer, however, hopes that Greece will quit its plan to veto Macedonia's membership in NATO given the existential and security interests in the region. |
For your information during the crucial dinner of NATO member-state leaders the NATO members Germany, France, Spain and Italy stand close beside to the Greek position as real NATO allies when USA and Canada followed the Bush dogma Youre either with us or against us".
Bush administration divide with his policy and the NATO alliance.
Edited by akritas - 02-Apr-2008 at 21:50
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Flipper
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Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 22:05 |
Originally posted by Theodore Felix
"If the veto does happen, I believe that we should consider sanctions against Greece to make it understand that it cannot bring schism in the alliance because of its own nationalist interests," Beer said. |
That statement is hypocrisy from Beer...Specifically "it cannot bring schism in the alliance because of its own nationalist interests". The three keywords are "nationalist", "schism" and "interests". What about the nationalist interests of the other part? What about whos interested in building more bases near Russia? What about the schism when you try to put two countries that are not doing well in the same alliance?
Edited by Flipper - 02-Apr-2008 at 22:09
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Flipper
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Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 22:17 |
Originally posted by akritas
For your information during the crucial dinner of NATO member-state leaders the NATO members Germany, France, Spain and Italy stand close beside to the Greek position as real NATO allies when USA and Canada followed the Bush dogma Youre either with us or against us".
Bush administration divide with his policy and the NATO alliance.
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Bulgaria, Luxemburg and Iceland in a certain extend as well, lean to Greeces side.
Edited by Flipper - 02-Apr-2008 at 22:18
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Anton
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Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 22:47 |
Yep, Skopje was disappointed by Bulgarian position which was something from the sort of -- "History should not be falsified by any side"
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Anton
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Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 22:56 |
Originally posted by akritas
For your information during the crucial dinner of NATO member-state leaders the NATO members Germany, France, Spain and Italy stand close beside to the Greek position as real NATO allies when USA and Canada followed the Bush dogma Youre either with us or against us".
Bush administration divide with his policy and the NATO alliance. |
This is actually pragmatism rather than standing with Greece. Only members with no geopolitical problems were invited. Georgia and Ukraina were not invited either.
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Vorian
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Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 23:18 |
Originally posted by Theodore Felix
Wednesday, 02 April 2008
Greece should be punished with sanctions if it blocks Macedonia's admission to NATO, German Green MEP Angelika Beer said in an interview for Deutsche Welle.
"If the veto does happen, I believe that we should consider sanctions against Greece to make it understand that it cannot bring schism in the alliance because of its own nationalist interests," Beer said.
According to Beer, the growing nationalism in Greece hampers the further expansion of NATO and poses a serious security risk.
"This dispute over Macedonia shows that some European nations started to play with very important security-political issues simply because it suits their own national interests. It is unacceptable position," Beer told Deutsche Welle.
Beer, however, hopes that Greece will quit its plan to veto Macedonia's membership in NATO given the existential and security interests in the region. |
LOL, we are the only nationalistic ones, Skopians are innocent sheep.
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Flipper
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Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 23:30 |
Originally posted by Anton
Yep, Skopje was disappointed by Bulgarian position |
I knew it would happen a long time ago. I'm not suprised at all...You were the first country to recognise them and show goodwill and what happened next? They brought translators in the first meeting with your official I would like to see the faces of those officials back then...It would be like WTF?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?! Like if i the Hellenic Republic and Cyprus would need to translators for their international communication.
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Vorian
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Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 23:49 |
Like if i the Hellenic Republic and Cyprus would need to translators for their international communication. |
Well sometimes it IS hard to understand them Just kidding
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Flipper
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Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 23:59 |
LOL, yeah but that's when they speak to each other fast some very local dialect. We all understand perfectly what they say on TV or when their politicians make speaches.
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Leonidas
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Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 00:49 |
The German Green is out of line, they push ethno-nationalism to split up Yugoslavia, kosovo anyone, it is all good 'for freeedom and democracy' when it suites them but when it doesnt fit into their plans, its 'nationalism' gone wrong. His opinion wont change the situation
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Theodore Felix
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Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 02:51 |
http://www.balkanweb.com/sitev4/index.php?id=18910
The article is in Albanian. Here is a summarized translation:
Skopje: Anti-Greek and Anti-Albanian protest in defense of their name.
Many Macedonian protestors marched in the center of Skpoje while chanting anti-Greek and anti-Albanian slogans in defense of the name "Macedonia". The protest developed in front of Parliament in the center of the Macedonian capital where the protesters held the national flag in support of the name "Macedonia". "The name Macedonia will not die, let the Greeks and Albanians know this." yelled the protesters.
Edited by Theodore Felix - 03-Apr-2008 at 02:56
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akritas
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Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 15:07 |
A intresting article that present the Greek thesis as about the issue (FYROM entrance in NATO) post it from SAE and you can read it here.
Below a abstract....
Edited by akritas - 03-Apr-2008 at 15:10
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Chilbudios
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Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 16:04 |
I start to agree with those saying Greece is over-reacting on this. It was said earlier in the thread this was about Macedonian constitution claiming territory, or other serious issues which I could sympathize with. But it seems some Greeks (including officials) do not want to give up on the name thing rather for the sake of history or their national pride (see that "Greek identity for more than three millenia" in the last paper). The issue of necessary distinction is simply a red herring as long as today in the world exist many places having the same name. A normal Greece, in my opinion, should pursue to change the mentality of Macedonians, instead of changing their name.
The last picture is hilarious with its comment. In 1903, when Gotse Delcev died (on the territory of today Greece, by the way), Macedonia was not part of Greece. And Gotse Delcev militated for an independent Macedonia, the map represents that man's ideals. The comments are thus miguided. Do you believe that a bust of Trajan near a map of the Roman Empire represents a territorial claim of Italy over half of Europe? Many "national heroes" (Goce Delcev is a hero for Bulgarians, too, by the way) are represented together with their ideals or some symbols considered representative. Greece should react to the real threats not have allergic reactions to any map of "Greater Macedonia".
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akritas
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Posted: 03-Apr-2008 at 16:38 |
If in the Greek nationalist number you add the 120 US Senates (Obama, Snow, Menentez e.t.c.) that expressing the sense of the Senate that the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) should stop the utilization of materials that violate provisions of the United Nations-brokered Interim Agreement between FYROM and Greece regarding `hostile activities or propaganda' and should work with the United Nations and Greece to achieve longstanding United States and United Nations policy goals of finding a mutually-acceptable official name for FYROM (110th USA Senate resolution 300)........ then Chilbudios ......I am a Greek nationalist.!!!
A picture is worth a thousand words is a proverb that refers to the idea that complex stories can be described with just a single still image and you using the ten words. Greece does not dispute that a part of historic Macedonia lies within FYROM and she is prepared to accept a compound name. But FYROM insists on being sole claimant to the name of a whole area, the largest part of which lies outside its borders as the 990 words of this picrure showing clear.
Edited by akritas - 03-Apr-2008 at 16:44
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