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Dream208
Pretorian
Joined: 22-Jan-2006
Location: China
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Posts: 176
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Topic: World Powers (millitary) Posted: 26-Sep-2006 at 01:09 |
China vs Japan full out war began at 1937. The US direct involvement at 1941.
Russia was unified, China was still recovering my civil war and warlordism.
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olkiej
Knight
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Joined: 23-Sep-2006
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Posts: 57
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Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 06:14 |
Originally posted by Dream208
China vs Japan full out war began at 1937. The US direct involvement at 1941.
Russia was unified, China was still recovering my civil war and warlordism.
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omergun
Samurai
Joined: 24-Sep-2006
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 106
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Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 15:10 |
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon
spain's military can kick anybody's ass
if spain wanted to, it can kick turkey's butt! |
who are you to talk like this, Trkish millitary will make pieces of spain.
Edited by omergun - 02-Oct-2006 at 15:25
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omergun
Samurai
Joined: 24-Sep-2006
Location: Turkey
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Posts: 106
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Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 15:20 |
Originally posted by perikles
USA is out of comparison. I can't believe that Turkey is above of UK in military power. The numbers are shown a superiority(I doudbt if the numbers we saw are for real)!!
But in the war many other things are crucial. Who is the attacker, what are the level of training of the amries, what are the strategy, the diplomacy, the allies but first of all is the Economy. Let's say that Turkey starts a war with Sysria. How long it is going to last. 1 week most. Turkey has not the economic power to last more. None in the region, except Israel, can do that. The fuels Turkey has are lasting for 10 days. Greece has the same problem. All the countries in the region. In mediteranean Israel, Italy and Spain are considered super powers. |
You again? What do you have against Trkiye. You just cant stand we are one of the strongest countries in the world. Do I have to answer you again? Didnt i made it clear in the other topic. Ill make a quote of my message.
I dont know who wrote this, you are right that a country's military strength depends not only on the weapons it possess but also in its military character and willingness to fight till the end, but I can easily say that Trks are the number one in the world with military character and willingness to fight to the end. Anyone who knows Trkish history knows this fact. Ask all the generals in the world, they would all agree even if they are haters.
Coming to the main subject, again sorry i couldnt read all posts. Trkiye is definetely the strongest Muslim country at present. I dont want to deep in weapons, nuke etc., because in this modern time every country is able to create every kind of chemical weapons. You could easily copy another countries teqnology, weapon etc., so weapons are not the first priority which desides who is the strongest in the world. Even if you have developped a great nuke, you can only use a part of it, unless you want to destroy the whole world within your own country.
Iran is also a strong Muslim country. Based on recently news people say Iran is developping great nukes. We have to know that every country has his secrets, not every country tells their chemical researches, so we normal people could not know what level each countries nuke is. Almost 50 procent of the population of Iran are Trks. So in a war against Trkiye this will be a big problem. So Iran is definitely not stronger than Trkiye.
One thing most people also dont know that there are several Trkish Republics like Azerbaycan, NorthernTrkishCyprus, Kazakistan, Ozbekistan, Trkmenistan and Kirgizistan. And there are lots of autonomous Trkish Republics. In circumstances of war all these Republics will be one force.
The most important fact about Trks is their proud, love and bravery for their country which has no other example in the world. Most armies problems are that they couldnot force the whole population to fight for their country. If there is a war 100 procent of the Trkish population will fight, women, children included, they will all fight till the end. There is no other example of this in the world.
Finally i have to say that Trkiye is not only the strongest Muslim country but also one of the strongest in the world. The only weakness of Trkiye is that they dont have trustable allies, which most countries all have. Economy and outside politics which are positive in the present are also a big factors. Why do you think Trkiye still isnt in the European Union, they are afraid us, that we will improve the factors i just wrote. |
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xristar
Chieftain
Joined: 05-Nov-2005
Location: Greece
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Posts: 1028
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Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 16:53 |
The 'turkish' republics, that are a great hit currently in Turkey it seems, are a myth of Panturkists. Even though it is true that many central Asian republics have a cultural relation with Turkey in that they are part of the same linguistic group, still political and economical interests, who moe this world, do not coincide.
Also, something that many in my country also fail to see, is that there are no special abilities in nations, that make them better or worse soldiers. It is only the training and the ideology that make soldiers better. You seem to think that turks are the most devoted to their country, but I assure you, in Greece we are quite nationalist too. If you ever be in a war with Greece I believe that apparently you all (turks) will be unpleasantly surprised by the fact that the Greeks are not the cowards that seek only their luxury, that you have been told they are.
And playing a little with your game, I find it amusing that the turks are so proud and sure of their fighting qualities, when in the records of the Cyrpus war (the most recent), the comments I've seen for the turkish soldiers were bad. The turkish soldier was clumsy and afraid, and whenever he fought without armour support, his performance was very poor.
Cheers.
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Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
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nikodemos
Shogun
Joined: 24-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 248
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Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 19:08 |
Originally posted by omergun
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon
spain's military can kick anybody's ass
if spain wanted to, it can kick turkey's butt! |
who are you to talk like this, Trkish millitary will make pieces of spain.
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The sinews of war are infinite money.
I don't remember who said that but he was absolutely right.
The economy of Spain cannot be compared to the crumbling economy of
Turkey.Turkey's economy would collapse after a week of fighting.
Turkey cannot construct a single weapon.You spend fortunes to buy
weapons just as we do(Greece).On the contrary,Spain has a weapon
industry.They possess the knowledge and technology to construct the
weapons they need.
Spain is by no means comparable to turkey i think.
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omergun
Samurai
Joined: 24-Sep-2006
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 106
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Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 19:37 |
Originally posted by xristar
The 'turkish' republics, that are a great hit
currently in Turkey it seems, are a myth of Panturkists. Even though it
is true that many central Asian republics have a cultural relation with
Turkey in that they are part of the same linguistic group, still
political and economical interests, who moe this world, do not coincide.
Also, something that many in my country also fail to see, is that
there are no special abilities in nations, that make them better or
worse soldiers. It is only the training and the ideology that make
soldiers better. You seem to think that turks are the most devoted to
their country, but I assure you, in Greece we are quite nationalist
too. If you ever be in a war with Greece I believe that apparently you
all (turks) will be unpleasantly surprised by the fact that the Greeks
are not the cowards that seek only their luxury, that you have been
told they are.
And playing a little with your game, I find it amusing that the
turks are so proud and sure of their fighting qualities, when in the
records of the Cyrpus war (the most recent), the comments I've seen for
the turkish soldiers were bad. The turkish soldier was clumsy and
afraid, and whenever he fought without armour support, his performance
was very poor.
Cheers. |
If you ever be in a war with Greece...
I think close history already shows what would happen.
when in the records of the Cyrpus war (the most recent), the comments
I've seen for the turkish soldiers were bad. The turkish soldier was clumsy and
afraid, and whenever he fought without armour support, his performance was very
poor.
Its nonsense and total bull, that Trkish soldair were like you
described in the Cyprus
war. Let me tell shortly the history of Cyprus
and the Cyprus
war. The Osmanli Empire conquered Cyprus in 1571. In a lost battle Cyprus came in the hands of england in 1878. In 1950 there Cyprus became independend, england gave
the right of 70 %(why do you think) of the government to the greeks, and 30% to
The Trks. So Cyprus
was in the hand of greeks. When time was passing the greeks couldnt handle the
fact that Trks were also(even if minority) a part of the government of Cyprus. They
started making racist movements, and in years they were planning a massacre on
The Trks. In order to complete enosis(greek), eoka terrorists and greek
soldair were starting with the acritas plan. Starting in 25 december 1963, they
killed thousands of innocent Trkish children, woman and old people. Now
the whole government was in the hand of greeks. In 1967 the greek army tried to
attack Geitkale-Boğazii, but retreated because they were afraid of army of
Trkiye.
At this moment Trkiye attacked the greek-english Cyprus in 1974. On July 15,
1974 the Greek Nikos Sampson initiated a military coup on Cyprus and
Archbishop Makarios was forced to abdicate his position as president. This
event and an escalation of attacks on the Trkish minority caused great concern
in Trkiye.
By the 16th Trkish military forces were put on high alert and several units
went ahead with their wartime deployments. Light T-37C FAC and attack aircraft of
the 122. Filo pilot training squadron at igli were dispersed to umaovasi
south of Izmir.
The all-weather interceptor 142. Filo at Mrted went to Balikesir. The F-5A
daylight interceptor unit, 152. Filo, dispersed from Merzifon to Yenisehir. The
181. Attack Filo with F-100Cs and Ds was flown from Diyarbakir
to Antalya and
its co-located reconnaissance 184. Reconnaissance Filo was sent to Inirlik.
182. Filo with F-102As went from Mrted to Eskisehir whereas the F-104G unit, 191. Filo
was redeployed from Balikesir to Mrted. The important sea surveillance unit,
301. Filo with S-2Es at Bandirma, was sent south to Antalya. At the same time mobile radar units
were placed on the southern coast of Trkiye, opposite Cyprus.
After hectic, but futile negotiations, where Britain
failed to assert for a return to a normal situation on Cyprus, war
operations were started by Trkiye on July 20th, in order to protect the Trkish
population. The actual war operations, which followed plans already prepared in
1960 when the Trkish population on Cyprus was threatened, were
implemented in two stages. The first from July 20th until 1700 hours on the
22nd when the northern outskirts of Nicosia
were taken, and with only defensive and transport air operations performed on
the 23rd. The second stage which lasted from August 14th until an armistice was
affected at 1900 hours on the 16th, resulted in the Trkish Army seizing
Farmagusta. On July 20th at 0449 hours a RF-84F reconnaissance aircraft was launched from
the Inirlik Air Base as the first action. The assault on the island itself was
planned for 0600 on the 20th, with an airborne assault at Gnyeli (10 km NW of Nicosia) by 19
C-47s and at Kirni by six C-130s and eleven C-160Ds. All went well, but three
aircraft were hit by anti-aircraft fire. A C-130 and a C-160 only sustained
light damage, whereas C-47 no.6035 caught fire and only barely made an
emergency landing near Silifke on the Trkish mainland. Meanwhile commando
soldiers and Navy Seals secured the coastal road and initiated the seaborne
landing at Karaolanolu 6
miles west of Kyrenia (Girne). A large force of 72 transport
helicopters of various types of UH-1s from all Trkish forces had been put
under command of the 2nd Armys helicopter Regiment. This force assembled at a
temporary operating area near Tasuu, at the southern most point at the
mainland Trkiye. From here a combined assault into the areas taken by the
airborne troops started at 0707 hours. Ten helicopters were damaged by ground
fire as they approached in the perfect V- formation. Later in the day tactics
were changed into sudden low level approaches and only two more helicopters
received hits. After intensive attacks from the air a second wave of airborne
drops was affected by one C-47, 12 C-160s and six C-130s at 1255 and a third
wave consisting of six C-160s and three C-130s just before sunset. These last
two waves did not take any anti-aircraft fire. Air operations terminated at
2115 hours on the first day after 6000 troops had been put ashore and a
bridgehead secured.irst day of operations included 117 ground attacks, 64
airborne assaults, 18 reconnaissance missions and eight air defence sorties. Air
Force losses were one F-100D (55-3756) of 171.Filo, one F-100C (54-2042) of 132.Filo,
one RF-84F
of 184.Filo and the one C-47 (6035) making a crash landing. The only Air Force
aircrew fatality was 1.Lt. Ilker Karter of the 184. Filo, the pilot of the RF-84F. Twelve Army helicopters
received light damage and a Do.28D on a clandestine mission crashed with all
its occupants being killed. July 21.Renewed operations were launched at 0550
hours to attack reported Cyprus
troops massing for attack. Included in the attack were Super Sabres from 131,
132, 171 and 172.Filos. 184. Filo provided reconnaissance support. A large
convoy of 40 vehicles was spotted on the road winding from Paphos to Nicosia and it was
vigorously attacked and destroyed at 0755. The effect of this event was that
many Cyprus
troops gave up their arms as soon as an aircraft was heard approaching. The
battles that day resulted in the Turkish army taking Kyrenia (Girne) but at the
high cost of 21 fatalities.
Meanwhile on the evening of the 20th, reports had been circulating of a Greek
ship convoy having been spotted west of the Paphos harbour, on its way from Rhodes. This serious event caused a special alert for the
radar units, and S-2Es from the 301. Filo from Antalya were sent to investigate. The radar
reports indicated Greek naval manoeuvrering and later reports spoke of 4
destroyers and 7 transport ships. On the 21st, early in the morning, a RF-84F of 184. Filo piloted by the
Filo commander, Lt. Col. Yetkiner, made a thorough investigation. His report
was frank: "I have seen nothing!" At the same time, however the Radar
station at Anamur and a radar sweep by the S-2Es reported several targets. The
question was, is it the US
6th fleet or something else? As the morning became day attacks were planned on
the "convoy" and the Trkish Navy confirmed that it had no ships in
that sector. At 1300 the Air Force gave the target clear for attack, ordering
the 111. Filo with F-100Ds and 141. Filo with F-104Gs to get ready to attack at
1335. Later the 181.Filo was also alerted. At 1400 the departures got under way
with 111. Filo launching 16 F-100Ds at Eskisehir
between 1410 and 1416 and 181. Filo launching 12 F-100Ds from Antalya between 1430 and 1503. Each of the 28
aircraft carried two 750
pound bombs.
Sixteen F-104Gs of 141.Filo each carrying a 750 pound bomb departed
from Ankara/Mrted in the time from 1443 to 1451. In addition two more
Filos, 112. Filo with F-100Cs and 191. Filo with F-104Gs were put on ready
alert. Before more could be done, however a message was received at 1530 that
the aircraft had attacked and sunk a Trkish ship. Later F-104Gs of 191. Filo
made a thorough reconnaissance of the area north and west of Cyprus only
reporting 4 small vessels. At 2010 air operations for the day were called off
with a total of 203 attack and 19 reconnaissance missions,
28 air defence and 23 transport sorties flown (not including army helicopter
operations). The day however had seen the loss of four F-100s (a D 55-2825 of
111.Filo and a C.54-2083 of 112.Filo being two of them) and an F-104G (64-17783
of 191.Filo), fortunately without casualties.
July 22. At 0506 in
the early morning of the 22nd it was confirmed that the Turkish destroyer
"Koatepe" had been sunk. Three hours later four C-130s dropped
medical provisions to the rescue forces in the waters north of Cyprus. Meanwhile
at 1115 hours in the land battle, 15 C-47s dropped 300 paratroopers in an
attack on the area south of Gnyeli, 5 km north of Nicosia. At 1435 17 F-104Gs of 141.Filo
attacked the Nicosia
airport with 750 pound
bombs. This caused the fighting there to stop. At 1535 the Trkish General
Command announced an armistice from 1700 onwards. The day had seen 122 attack
and 12 reconnaissance missions, 23 air defence and 19 transport sorties
completed. An F-5A belonging to the Greek Air Force was seen crashing after an
attempt to engage an F-102A (55-3401) flown by Capt. Onur from 142.Filo in an
air battle. (some Turkish sources claim that the F-5 was shot down by a Falcon
missile)
The days losses were one pilot ejecting from an F-100D (54-2238 of 172.F) and two aircraft
destroyed in landing accidents, an F-102A (55-3413) and an F-100C. All three pilots
survived.
Im tired of translating and copying texts. Ill explain shortly what happened after
this. Finally in 1975 Trkiye conqured the Northern Cyprus
Trkish Republic
easily in a short time, only for the safety of his people. So thats what
happened in the Cyprus
war. We crushed and conqured you easily in a short time. Does this look like we
were afraid, i dont think so. Next time please have respect for The Trkish
Army, whom is one of the strongest army in the world.
Edited by omergun - 02-Oct-2006 at 19:43
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omergun
Samurai
Joined: 24-Sep-2006
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 106
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Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 19:48 |
Originally posted by nikodemos
Originally posted by omergun
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon
spain's military can kick anybody's ass
if spain wanted to, it can kick turkey's butt! |
who are you to talk like this, Trkish millitary will make pieces of spain.
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The sinews of war are infinite money.
I don't remember who said that but he was absolutely right.
The economy of Spain cannot be compared to the crumbling economy of
Turkey.Turkey's economy would collapse after a week of fighting.
Turkey cannot construct a single weapon.You spend fortunes to buy
weapons just as we do(Greece).On the contrary,Spain has a weapon
industry.They possess the knowledge and technology to construct the
weapons they need.
Spain is by no means comparable to turkey i think.
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Having and creating weopons has nothing to do with economy, do you realy think Trkish Army is going to minimize on weapons because of economical circumstances?
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Celestial
Janissary
Joined: 24-Sep-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28
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Posted: 02-Oct-2006 at 23:04 |
USA and Russia are first.
China
UK
France
India
Israel
Italy
Turkey
Spain
Portugal
Iran
That is all I can think of.
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xristar
Chieftain
Joined: 05-Nov-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1028
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Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 04:21 |
Omergun, the Cyprus campaign of the turkish army, the last operation of this magniduteof the turkish army, was pathetic. Turkey had planned the invasion for a decade (ever since the civil war of 1964), and when the time finally came they realized they could not land their heavy equipment!
And after they landed unopposed more than 5000 infantrymen, they were locked for two days in a bridgehead of some hundreds meters dimensions, by two or three cypriot battalions, each of 350-400 men. And in the second night they were almost collapsed (somthing turks admit). They had to land tanks first before they were able to progress a little.
Apart from the land operations, in the air they lost 54 airplanes, without any enemy airforce! 27 planes due to AA fire, and 27 due to accidents!
Ah, and something you mention only briefly. How terrified the turkish command was only in the idea of the greek navy approaching, that it resulted in a turkish destroyer being sunk, and others damaged. You don't say it, but hundreds of turkish sailors drowned, by the turkish amateurism.
Study the arabisraeli war of 1973, to understand the situation of Greece and Turkey.
And to you all turks who think that Turkey is a great power, I direct you to Mussolinis Italy, 'of 1,500,000 lances', to understand that big words are nothing but empty.
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Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
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Vivek Sharma
Arch Duke
Joined: 22-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1775
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Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 04:47 |
Military strength today is a direct derivcative of economical & diplomatic clout.
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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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nikodemos
Shogun
Joined: 24-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 248
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Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 06:23 |
Originally posted by omergun
Having and creating weopons has nothing to do
with economy, do you realy think Trkish Army is going to minimize on
weapons because of economical circumstances?
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No,creating weapons has a lot to do with economy.Anyway,I don't think
that turkey will reduce the amount of money spent on armament.But buying
advanced weapon technology from other countries shows that turkey is
not a military power.All the weaponry of turkey is dependent on the
American technology.So in fact turkey is dependent on the United
states.This doesn't make turkey a military power as you can understand.
Since you don't make your weapons,you are dependent on the countries
from which you bought it.This doesn't have to do only with finding
spare parts or compatible ammunition.It has also to do with the
functioning of your weapons.All the weapons(those that function
electronically) have codes you know.So their electronic systems can be
accessed and manipulated.You can imagine what happens if the country
from which you buy weapons has such interests which are not the same as
that of your country.
Edited by nikodemos - 03-Oct-2006 at 06:33
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Vivek Sharma
Arch Duke
Joined: 22-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1775
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Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 06:32 |
This would make Sweden a world power.
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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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nikodemos
Shogun
Joined: 24-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 248
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Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 06:35 |
Sweden doesn't want to intervene to world politics. But they could
become a military power if they wanted to.In fact they were in the past
a dreadfull military power.
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Vivek Sharma
Arch Duke
Joined: 22-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1775
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Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 07:34 |
They have a very good arms industry.
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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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perikles
Consul
Joined: 28-Jul-2006
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 373
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Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 09:12 |
Turkey made the super cobra by itself. If USA cut the supply of the spare parts what you will use in cobras.
And whe we say that Turkey constucts the weapons by itself we mean that you assembly the eweapons. The parts are coming from usa.
Greece has developed the anti air Artemis, and leonidas. We constaructed everything by ourselves.At least we were.
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Samos national guard.
260 days left.
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nikodemos
Shogun
Joined: 24-Aug-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 248
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Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 09:35 |
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma
They have a very good arms industry.
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One of the best in the world.They produce perhaps the best third generation fighter : the Grippen.
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Antioxos
Consul
Joined: 26-Apr-2006
Location: Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 340
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Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 10:00 |
If the politics cannot grow the level of life of a nation they usually feed the people with nationalism,superheroes and super power of the world.Marx used to say that religion is the opium of the people , today we have to add nationalism also.
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xristar
Chieftain
Joined: 05-Nov-2005
Location: Greece
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1028
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Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 10:03 |
perikles, turkish arms industry is as developed as greek. Turkey has also produced armoured vehicles and self propelled guns, and intends to produce tanks and helicopters in the future. In this aspect Turkey is ahead of Greece, which sticks in buying weapons from outside, and not producing them here with licence (that would be more expensive keep in mind). That's what the new law about arms purchases was about, which included that in every purchase greek industry will participate. A hopeful sign the last two years is that the greek arms industry has increased greatly its exports, which however remain small.
Nonethelss, it is clear that a country with poor internal industry cannot be classified as world power.
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Defeat allows no explanation
Victory needs none.
It insults the dead when you treat life carelessly.
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EGETRK
Consul
Joined: 16-Sep-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 300
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Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 10:49 |
pooufff...u still discuss about cyprus war...it is not necessery,everyone saw result...
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The lands of the of the West may be armored with walls of steel,
But I have borders guarded by the mighty chest of a believer...
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