Iran�s best ally ?

Right..sorry, been neglecting this recently as have been very busy.

Also my browser is refusing to let me quote large chunks so you'll have to do this passage by passage, sorry.

Iranian4life;

Crusades were European but Islamic invasion of Spain? Both sides have had their problems in that sphere. Sassanid invasions into Roman territory? The Parthians? And Romans? Middle East has always had a degree of pressure from East and West leading to wars, as indeed have most areas. Crusader atrocities were in general larger as they were not in 'home' territory so there were fewer Christians, generally such slaughters were military in nature anyway. Saladin killed less civilians, Crusaders killed less POW's (Hospitallers, Templars). That said this isnt a Crusade thread (in fact i cant remember how we got onto Crusades, imperialism i think).

Admitted, Britain failed to keep its promise. However Jews have always lived in Palestine, particually Jerusalem. Its their holy city, they have a right to it therefore due to religous reasons. At the very least they are allowed to live there even if they dont rule. I can go live in most countries even though i was born in Britain, the idea that i am refused from a country  because my ancestors havent ruled it recently enough in history makes little sense. Quick question, where do you live (dont answer if this is too personal or otherwise) because if you have emigrated from Iran (from your Forum Name I'm assuming thst your birth country) then surely according to your logic you shouldnt be allowed to live there. Its a Jewish homeland because its the one place in the world they have ruled, it is also where the Jewish faith was born. In much the same way as the Middle East and Mecca and the 'homelands' of  Muslims, that Japan is the 'homeland' of Shinotists. Actually i recently read that Britain did not move several thousand Jews to Palestine before WW2 because they realised the local bigotries would not accept it.

Not sure Britain ever ruled 70% of Africa, and as mentioned many times before that is a failure of governance. Palestine was similarly admitted (although local problems have plagued the place, even Pompey declined conquering Judea on the grounds it was too much trouble). Jordan seemed to be doing fairly well last i looked. Afghanistan similarly has always had frictitious tribes. Britain never actually conquered the place (aside from one stupid and aborted attempt), all British troubles were in order to stop Afghans raiding the North West Frontier. China? Britain has only held Hong Kong (doing well thank you) aside from the Boxer rebellion (and that was temporary in the extreme- amidst a coalition of other nations.). India doing well and the country was unified (apart from the Kashmir problem) compared the warring princely staes beforehand. Egypt? We built the Suez canal, found some nifty artifacts. Sure we caused trouble (amidst some help) but i wouldnt call it a ruin or such like Iraq.

No, they dont teach many atrocities, several but not all. Why do they teach Iranians their atrocities? (what with the beautiful Holocaust denail) All countries gloss over various atrocities and screw ups while highlighting otherwise. Similarly i have never taken a course on Britains help to the world (no cheap cracks please).

If you mean monetary please say so! Otherwise i will get confused. After all when someone starts shouting 'So and so will pay!' you dont think monetary. I try to keep my inner crusader in check thank you, he's never been the same since Hattin. That said you accuse me of necessarily being a 'civilised white man', what makes you think I'm white; looks like my Crusader wont be alone in getting a check up. I'm sorry, i assumed, i shouldnt have. But make sure you dont too mate!

I never said we didnt take things from Africa, I was just saying we havent drained her resources. We took stuff, sure, what Empire doesnt. I wouldnt call it rape though, Belgium in the Congo was rape. There are not many rich stable African countries- Ghana, S. Africa are pretty good for Africa. But how many rich stable S. America countries are there...There is a developing world and it is developing. Africa is crippled not so much by old colonial rape but by modern day AIDS and corrupt government (some of which shamefully had British support). But look at Zimbabwe (its a good example), left British rule as one of the richest agricultural nations in the world, stable and developing. Now thanks to bad government its a wreck. Not a case of imperial rape as self rape. Rape is too strong a word. And surely Britan is investing in developing countries now, one of the most charitable nations and all that. Hooray for that! Aside from that Britian was the first major power to make slavery illegal, one of the first nations to have done so too, Britains navy made slavery impossible more than any other factor- never before was so much slavery wiped out, surely a bonus for all those Africans we were enslaving?

Britain chose a policy, any others who copy- well thats up to them, read your Kant. Portugal and Frances fault not Britains. To take your argument to silly extremes all ecological damage coems to the man who invented fire surely as that allowed humanity to tske over the worlda and inflict out current damage. Every man, and nation thinks for himself. Could i have documented examples please as I'm not sure how widespread the examples you give were. Why weaken them, our army was powerful enough to take any tribe, and surely we wouldnt want to kill tribesmen when we could be using them as slaves? (so you claim). I have no doubt such practices have happened- but was it really the worst, nastiest example of this? Because thats what the original argument was about- the Britian was the worst.

Good to know you dont support the Saudis, just an example of why Britain currently is not exactly the nastiest nation Iran could ally with.

British policy in S. Africa, really. As far as my knowledge goes most S. African whites were German or Dutch (the Boers). They had a supremacist attitude all of their own, Britian never  supported that (Boer war?).

OK, fine, that said I'm not necessarily trying to justify my nations crime (considering the amount I've admitted were horribly, horribly wrong I'd have thought that impossible). I was originally trying to say that Britian was not the worst nation on the earth and that there are many, many worse.

Never said white man brought civilisation (technically Arab man). I said European powers did, no racism involved- if I wanted to help people in Rwanda that isnt the white man shovelling his pity on black people, its charity. European powers had governments, Africans didnt (beyond the tribal stage). Thats all i was saying. And no it did not work...so far.

OK, that is corruption..to a degree. Certain groups (nobility, minorities, whatever) always form as helpers. You show those who follow you wealth and power so that others want to be like them (look at Roman imperial foreign policy). Do you really think there werent poor in Britian at that time (there were, to incredible amounts), you make them work for money. Thats how it goes, if they are all poor than obviously they arent all working are they? Britain instituted poorhouses. Africa had farmers or any of thousands of  other jobs, someone had to be doing them and that gives them money. As for being too poor to need to bribe, well why would you bribe a poor person? You are poor you want money, I am not rich, I would like more money but that doesnt mean i will be accepting bribes! I fyou want money you work (as many Africans do) harder to earn more, get promoted etc. Its capitalism...slightly confused here..

We have given up all overseas colonies bar those who want to stay with us, the Falklands, Gibralter and thats basicly it. Thats self determination, thats morally right. Otherwise you are saying 'You want us and we dont mind having you but we must get rid of you'. It makes no sense...

If i was the leader of Britain i wouldnt be offering aid! And we arent! Britian is firmly with the US over the Iran question.

Europe abandoned a democraticly elected terrorist government. Europe does not deal with terrorists.When Hamas stop blowing up Israelis, denying the Holocaust and trying to kill and entire religous group we will accept them. Whats so wrong with that? As for abandoning which area sends the most (nearly all) aid to Palestine- Europe! And the area sending some of the least is- the Middle East! Compare European aid and Middle Eastern aid and see who sends the most (and Middle Eastern governments are not exactly poor are they!). Nice abandoning.

Well some nice sugar coated dream i have when I'm admitting my country screwed up somewhere like Iraq...

Kingofmazandern;

I wouldnt be surprised at covert Syrian aid, its a distinct likelihood, that said i wouldnt be surprised if UK/US starts some covert raiding of its own (as it has been doing into Iran to stop the weapons/soldiers shipment).

Supergoat;

I went back so far in time because its a period i know and because its correct. Most problems today come from the past. I was showing that the Middle East (like all places) has never been fully stable and that even back then there were troubles. If it makes you feel better i threw a caveman into this post! I know the two state thing, I didnt argue it wasnt less stable, just that it was serious imperialism and that commenting on the stablity provided  by imperialism then bashing it made little sense!

Never said multi ethnic states cant fail (Iraq!). Nationalism is European- so is Descartes, Champagne, Bacon butties etc, and? Nationalism has existed in varying states (back to the Roamns i know you love- Judea and the Samaritans Vs. the Jews or Alexandria and the Jews Vs. Greeks) for a while now...

Colonialism always happens, imperialism is a natural state for a nation. Just about every existing power today has had some kind of nationalism from their national area. Thats history for you.

Why dont you need to answer my last comment, if you are agreeing then thank you, if not then you are you trying the tired 'Jew not Arab fault' thing (Colonialism surely for Arabs to be in what was a Jewish state?).

St Antonin;

Russia will be a covert (already is to a degree) ally. They want the oil and dont need any more annoyances in their Chechnan muddle. (speaking of which, if you really want racism etc then find a Russian board on Chechnya, never have i heard so many 'dirty theiving Moslem' threads, shocking)

Turkey should be fine, hopefully she has the sense to stay out.

Anujkhamer;

Yes not all went the right way in India but the North West Frontier was safer and India did become far more unified. There were many, many cock ups.

As mentioned unfortunately sanctions wont help. As far as i can see the US will hit Iran no matter what.