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Demetrios
Knight
Joined: 20-Nov-2004
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Topic: Europe and asia Posted: 20-Nov-2004 at 19:58 |
There is no mention of middle age in the first thread. It is not to you to reduce the subject to this period.
"Middle East? what does that have to do with Europe?"
Middle east is the link between europe and asian. Their records are full of informations about both europe and asia
"What can you say to someone that lost the invention of the horse collar?"
What do you mean, i don't understand? must be my english
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Omnipotence
Baron
Joined: 16-Nov-2004
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Posted: 20-Nov-2004 at 20:14 |
"There is no mention of middle age in the first thread. It is not to you to reduce the subject to this period."
Well, that's true, but so far that's what everyone's been arguing about, but I guess you can take it to another time period.
"What do you mean, i don't understand? must be my english "
Sorry for not being clear, but I meant that for a brief period of time the Europeans in the dark ages lost the invention of the horse collar, or some other collar, I forgot which.
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Demetrios
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Posted: 20-Nov-2004 at 20:26 |
Ok true but horse collar has nothing to do with warfare ,it's an agrarian tool.
By the way you mentionned sino-dutch war. can you give me dates and circunstances. Can't see what you're talking about
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Omnipotence
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Posted: 21-Nov-2004 at 18:41 |
"Ok true but horse collar has nothing to do with warfare ,it's an agrarian tool."
Supply lines.
"By the way you mentionned sino-dutch war. can you give me dates and circunstances. Can't see what you're talking about"
This is when the Ming(who's being kicked by the Qine) kicked the Dutch out of Taiwan. Don't really know the date but I'm pretty sure you can find it in google.
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warhead
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Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 01:08 |
"2-Every asiatic countries(except for Japan) were once part of an european empire. Not any european territory ever was part of an asiatic empire."
With the exception, of Thailand, China, Korea, Arabia, Tibet, East Turkestan, Ryukyo, and the list goes on.
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Styrbiorn
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Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 06:58 |
Originally posted by warhead
"2-Every asiatic countries(except for Japan) were once part of an european empire. Not any european territory ever was part of an asiatic empire."
With the exception, of Thailand, China, Korea, Arabia, Tibet, East Turkestan, Ryukyo, and the list goes on. |
Well, since I'm so utterly bored, I made a little map over countries that has been in European hands sometime during the last 500 years. You might recognize the format
Link
Edited by Styrbiorn
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Demetrios
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Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 07:30 |
"With the exception, of Thailand, China ......."
Those who say china wasn't european's puppet after the opium wars deny history.
This was unfair of european's but they did control china even if there was still an emperor
Edited by Demetrios
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TJK
Consul
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Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 10:00 |
Since the "battle of Lepante" in 1571 where the turkish fleet was wiped out:
1- Western europeans never lost a single war against non-european countries.
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Austria and Venice have actually lost many wars against Ottomans in XVII century - the last one even in XVIII century Austro-Ottoman War, 1737-1739 and what about Vietnamese-French war 1945-1954 ?
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Temujin
King
Sirdar Bahadur
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Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 12:05 |
and even more recently the French-Algerian war...
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warhead
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Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 15:24 |
"Those who say china wasn't european's puppet after the opium wars deny history.
This was unfair of european's but they did control china even if there was still an emperor"
Opium war did no more than opening up China and leagalize certain trade. It was far from controlled politically, as can be seen by the fact that it faught more wars with Britain, France, Russia respectively afterwards. Japan at this time is no different from China, also signing unequal treatise and building their own arms. The correct date of mercy would be post Boxer's rebellion in which it was divided into sphere of influence, but then Japan also had a share and the area in northern China south of the yellow river north of the Yangze and west of Shang Dong along with Xing jian and Qin Hai was not within the sphere. Not to mention Japan itself had a sphere.
"Well, since I'm so utterly bored, I made a little map over countries that has been in European hands sometime during the last 500 years. You might recognize the format "
Yes, but Japan is also occupied by the United States after world war 2, which is no different to any European power.
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Guests
Guest
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Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 15:46 |
Yes, but Japan is also occupied by the United States after
world war 2, which is no different to any European power. |
In that case North Korea should be red as well, it was occupied by the Soviet Union 1945-1948.
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warhead
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Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 17:06 |
so would manchuria
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Demetrios
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Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 18:42 |
Regarding "decolonisation wars": i knew it would be mentioned, but i'm wondering if it's not a bit risky to go on on the subject......
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coolstorm
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Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 19:56 |
"Opium war did no more than opening up China and leagalize certain trade"
This is wrong. Hong Kong was actually ceded to Britain as a result of the Opium War. Hong Kong surely plays a major role in world's economy today and is the most advanced Chinese city out of all the Mainland and Taiwan cities and Singapore if you consider it as one.
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warhead
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Posted: 22-Nov-2004 at 22:07 |
Hong kong is but a poor ragged minor city back then of no economic importance, it was strateigically important to the British.
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coolstorm
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Posted: 23-Nov-2004 at 00:30 |
"Hong kong is but a poor ragged minor city back then of no economic importance, it was strateigically important to the British. "
Your wording is kinda confusing.
If you are talking now, you are definitely wrong. Hong Kong is the richest Chinese city and one of the most advanced financial centers of great economic importantce.
If you are talking about back then, Hong Kong not only served as a major British colony in the far east but also a cellor for Chinese refugees, capitals, and businessmen when China was in turmoil. 100,000 nationalist troops fled to Hong Kong after China was captured by the communists. The founding father of ROC that overthrew the Qing also treated Hong Kong as a base for his revolution. He also recieved his medical education in Hong Kong. It is true that Hong Kong was not as important as it is today back then but saying that it was a totally unimportant figure to China that could be neglected is definitely wrong.
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Jalisco Lancer
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Posted: 23-Nov-2004 at 00:43 |
Originally posted by TJK
[QUOTE]
Since the "battle of Lepante" in 1571 where the turkish fleet was wiped out/FONT]
1- Western europeans never lost a single war against non-european countries.
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Austria and Venice have actually lost many wars against Ottomansin XVII century - the last one even in XVIII century
Ask to General Barradas and his 3,500 men expedition to Tampico in 1829 or to Maximilian and Napoleon III.
Edited by Jalisco Lancer
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Styrbiorn
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Posted: 23-Nov-2004 at 04:11 |
Originally posted by coolstorm
"<!-- Message -->Hong kong is but a poor ragged minor city back then of no economic importance, it was strateigically important to the British. "
Your wording is kinda confusing.
If you are talking now, you are definitely wrong. Hong Kong is the richest Chinese city and one of the most advanced financial centers of great economic importantce.
If you are talking about back then, Hong Kong not only served as a major British colony in the far east but also a cellor for Chinese refugees, capitals, and businessmen when China was in turmoil. 100,000 nationalist troops fled to Hong Kong after China was captured by the communists. The founding father of ROCthat overthrew the Qing also treated Hong Kong as a base for his revolution. He also recieved his medical education in Hong Kong. It is true that Hong Kong was not as important as it is today back then but saying that it was a totally unimportant figure to China that could be neglected is definitely wrong. |
He's saying that Hongkong was a little and completely unimportant rock with a little fishing village or two before the British found it and developed it. Which, AFAIK, is correct.
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coolstorm
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Posted: 24-Nov-2004 at 02:16 |
"He's saying that Hongkong was a little and completely unimportant rock with a little fishing village or two before the British found it and developed it. Which, AFAIK, is correct. "
Hong Kong wasn't developed by the British but the people there and the capitals from the Chinese mainland.
Since the 80's, many British MN firms were taken over by local Hong Kong businessmen. An example would be Hutchison Whampao.
GDP on a per capita basis of Hong Kong has also been higher than that of the UK since 90's. It is still higher as of today.
Edited by coolstorm
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ChineseManchurian
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Posted: 24-Nov-2004 at 02:21 |
Hong Kong is only a small city in China around 1840, British use it for the most important port to control Asia
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