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Surenas
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Topic: Catalan company... who were they? Posted: 23-Dec-2005 at 08:52 |
Hello All,
Just wondering if anyone can give me a description of the catalon company and what Almogavers were?
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Komnenos
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Posted: 23-Dec-2005 at 11:17 |
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Maju
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Posted: 24-Dec-2005 at 07:15 |
As far as I know, the almogvares (Arabic
for scouts) were a type of mounted infantery, mostly from the Pyrenees,
who seem to have used about the same military equipement that ancient
Iberians had: two spears and a sword. They were the best fighting in
open field but had no abilities defending fortifications (thy defended
Gallipoli marching out). Their most common tactic was to rip the soft
belly of horses, forcing then the knights or other cavalry to fight on
foot, where they were clearly superior.
Apart of the famous Catalan Company, there was also a Navarrese
Company, first sent there to conquer Albania for the Sicilian monarchs.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Surenas
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Posted: 25-Dec-2005 at 04:09 |
How were they used with knights?
did they charge with the kngihts?
what where spainish knights like?
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Maju
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Posted: 25-Dec-2005 at 08:40 |
Originally posted by Surenas
How were they used with knights?
did they charge with the kngihts?
what where spainish knights like? |
They did not charge: they were infantery (mounted but infantery
anyhow). As I described above they force knights to fight on foot,
where they were superior normally. I don't know they ever fought with
knights but if they did, they probably divided the battlefield in areas
of action.
Spanish knights were like any other knights, I guess. But these weren't
the backbone of Aragonese or (later) Spanish expansion. They played a
role in the Reconquista wars, specially the military orders (Santiago,
Calatrava, etc.) but later Aragon and Spain managed to create modern
armies that had most of the weight in the infantery (halbardiers,
musketeers) and artillery.
The period of Catalan (Aragonese) expansion in the Mediterranean is
probably more modern (early Renaissance) than medieval, at least in the
military sense. Also Catalonia wasn't just the typical feudal
kingdom... in some senses it was more like the Mediterranean republics
of Italy, with a constitutional monarchical structure, which may help
to explain why so many free peasants were capillarly recruited to the
army. Remember that these almogvares came from the north were
feudalism wasn't the norm but the exception.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Ikki
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Posted: 04-Jan-2006 at 08:41 |
Like say Maju, the almughavars was light infantry armed with a small shield, javelins
and a wide and short sword; they were from the catalan and aragonese
Pyreneese. It is curious, these guys looks like iberians or celtiberians
warriors. The infantry were the bulk of the army and was supported by
jinetes, few heavy cavalry and in the asian campaign by alans.
(Maju, you ask me in another thread that i culdn't read, umm, hasta
ayer, sorry moderator, what was the jinetes: mounted javaliners)
They crushed to the turks in three battles between the Egean sea and
the Taurus mountain. I know the first: a night attack to the camp of
the turks. The sources say that the turks couldn't pierce their armour
(i think, the armour of the few heavy cavalry)
After the tragedy in Gallpolli and Constantinople, in Greece they
fight with the french knigts. In Tessaly or Beotia i can't remember,
the french thought that they could crush to the almughavars with a
frontal attack, but the Grand Company was behind a swanpy terrain (was
inappreciable because the grass) and the knights were totally
annihilated.
bye
Edited by Ikki
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Heraclius
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Posted: 04-Jan-2006 at 10:14 |
Its a shame the Catalans didn't return its Anatolian conquests to Byzantium as they should of or atleast as the Emperor should of insisted upon. The Catalans would then of easily recieve their pay and De Flor could probably have created a small Catalan state in Asia Minor for himself without any problems.
The Catalans are the kind of mercenaries who are stereotypical to what mercenaries are seen as, self-selving, ultimately disloyal and most dangerously of all more effective than your own army so can turn against you at any moment. Byzantium truly unleashed a force it could not hope to control and which in the end did more harm than good.
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A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
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RomiosArktos
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Posted: 14-Jan-2006 at 12:39 |
According to the book:Byzantine Armies AD 1118-1461,Ospreypublishing the
characteristic weapons of the Almogavaroi was a long spear(coutell) and
two to four javelins(azagaya).These javelins could do great damage even
to a mounted knight when they were thrust with great violence.
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Maju
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Posted: 14-Jan-2006 at 16:20 |
Originally posted by Heraclius
Its a shame the Catalans didn't return its
Anatolian conquests to Byzantium as they should of or atleast as
the Emperor should of insisted upon. The Catalans would then of easily
recieve their pay and De Flor could probably have created a small
Catalan state in Asia Minor for himself without any problems.
The Catalans are the kind of mercenaries who are stereotypical
to what mercenaries are seen as, self-selving, ultimately disloyal and
most dangerously of all more effective than your own army so can turn
against you at any moment. Byzantium truly unleashed a force it could
not hope to control and which in the end did more harm than good. |
Why is it a shame? It's exactly the same as with the Crusaders... in
fact all that wasn't but the late upbeat of the Crusades: when you
aren't able to defend yourself and need to call for help... then you
are totally sold - and expect the helpers to help themselves more than
anything else.
Edited by Maju
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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RomiosArktos
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Posted: 14-Jan-2006 at 16:52 |
Originally posted by Maju
Why is it a shame? It's exactly the same as with the Crusaders... in
fact all that wasn't but the late upbeat of the Crusades: when you
aren't able to defend yourself and need to call for help... then you
are totally sold - and expect the helpers to help themselves more than
anything else.
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You are right.When you hire mercenaries,you should be prepered even for
this attitude.The Rhomaioi(Byzantines) relied too much at that time on
mercenaries,the mercenaries noticed that and some of them seized the
great opportunity.
As far as i remember the Catalans founded a principality in Attica that
become vassal state to the Ottomans some years before the capture of
Constantinople
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