Islamic Entitlement

ok Closed

now plz open a new thread in what you are talking about. this thread gone off topic enough.

Funny definition of 'united' you are using. That they came under the theoretcial suzerainty of the Sultan, but ignored it whenever they could, would be a more accurate statement.

Well, I don't see you can blame the British for that.  It was the Sultan who declared a jihad (really) against Britain, France and Russia in October-November 1914. Enver Pasha made a bad miscalculation, that's all - a fatal one for the Ottoman Empire if not for Turkey as a nation state.

I also don't know where you got 'short-lived' from. They were natural allies at least from the Reformation on, against Spain, against Napoleon, against Russia, and in things like the diplomacy surrounding the Treaty of Berlin and putting down the Egyptian revolution in 1881.

That's the central issue you were ignoring.

In fact though the Gulf area, apart from the entrepot at Basra, had been poor for centuries. If oil wasn't valuable it would still be poor. That's one reason the Ottomans were happy to see Britain taking over some of the responsibility for the governance of the region in order to keep the Indian trade routes free.

But rarely against the British. Certainly for most of the 19th century the Ottoman Empire and Britain were concerned with a common enemy in Russia. Hence the collaboration in the Crimean War and the cession of Cyprus to provide Britain with a support base in the area.

The only significant difference between the two countries was over the independence of Greece. Most of the time the Ottomans and the British were fairly natural allies, even back to Elizabethan times (as someone was pointing out in another thread recently).

The idea that the principalities of the area were ever 'united' except under occasional pressure from nominal overlords verges on the laughable. They were no more united than the Barbary States.

thanx richard for the jabbing

to all memebers please stick to the topic which is about "Islamic Entilement".

if off topic sujbects discussion continued, this thread will be closed.

thnx.

British policy in the Middle East was influenced  after WWI by British Petroleum Company interests in extracting oil from the region.That includes occupying and fomenting revolutioons in a number of countries including Iran,Iraq Koweit and others stealing their natural resources.

For informatio click below

http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/paper/index.php?article=2299

Hello!

It seems I missed a lot.

Bahrain receiving foreign aid?  I don't know why we're known as the affluent Gulf states if we're going to rely on foreign aid.  Double check your information, please.  The only "destitute" Gulf state is Oman, and it's not receiving any foreign aid.

Kuwait had been comparatively advanced not only because of British investment, but also because it was an Iraqi province that received significant attention and funds from the Sublime Port (Ottoman Empire).

I still remain firm in my convinction that Iran receives no foreign aid, and the only aid it has received recently was that related to the Bam earthquake.  The World Bank lends out money to Iran, like it does to all other countries, and the SDR (Special Drawing Right, which is a unit of account of the IMF) also gives out money indiscriminately to countries, including Iran.  So yes, Iran does not receive foreign aid.  If you think otherwise, please provide evidence.

If aid is more than just money, then we also are providing Europe and America with aid in terms of cheap labor, tax-free markets and job opportunities.  Please do not imply that it is all one-sided.  We are either interdependent on each other, or we're both capable of being self-sufficient.  The Middle East has always survived on open-trade with the East.  The Far East never claimed that the Near East (Middle East) was dependent on it, and never attributed any advancement in the region to its many contributions, and vice versa.  Why is the West being so arrogant thinking that the rest of the world is dependent on it?

Right now, the Middle East is strategically and economically very important.  Logically speaking, if it wasn't important, you wouldn't be sending your children to die here.

And please quit that talk about Canada providing you with oil.  You obviously don't read the links I post up here, even when they're from "your" sources.

"

As oil prices � now about $63 a barrel � stay elevated, so-called unconventional supplies of oil become economically feasible. Exhibit one: enormous deposits of Canadian oil sands, which could eventually yield more than 170 billion barrels of oil. On the list of the world's biggest oil countries, that total puts the USA's northern neighbor behind only Saudi Arabia.

That's the good news. The bad news is that wringing oil from the sludge-like tar sands is difficult and costly, and requires enormous quantities of water and natural gas � itself an ever-pricier fuel."

And where do you get your natural gas from?  The Middle East.  See?

It is so arrogant of you to talk about foreign aid, when the whole world generously provides aid to countries that are in need.  India provided Pakistan with aid after the earthquake, when these countries are in a state of conflict over land and resources.  The UAE provided aid to Iran after the earthquake, even though Iran occupies UAE Islands.  We gave the US aid, when the US is engaged in bombing and torturing Muslims in Afghanistan in Iraq.  It's a humanitarian issue, not a political one.  So if you're going to brag about how much you're giving in foreign aid, then you might as well not.  People hate to be told they're alive because of your favors, when you too, in reality, are surviving on others' favors.

And Loknar, for the last time:  The Middle East has had many civilizations before the Western foot ever set on this land.  This region was not built by the West.  It is "oriental" because it is Eastern and depends on Eastern countries.  Our labor market, our products, our technology .. almost everything, comes from China, India, Korea, Taiwan and Japan.  Even our food is imported from Eastern and Middle Eastern countries.  Why buy American apples that take weeks to be shipped, when Iranian and Chinese apples look so fresh and take a few days to arrive?

The boycott of Danish goods was only easy because not many people consumed these products, and those who did have easily found alternatives.  Everybody's consuming Saudi dairy products now.

I could go on and on, but if you don't understand logic, and when you've not been in this part of the world ever, then there's no point in describing an elephant to a blind man.

But Saudi Arabia pays for it. Not the same thing at all.

Then you took it the wrong way. I never inferred any racism in my post, any which you may see is in your own imagination. Maybe you should read the argument between me and Mira. She says the west was developed on Arab oil and that we couldnt have dont it with out them. I said the middle east was built by the west. You read into things too much and your own past with me I think interferes with your own judgment.

And as to respecting people beliefs and cultures, I see that rule broken all the time and I never see any warnings. In fact, this is now my 2nd warning, and I believe in both instances you were the one to bring these charges against me. I know I deserved it the first time, i was speaking in anger after all. But I think you are only reading into this.

And as to why I said "dont tell me they did it them selves." was to pre-empt Mira and to point out they did not have the technical expertise.

Excuse me?

I was challenging Mira to provide evicence that the Arabs built the middle east wiht out western help. I dont see anything wrong with what I posted. If I broke a rule please tell me whcih one i broke.

Of course it's all in the past. But if you want compensation then you should likewise offer out compensation.

Actually Saudi Arabia is. Who trains their military? Who gives the top of the line hardware? Oh yeah! We do. And of course Egypt must be a puppet because she made peace with Israel. Oh man, if any Arab does that they must be western puppets!

Of course when it came to the Quake in Bam or the Tsunami we likewise chipped in. And if your country ever sank into quick sand it would be the same thing, we would help you. And of course any aid offered to us is appreciated.

Not as much as you need us.

In was talking about the infrastructure. 50 years ago what was at Dubai or Abu Dabi? Maybe a settlement but nothing like it is today.

The British built Kuwait, where do you think the Kuwaiti people got their skills from? Don�t tell me you did it on your own.

Yeah and I hate the Chinese government and I hate that we live on their exports. But just remember that between Japan and America China relies on us for %50 of their export economy.

Actually, in WW2 we were an oil exporter. It was our increasing standard of living that led us to start importing it. The plurality of our oil comes from Canada

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/news/nation/13767 738.htm?source=rss&channel=krwashington_nation

"Through the first 11 months of 2005, the United States imported nearly 2.2 million barrels per day of oil from the Middle East nations of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iraq. That's less than 20 percent of the total U.S. daily imports of 10.062 million barrels. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspon dent/4677402.stm

here, you will read that Canada and Mexico alone account for 28.9% of America's oil. The Gulf states only sell us %19. I thought i read Canada sells us %40 but i was wrong, but they still do sell us the largest amount of oil compared to any other country. The fact is, there is oil in other area of the world and while we now rely on oil not all of it is from the middle-east, and with new developing technology we are slowly replacing oil. We import 10mmillion barrels per day, 2.2 million of those barrels come from the middle east.

As to us progressing our selves...you over estimate your contribution to western development and you underestimate our contribution to your development.

Yes because China had such a huge demand for oil in the 70s.

and btw, China will exceed our demand in 2010.

Of course we rely on that crap, and if China ever tries to take it from us we will kick them to the curb. And if the Arab states ever get any bright ideas again about selling oil to us i would propose we occupy their oil fields and drill it for our selves.