Questions to the Jews...

Originally posted by Kapikulu Originally posted by Dolphin I don't call someone by their religion anyway, like ''Hey, Catholic''.  I tend to say, "Hey, Peter" and refer to him as 'a Catholic', the exact same as with a Jewish person.   But the difference with the Jewish people are, the term their tribes/folks are called is the same with their religious affiliation.   You can be a Catholic, but your nationality can change. However with the Jews, it is the same.

Edited by shahab6 - 14-May-2007 at 23:38

Pekau,

Its not a silly question.

I'll echo some comments here by saying that the word "Jew" itself is fine, kind of like "Black", its all in how you say it.  If you say the word with the same degree of respect as you'd give to any other ethnic group, then its normal.

Also, "Jew" is a proper name or noun, its not an adjective, and is usually offensive if used as a descriptive, as in "that Jew newspaper", or "the Jew Senator." "Jewish" on the other hand is fine.

This reminds me of a lecture that I recently sat in on, where the Jewish speaker humorously scolded us, the Jewish audience, for calling ourselves "Jew-ish" rather than "Jews." He said that years of anti-Semitism has made "Jew" into a bad word, even to us Jews! And to escape this uncomfortable label, we use the term "Jew-ish".

But I think this very question necessitates a deeper look into the semantics of the term. Like the Swedish, I think the best way to show respect to another people is to refer to them, as they refer to themselves, in their own language.

So "Jew" is an English or Romantic version of the Hebrew term "Yehudi" which stems from the tribe of "Yehudah" (Judah.) When the ancient Kingdom of Israel, centered in Samaria, was destroyed by the Assyrians circa 722 BCE, the Hebrew remnant resided in the southern Kingdom, called Judah, whose capital was Jerusalem. When the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem, and carried the Judahites into Diaspora -- that's when the "Yehudim" or Jews started to develop a consciousness of being primarily 'Jews'.

As for Israel (Yis_Ra'EL) which means "those who strive, contend for, and wrestle with GOD", even though the kingdom was destroyed, the national name lived on among the Jewish remnant, used as a spiritual term for their collective identity as the chosen people.

Today, modern Israelis carry on that traditional name (as Yisra'ELiym), but the Anglo-sized term "Israelite" is reserved to describe the ancient ancestors -- although in jest or good humor, its certainly okay to call a Jew an "Israelite" or even a "Hebrew" (which was my great-grandfather's  "ethnic" category on his passport when he came to America) -- since it is quite a noble term, in terms of its deeper meaning.

Yeah the next one you meet in South Korea.

Just remember that all jews are not ashkenazee (i.e. yiddish speaking) so some may whether don't get you or fail to see the joke.

what the hell are you talking about

Originally posted by Kapikulu You can be a Catholic, but your nationality can change. However with the Jews, it is the same.

You're just about 2,500 years late! You can be an American jew, Russian jew, Iranian jew (although I wouldn't try if I were you), etc.

Judaism is a religion like any other, with the slight difference that they rarely try to convert anybody to it.

Ok, good point, didn't look at it that way. Even if the wrong term is used, if it is not meant offensively and said in innocence, then maybe it's not so bad.

Originally posted by Top Gun I don't care at least if you are not begining about the holocaust what some people do

What is this supposed to mean?

It's come to be an insulting term.  But originally it just meant "nation".  Technically anyone who is a non-Jew is a Goy.

I don't care at least if you are not begining about the holocaust what some people do

An example: Up to about 10 years ago, members of Islam were often adressed as Muhammedans in the Netherlands. The Islamitic society let know that they found this term unpleasant, and within no time, the vocabulaire had switched to the more acceptable and accurate Islamists. This is a positive change.

I don't live in the Netherlands, but what about "Muslim"?  In english you would probably get in trouble for saying Islamist, it's like calling any Jew a Zionist..



I don't call someone by their religion anyway, like ''Hey, Catholic''.  I tend to say, "Hey, Peter" and refer to him as 'a Catholic', the exact same as with a Jewish person.

Although no catholic would say "hey Catholic, c'mere!" but in Yiddish when you are addressing a person it's presumed you would only be talking to a Jewish person, so you say "Hey, Yid!"(Jew).  "How's a Jew doing?" etc.   So again I think it's pretty much based on context.