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Mamluk Rule
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xi_tujue View Drop Down
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Mamluk Rule
    Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 15:06
Originally posted by azimuth

Memluks as Empire or Caliphate was centered in Egypt.
 
the Ottoman ended the memluks as rulers but they did not kill all of them, the memluks royals were put as governors or people in high position in Ottoman Egypt.
 
Mohammed Ali was not a Memluk he was born in Albania, after Napoleon was defeated in Egypt by the British the Ottoman sent Mohammed or Mehmet Ali to fill the position of  Ottoman Governor of Egypt.
 
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also there were different Memluks here and there through islamic history, the most significant ones are the ones who had an empire in Egypt.
 
 
 
 
who said that muhammed ali was a mameluke. btw he made his own empire loose from the ottomans in the biggining he was loyalm to the sultan but when he lost  alot of troops he said F*ck it
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Posts: 598 		  Quote Arbr Z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 13:10
Just a small correction, Mehmet Ali, or Muhammed Ali was indeed an albanian, but he was born in Kavala, an Ottoman city which now is in Greek territory.
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Posts: 2979 		  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 11:23
Memluks as Empire or Caliphate was centered in Egypt.
 
the Ottoman ended the memluks as rulers but they did not kill all of them, the memluks royals were put as governors or people in high position in Ottoman Egypt.
 
Mohammed Ali was not a Memluk he was born in Albania, after Napoleon was defeated in Egypt by the British the Ottoman sent Mohammed or Mehmet Ali to fill the position of  Ottoman Governor of Egypt.
 
--------
 
also there were different Memluks here and there through islamic history, the most significant ones are the ones who had an empire in Egypt.
 
 
 
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 20:49
What about in India and Pakistan?
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 07:44
the mamelukes in idia how long did they exist i mean were used.
 
after muhammed slaughter the main branch of mamelukes the other stoped I think out of fear just became soldiers for local sjah or khans or sultans
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 07:39
Not all Mamlukes were concentrated in Egypth though?
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 06:13

dude you said it your self ottoman not mameluke. their are numerous families living in tunis algeria oman lebanon syria. But just gwiki for muhammed ali(not the boxer ) just read

 
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 05:28
The Mamluke Turks have been living in Arabia before Turks were living in Turkey. There must be some left? my Algerian friend said there are still old Turkish families from the Ottomn times in the country?
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Posts: 1919 		  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 13:39
Originally posted by Bulldog

Are there any Mamluks left today in Arabia? like any big families left who still speak Turkish or Circassian?
like I said the mamelukes were all slaughterd by the turkish soldier
 
muhammed ali(not the boxer) whos family ruled egypt until the late 40 I think
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 07:32
Are there any Mamluks left today in Arabia? like any big families left who still speak Turkish or Circassian?
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Posts: 130 		  Quote Urungu Han Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jul-2006 at 04:55
Memluks was a Turkish empire.Memluk sultan and army was Turk but the people are arabs,kurds and persians.
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Posts: 1800 		  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2006 at 22:53
Originally posted by Tobodai

Flintlocks? That seems a bit early for that to be possible.
 
It is possible that the Janissaries had flintlocks by 1517. 
 
Gabor Agoston in his Guns for the Sultan states that they probably had acquired from the Balkans or Western Europe what they called the tfenk, or "matchlock arquebus," possibly with the "serpentine lock mechanism" (88).  He goes on to say that they definitely had them by the time of Murad III (1574-1595) (89).
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Posts: 4310 		  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2006 at 21:13
Flintlocks? That seems a bit early for that to be possible.
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Posts: 1800 		  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2006 at 22:37
Originally posted by Kapikulu

It actually included arquebuses and handguns,too, but barely their numbers were not so huge...And Ottoman army had a bunch of infantry using them too...So, those were just not enough to hold against Ottoman army.
 
For the Ottomans, the Janissaries especially come to mind.  By this time they were armed with specialized arquebuses (more like muskets, maybe flint-locks).  The Mamluks, who had recently acquired firearms, were probably no match for the Janissary marksmen.
 
On a side note, this conversation made me think of the curious late period unit of the Egyptians in Medieval Total War:  the "Mameluke Infantry."  They are armed with primitive handguns; subsequently, they can easily be run down with cavalry or decimated by archers.  On the other hand, in MTW, there are no Janissaries armed with firearms in the Ottoman military units! LOL
 
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Posts: 1914 		  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2006 at 15:45
Originally posted by Byzantine Emperor

 
Hmmm...I wonder if the Venetians sold them the latest in gunpowder technology or gave them a bad deal with some old handcannons and cracked bombards?
 
Hmm, good point, actually I don't have any idea about that...
 
Originally posted by Byzantine Emperor

Okay, so the artillery was fixed on top of fortifications?
 
Yes, exactly
 
Originally posted by Byzantine Emperor

I am guessing, then, that the weapons purchase from the Venetians did not include any arquebuses or handguns?  David Ayalon (a Mamluk specialist) wrote an interesting book on the subject of the Mamluks and gunpowder weapons.  I seem to remember him mentioning that some of the Mamluk infantry were armed with guns of some sort by 1517.  But the cavalry, on the other hand, would not have anything to do with it and considered them cowards.  They stuck to their bows and scimitars.
 
It actually included arquebuses and handguns,too, but barely their numbers were not so huge...And Ottoman army had a bunch of infantry using them too...So, those were just not enough to hold against Ottoman army.
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Posts: 1914 		  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2006 at 09:12
Originally posted by Bulldog

 
P.s Kapikulu, you've got a point, when I was in Syria, Baybar's is treated like some kind of super-hero and has one hell of great reputation. I asked the guide who Baybar's was and he didn't seem to really know but all the local Arabs love him.
 
Its not untill I read up on this guy that I discovered he was a Turk.
 
I have a question, does the Tulunidogullari Dynasty of Egypt in the 800's/900's count as a Mameluk dynasty?
 
Regards
 
As I said before, most of the Arabs tend to own Mamluk Sultanate as an Arab SultanateWink, but another reason they see people like Saladin and Baybars as heroes, are because they are believed to be saved Islam from foreign powers.
 
Tulunids don't have a relation with Mamelukes at all...It actually lasted for a very very short time(less than a hundred years) and was coming from Turkic governor of Egypt, though considered a Turkic governorate with non-Turkic people.
 
 
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Posts: 2800 		  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2006 at 15:41
The heroisms of Razia, now that's worth an article all of its own, woman's rights-powerfull woman- powerfull Muslim rulers- romance...... man its got it all.
 
Sadly this fantastic period especially in regards for woman is not as well known as it should be, Razia RULES Big smile
 
P.s Kapikulu, you've got a point, when I was in Syria, Baybar's is treated like some kind of super-hero and has one hell of great reputation. I asked the guide who Baybar's was and he didn't seem to really know but all the local Arabs love him.
 
Its not untill I read up on this guy that I discovered he was a Turk.
 
I have a question, does the Tulunidogullari Dynasty of Egypt in the 800's/900's count as a Mameluk dynasty?
 
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Posts: 5697 		  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2006 at 01:26
I have been recently concentrating on studying Mamluk dynasties in both Egypt and India

The Delhi Sultanate isn't considered a Mamluke dynasty. As far as I know the only characteristics they shared was that the Mamlukes and the first sultans were slaves.

in the late 12th Centuary Muhammed Ghuri a turkish commander invaded India and conquered large parts of it, upon his death he appointed his slave and General Qutubuddin Aibak as his successor. Thus a slave inherited his empire.
Qutubuddin went on to capture Delhi and proclaimed himself Sultan.

The next few Emperors Iltumish, Razia (Iltumish's daughter) and Balban were all from the same turkish officer circle. Iltumish and Balban being slaves.
However after Balban died, the sultanate passed to the Khilji family who were niether turkish (I think) nor slaves.

As for them being liked, Pakistani's generally speak favourably of them, but I don't know what Indians think. Firoz Tughluq the last great Sultan, was famous for his care of his people. I usually refer to the phase the west is in now as its "Firoz Tughluq period"


Edited by Omar al Hashim - 12-Jun-2006 at 01:28
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Posts: 1800 		  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2006 at 23:43
Originally posted by Kapikulu

Nice post, Byzantine Emperor...
 
Thanks, same to you.  Your replies are always very informative and interesting to read. Smile
 
Originally posted by Kapikulu

the new sultan had made a change in order to deflect the Ottoman danger and bought large amounts of gunpowder weapons and artillery from Venetians.
 
Hmmm...I wonder if the Venetians sold them the latest in gunpowder technology or gave them a bad deal with some old handcannons and cracked bombards?
 
Originally posted by Kapikulu

Actually there were no other directions that Ottomans could enter into Egypt from Sinai, and the artilleries were stabilized in that way.
 
Okay, so the artillery was fixed on top of fortifications?
 
Originally posted by Kapikulu

But Yavuz Selim succeeded in passing the desert and attacked the Mameluke army from the other direction...Artilleries were useless in that case because they were stabilized towards one certain direction.And than the Mamluk army, without the help of those artilleries, was defeated.
 
I am guessing, then, that the weapons purchase from the Venetians did not include any arquebuses or handguns?  David Ayalon (a Mamluk specialist) wrote an interesting book on the subject of the Mamluks and gunpowder weapons.  I seem to remember him mentioning that some of the Mamluk infantry were armed with guns of some sort by 1517.  But the cavalry, on the other hand, would not have anything to do with it and considered them cowards.  They stuck to their bows and scimitars.
 
David Ayalon, Gunpowder and Firearms in the Mamluk Kingdom: A Challenge to a Medival Society. London: Valentine-Mitchell, 1956.
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Posts: 2979 		  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2006 at 07:21

well as far as i know they were not considered Arabs, but as Salahuddin they were considered Muslims regardless of their origin.

they were mixture of ethnicities, but mostly turks who were soldiers of the Ayyubids dynasty (which is the same one started by Salahuddin).
 
many of todays arabs and almost all the arabic programms and books ive read , the memluks were respected and considered as Islam protectors from the mongols invasion.
 
actully in high school we have a whole novel as a subject about the story of Qutoz, Bybars and Julnar (Qutoz's sister) and their story from when they were childern till battel of Ain Jalut.
 
 
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