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vranakonti
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Topic: Prizren, Kosova Posted: 14-Dec-2007 at 03:08 |
Originally posted by Yugoslav
Originally posted by es_bih
The thing is that historically that region had had a sizable Albanian population, and accounts trying to discredit that in order to tip the balance more to the Serb side are flawed and Nationalist in nature. Both populations have a rich and fluid history in the region. The Albanians did not kick the Serbs out of Kosovo in WWI or WWII. The Yugoslav kingdom controlled Kosovo in that period, as well as Tito after WWII. Tito was not anti-Serb no matter how you want to put it. He maintained peace by balancing by giving autonomy to a sizable minority within Yugoslavia as he did in Vojvodina.
And the "3rd" is in co-relation to the one initiated by the Serbian central government under Milosevic.
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Of course, Serbs weren't kicked out of Kosovo in WWI - but a little correction, they were
in WWII. More than 100,000 Serbs were expelled and 10,000 killed in
camps by the Fascist (Greater) Albanian state, most notably the
notorious SS Scandebey division. Between 1941 and 1944/1945 Yugoslavia
didn't control Kosovo.
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The whole WW2 casualities in kosova were less than 25'000 of them about 12'000 albanians and 10'000 serbs,i seriously doubt that all these 10'000 serbs died in imprisonment,but is true about 30'000(only a little part of at least 70000 serbian colons settled after 1913)serbs were kicked out,but they were all colons that were settled in the region during the prior period,and this fact was recognised even from later yugoslavian communist goverment that forbided their return after the war. And ss scanderbeg wasnt that notorious at all,it was created only in 1944 and suffered from the begining by a large haemorrhage of albanian desertions,and its minor importance was in no way comparable with the croatian or serb forms of collaborationism.And ofcourse im talking only of what happened during the war and not about the treatment reserved to the alb. kosovars immediately after. About Prizren it is an absolute albanian city for at least the last 300 years,was the center of the albanian rebellion during the Turko-Austrian wars and of the albanian "league of prizren".Is also undeniable its strong ottoman an serb heritage.
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Ti Shqipri m ep nder...
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Theodore Felix
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Posted: 10-Dec-2007 at 20:45 |
In the early XXth cent. more than half of Kosovo's population was Serbian. |
Not true, actually. In 1912, when the province was taken over by Serbia, 70% of the population was Albanian. Between that period and WW2 the number of Albs declined to 50% because of Serb-Montenegrin colonization. These were the principal targets of the WW2 Albanian expulsion.
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Tar Szernd
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Posted: 09-Dec-2007 at 18:38 |
The waterfalls of Jajce . Csontvry Kosztka Tivadar, 1903.
Can you recognize a large animal? :-))
Edited by Tar Szernd - 09-Dec-2007 at 19:17
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Posted: 06-Dec-2007 at 22:51 |
Not all of the time, but they did control in one form or another some parts earlier, and then later under Tito's government.
I stand corrected on WWII expulsions.
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Yugoslav
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Posted: 06-Dec-2007 at 22:41 |
Originally posted by es_bih
The thing is that historically that region had had a sizable Albanian population, and accounts trying to discredit that in order to tip the balance more to the Serb side are flawed and Nationalist in nature. Both populations have a rich and fluid history in the region. The Albanians did not kick the Serbs out of Kosovo in WWI or WWII. The Yugoslav kingdom controlled Kosovo in that period, as well as Tito after WWII. Tito was not anti-Serb no matter how you want to put it. He maintained peace by balancing by giving autonomy to a sizable minority within Yugoslavia as he did in Vojvodina.
And the "3rd" is in co-relation to the one initiated by the Serbian central government under Milosevic.
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Of course, Serbs weren't kicked out of Kosovo in WWI - but a little correction, they were
in WWII. More than 100,000 Serbs were expelled and 10,000 killed in
camps by the Fascist (Greater) Albanian state, most notably the
notorious SS Scandebey division. Between 1941 and 1944/1945 Yugoslavia
didn't control Kosovo.
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"I know not with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."
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Yugoslav
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Posted: 06-Dec-2007 at 22:33 |
Originally posted by Sikander
Hummm, though I would prefer to stick to the topic, I must interrupt to tell Es Bih that RS is based on ethnic cleanseing just as much as the "Albanian Kosovo" is.
In the early XXth cent. more than half of Kosovo's population was Serbian. After 2 ethnic cleansings (WW1 and WW2), the forbidance (under Tito's orders) of the return of the Serbian refugees after 1945 and a 3rd ethnic cleansing (this time under NATO's auspices), the Serbia population in Kosovo is now of just a few thousands.
So, the legitimacy is the same for both parties: the Albanians in Kosovo and the Serbians in Bosnia. Oh, and more legitimcy have the Flemish in Belgium; and the Galicians, the Catalonians and the Basques in Spain, and the Russians in Trans-Dnistrya and Ukraine; and so on and so on... and why not? But its not a matter of legitimacy, is a matter of politics...
Anyway, Mila, which places in BH would be worth visiting besides Mostar (and a national park near Bihac which I don't now if it's safe to visit)? |
He was referring just to the 1990s, you're grasping whole history. Also to be precise, there is more than 100,000 Serbs in Kosovo today (still).
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"I know not with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."
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Yugoslav
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Posted: 06-Dec-2007 at 22:31 |
Originally posted by es_bih
Originally posted by miki015
Arber,SERBIA does exists!!!The greatest mosque in Prizren,the famous
Sinan's pasha mosque has been built from the stolen blocks from the
St.Archangels churc,built by Serbian tzar Stefan Dusan Silni...read
history...
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Serbia and Montenegro is what he said, and he is correct that entity no longer exists. If you had had read the post properly you would have seen that he never said that Serbia does not exist.
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And you all should notice the date of the post - back then, S&M still existed.
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"I know not with what weapons World War 3 will be fought, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones."
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Posted: 06-Dec-2007 at 18:10 |
Let me see, and I'll post.
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Tar Szernd
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Posted: 06-Dec-2007 at 17:35 |
Jajca is an incredible place. It had the best looking castle ever, it was a hard job to besiege it f. e. both for the ottomans and hungarians.
Does someone have a photo about the fortess/town?
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Posted: 06-Dec-2007 at 01:17 |
Jajce used to be the capital in the Medieval period when Bosnia was a kingdom. Banja Luka is a good tourist attraction too, but a much more modernized one, Sarajevo has its modern parts, but also its Ottoman and 19th ct architecture.
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Sikander
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Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 22:21 |
Banja Luka? Perhaps I'll find an old hamami (= banja) over there
Jajce also looks interesting, with its waterfalls.
Before the war I know that in that national park there were bears and so, I hope the place was left unskavanged...
Thanks
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Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 19:24 |
Yes the National Park is safe to visit as is the area around Bihac. Beside Mostar, the obvious location would be Sarajevo, Jajce, Banja Luka...
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Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 19:23 |
The thing is that historically that region had had a sizable Albanian population, and accounts trying to discredit that in order to tip the balance more to the Serb side are flawed and Nationalist in nature. Both populations have a rich and fluid history in the region. The Albanians did not kick the Serbs out of Kosovo in WWI or WWII. The Yugoslav kingdom controlled Kosovo in that period, as well as Tito after WWII. Tito was not anti-Serb no matter how you want to put it. He maintained peace by balancing by giving autonomy to a sizable minority within Yugoslavia as he did in Vojvodina.
And the "3rd" is in co-relation to the one initiated by the Serbian central government under Milosevic.
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Sikander
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Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 17:44 |
Hummm, though I would prefer to stick to the topic, I must interrupt to tell Es Bih that RS is based on ethnic cleanseing just as much as the "Albanian Kosovo" is.
In the early XXth cent. more than half of Kosovo's population was Serbian. After 2 ethnic cleansings (WW1 and WW2), the forbidance (under Tito's orders) of the return of the Serbian refugees after 1945 and a 3rd ethnic cleansing (this time under NATO's auspices), the Serbia population in Kosovo is now of just a few thousands.
So, the legitimacy is the same for both parties: the Albanians in Kosovo and the Serbians in Bosnia. Oh, and more legitimcy have the Flemish in Belgium; and the Galicians, the Catalonians and the Basques in Spain, and the Russians in Trans-Dnistrya and Ukraine; and so on and so on... and why not? But its not a matter of legitimacy, is a matter of politics...
Anyway, Mila, which places in BH would be worth visiting besides Mostar (and a national park near Bihac which I don't now if it's safe to visit)?
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Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 15:49 |
Kosovo is and independent autonomous province within Serbia under the juristidiction and control of an international interim government that adimisters and babysits the squabbling parties within Kosovo.
It is hardly a practical part, it is theoriatically and LEGALLY a part. However, legallity and practicallity do not coincide all the time.
The name of the thread is ok, Kosovo/Kosova whatever sounds more or less the same. The thread is not on Serbia altogether, but on Kosovo.
You will not create a thread on the entire USA to post a few pictures of Springfield, IL will you?
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Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 15:45 |
Originally posted by Knez Lazar
First of all, Kosovo (also, Kosmet) is STILL an autonomous provicne within SERBIA. It's historically Serbian land. It's still officially and internationally called KOSOVO, not Kosova, as the author of the topic and other participants in this topic insist on calling it.
Second of all, I really have no intention of turning this topic into a political discussion, but because I've seen some Albanians and pro Albanians here favoring Kosovo's independece, I feel that I have to point this out. If Kosovo gains independance there will be no guarantees that this will not be sighted as precedent for the Serb Republic in Bosnia and numerous other regions. If the vast majority of the people in the Serb Republic are in favor of becoming part of Serbia, then why not let them hold a referendum on secession of Bosnia?
And finally, whoever is the moderator of this subforum ("Historical Pictures Gallery") should feel ashamed of his ignorance concerning the title of this thread. Therefore, I request that moderator/admin. at least changes the title "Prizren, Kosova" to "Prizren, Kosovo, Serbia." |
Because historically the "Serb Republic" has been a part of Bosnia. More importantly because it is based on ethnic cleansing and genocide. Two whole populations were almost entirely eradicated from the demographics of the "Serb Republic" within the years 1992-4. Maybe that is why? Maybe because of Banja Luka, or Srebrenica, or Bijelijna.
Comparions between the two are irrelevant. One is an entity created within the war, the other a historical entity with TWO historical populations of SERBS and ALBANIANS (alongside minority populations ).
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Tar Szernd
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Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 12:20 |
And the Voivodina was an autonomous province within Hungary. We didn't want to give it away, but there were living more serbs than hungarians and a "higher power" (a contract wich was writen without any of our opinions etc) gave it to you. I think this will be the case with your country and Kosovo, too.
I feel with you. (just kidding, I don't...)
Edited by Tar Szernd - 06-Dec-2007 at 17:58
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Knez Lazar
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Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 03:02 |
First of all, Kosovo (also, Kosmet) is STILL an autonomous provicne
within SERBIA. It's historically Serbian land. It's still officially
and internationally called KOSOVO, not Kosova, as the author of the
topic and other participants in this topic insist on calling it.
Second of all, I really have no intention of turning this topic into a
political discussion, but because I've seen some Albanians and pro
Albanians here favoring Kosovo's independece, I feel that I have to
point this out. If Kosovo gains independance there will be no
guarantees
that this will not be sighted as precedent for the Serb Republic in
Bosnia and numerous other regions. If the vast majority of the people
in the Serb Republic are in favor of becoming part of Serbia, then why
not let them hold a referendum on secession of Bosnia?
And finally, whoever is the moderator of this subforum ("Historical Pictures Gallery") should feel ashamed of his ignorance concerning
the title of this thread. Therefore, I request that moderator/admin. at
least changes the title "Prizren, Kosova" to "Prizren, Kosovo, Serbia."
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Sikander
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Posted: 05-Dec-2007 at 00:05 |
Nice pics. I love cities that are crossed by rivers
Serbia is also in my touristic agenda, as well as Croatia and perhaps BH (I would like to go to Mostar, just to take a look and spend a few days there).
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Posted: 20-Nov-2007 at 03:55 |
Originally posted by miki015
Arber,SERBIA does exists!!!The greatest mosque in Prizren,the famous
Sinan's pasha mosque has been built from the stolen blocks from the
St.Archangels churc,built by Serbian tzar Stefan Dusan Silni...read
history...
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Serbia and Montenegro is what he said, and he is correct that entity no longer exists. If you had had read the post properly you would have seen that he never said that Serbia does not exist.
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