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Who do turks consider closer

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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who do turks consider closer
    Posted: 05-Oct-2005 at 03:20

why  hungarians or mongols? why are they  so  special?

 

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  Quote Attila2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2005 at 07:02

well,turks are close to no one but turks/turkics(maybe to mongols and hungarians too)

well,i think this way

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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2005 at 10:51
But I would right them in a single line rather than downwards...
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2005 at 10:47

Originally posted by Hak-Khan



we are close

Azerbaijan
Turkmenistan
Kazakistan
Uzbekistan
Xincan-Uyghur
Kyrgizistan


so, we are not close to any foreigners



I feel the same, especially to turks

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2005 at 05:19

All Aegean and Mediteranean coastal zone except Mersin and Adana and beyond 

I dont agree. Altough Aegean coasts are seriously under Greek influence, southern anatolian coasts have no similarity with it. You know, yoruks mostly settled at southern Anatolian mountains, Taurus. Remember Karamanoglus. and that Mediterranean coasts were always under native Anatolian effect, ex: Lydians, not Greek.

About Adana and Mersin, you are right, they have nothing to do with Greek effect.

Istanbulite culture: Developped under Iranian Arabic and Turkic influeces, may be trivial Greek influence.

Istanbulite culture have developed under Byzanthine and Islamic (Middle Eastern) influences.

Pontic coastal culture: Developped under Greek and Caucasian influence  

As We name it it includes only Black Sea coasts

You are really wrong here, Pontic culture have only affected beyond Trabzon (east of it). You can see no effects of Pontic culture in Samsun, nye, Fatsa, Ordu, Gmshane etc. and middle Black Sea region...

And even Eastern Black Sea coasts have more Caucasian influence than Pontic.

Infact Kurds have almost no effect in Eastern Anatolian Turkish Culture because until 1900s they were a minority in the region after Turks Armenians and Arabs Their percentage in total population was 5%

That's right.

From what I know of the census only 20% of Albanian muslims were of the Bektashi sect

I guess more than that. But after communism, religions werent able to survive in Albania.

Trips to the Mecca no, but there are Albanians out there taht attend mosques. Not many. In the main mosque in Tirana, Ethem Bey Mosque(I took this pic btw    ) had liek 3-4 people who went in during prayer call

It isnt something special for Albanians, as I said, Bektashis dont go to mosques. And they dont go for haj.

Hi there. How's it going? Well, I've got a question; are Turkish Turkmens Shi'e? Take care and take it easy.

No they arent. They are mostly Alevis and Bektashis, which are the purest Turkic sects with heavy shamanistic elements in them. And the closest sects to the teachings of Hoja Ahmet Yesev.

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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2005 at 02:36

Uh huh, thank you.

Atam Izendeyiz... nice point...

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  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2005 at 02:16
well, I probably meant refugee Turkmens from Northern Iraq and I know they are different from Turkmens of Turkmenistan.

ATAM IZINDEYIZ, you know what it means.I will follow him to my death


Edited by erci
"When one hears such music, what can one say, but .... Salieri?"
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2005 at 02:07
By the way what's that 'Atam Izindeyiz'? Have you lost him?
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2005 at 02:06

My dear Erci,

   Hi there. Best wishes and respect. Thank you very much for you information. But I remember you once said you'd got Turkmens in Turkey; and I replied they're different from Turkmens of Turkmenistan; just like the way Iraqi Turkmens differ from us. Now, I just dont' know where I heard such a statement: 'Turkish Turkmens are Shi'a'. Anyhow, take care and watch out!

 

 

Kind regards,

Iltirish

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2005 at 01:55



Originally posted by gok_toruk

Dear Erci,

   Hi there. How's it going? Well, I've got a question; are Turkish Turkmens Shi'e? Take care and take it easy.

 

 

Best wishes,

Iltirish



Hi there elias,

well, I didn't exactly get what you mean by Turkish Turkmens but shia is related to Alevism.if you meant Alevis of Turkey then yes, we have quite a big Alevi community in Turkey.it'd better if someone with more knowledge answer you on this.

When I hear Turkmen, first Turkmens of Turkmenistan then the Turkmens of Northern Iraq comes to my mind.sorry budy, can't help you much




"When one hears such music, what can one say, but .... Salieri?"
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  Quote Hak-Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2005 at 17:14


we are close

Azerbaijan
Turkmenistan
Kazakistan
Uzbekistan
Xincan-Uyghur
Kyrgizistan


so, we are not close to any foreigners



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  Quote TheodoreFelix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2005 at 16:58
Most of the Albanian Muslims were Bektashis, the brother sect of Alevis, found by an Alevi "eren" from Khorasan, Haci Bektash Veli.


From what I know of the census only 20% of Albanian muslims were of the Bektashi sect.

No. Bektahis and Alevis were no different before they were seperated. They are still mostly same. Bektashis accept alcohol, they even use it with their religious ceremonies. And yes, Albanian Muslims pray namaz, but I guess they dont visit mosques or Mecca.


Trips to the Mecca no, but there are Albanians out there taht attend mosques. Not many. In the main mosque in Tirana, Ethem Bey Mosque(I took this pic btw    ) had liek 3-4 people who went in during prayer call. But generally, most of the Saudi funded mosques are empty.
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  Quote Tangriberdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2005 at 13:37

Turkish culture in Anatolia can be devided into four influence group

1:Aegean Coastal culture: Developped under serious Greek influence

All Aegean and Mediteranean coastal zone except Mersin and Adana and beyond 

2:Istanbulite culture: Developped under Iranian Arabic and Turkic influeces, may be trivial Greek influence.

All of Marmara region

3: Pontic coastal culture: Developped under Greek and Caucasian influence  

As We name it it includes only Black Sea coasts

4: Inner Anatolian Culture : Developped from Native Anatolian culture with the influences of Turkic and Iranian cultures.

It includes Eastern Anatolian culture as well.

We cannot say Kurdish culture affected Turkish culture.

We can say that Iranian culture because Persian appearance of the influence overweighs. E.g People may ask Namin ne in Eastern Anatolia instead of smin or Adn ne?

Nam is Persian Naam for the Name

It is absolutely Persian effect not Kurdish if it was The question should be Naavin ne?

Infact Kurds have almost no effect in Eastern Anatolian Turkish Culture because until 1900s they were a minority in the region after Turks Armenians and Arabs Their percentage in total population was 5%

Kurdicization of the region has made a progress in 1950s and not complete yet.  Turks make 20% in the region and Arabs 6% according to the estimates.



Edited by Tangriberdi
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2005 at 11:37
Originally posted by strategos

And since Greece is a european country,

*why isnt it also edited*

Well since this topic IS about if turks feel closer to Iranians or greeks, I am sure we can talkl about both iranians and greeks brieifly

I agree strategos, it wasnt my sentence, Yiannis edited my post, definately for objective purposes.

Alevis are a form of shiite branch, however im not sure about the other two.

Alevis arent from the Shiite branch, it is a totally misunderstood classification. If you are talking about the Syrian Allawis, yes it may be right, but Anatolian Alevis are totally different from them. They were mistakenly called "Alevi"s, their original name was "Kizilbash". They are the followers of a distinct Turkmen sect, it is also considered as the followers of the first Islamic teachings expanding btw Central Asian Turks, by Hoca Ahmet Yesev. So basically, anatolian Alevi sect is an original Turkic version of Islam from the first Islamic period in Central Asia.

Alevis are a form of shiite branch, but I think It is much different than shiite. Sunnis and Shiite are more close each other than alevis(Infact they are a little complicated, some of them accept namaz, some dont). Even some alevis discussed If they are muslim or not, but I think It is stupidness. Also becoming alevi  is somewhat a cultural root.Some people can say, we are alevi atheistchemas-microsoft-com:vml" />hapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" oreferrelative="t" opt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"> troke joinstyle="miter">troke>ath o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f">ath>chemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />hapetype>hape id=_x0000_i1025 style="WIDTH: 12.75pt; HEIGHT: 12.75pt" alt="" type="#_x0000_t75">hape> My knowledge about this is limited, maybe oguzoglu can give more knowledge.

 

It isnt a shiite branch, the only similarity btw the is considering Hz. Ali as the real caliph and inheritor of Islamic teachings. Some Alevis pray namaz two-three times a day, some never. The Eastern Alevis still pray namaz to the rising sun (it is a shamnistic tradition). Alevis are Muslim, it shouldnt be discussed. But they have heavy elements from Central Asian shamanism, and ancient Anatolian believs. They were considered half shamans before the Ottoman reign. They used shamanistic terms and titles such as baba and dede, and they still use them.

 

Most of the Albanian Muslims were Bektashis, the brother sect of Alevis, found by an Alevi "eren" from Khorasan, Haci Bektash Veli.

 

For bektasis, It begin with Hac Bekta Veli, It was firstly, sect of Yeniceris,  It was like for Sunni than It changed.(Acording to sunnis, Maybe, Oguzoglu will say different about this. My knowledge about albanian bektasis limited, do they accept alchol? Do they pratice namaz ?

No. Bektahis and Alevis were no different before they were seperated. They are still mostly same. Bektashis accept alcohol, they even use it with their religious ceremonies. And yes, Albanian Muslims pray namaz, but I guess they dont visit mosques or Mecca.

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2005 at 10:54
Originally posted by Yasko

The original question is a difficult question. Culturally turks have been influenced by both coutries and have influenced both. Like many says it may depend where you live, if in the meditirenian&aegian coast than Greece is probably the answer if in the easteren parts than Iran will be the answer.

As for Azerbaijan and Turkey i dont see much difference, for me its the same....

If Greece-Iran played i would support Iran(and i supported Iran WC1998). But that does not mean that i find Iran closer, i ussually support the moslem countries soo.....

As a turk, i feel that racially we are Anatolians, our language and part of our culture is turkish, the other(bigger) part of our culture is Mediterranean and by our religion we are close to the Islamic world....

 

i agreeeee.

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  Quote Arpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2005 at 10:19
correct me if im wrong but is it that most alevis live in central anatolia and eastern. i know there ae few in northern iran were they are caled Al Allahi.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2005 at 10:03

Dear Erci,

   Hi there. How's it going? Well, I've got a question; are Turkish Turkmens Shi'e? Take care and take it easy.

 

 

Best wishes,

Iltirish

Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2005 at 08:15

The original question is a difficult question. Culturally turks have been influenced by both coutries and have influenced both. Like many says it may depend where you live, if in the meditirenian&aegian coast than Greece is probably the answer if in the easteren parts than Iran will be the answer.

As for Azerbaijan and Turkey i dont see much difference, for me its the same....

If Greece-Iran played i would support Iran(and i supported Iran WC1998). But that does not mean that i find Iran closer, i ussually support the moslem countries soo.....

As a turk, i feel that racially we are Anatolians, our language and part of our culture is turkish, the other(bigger) part of our culture is Mediterranean and by our religion we are close to the Islamic world....

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2005 at 07:52

Very nice ARPAD, ....I've been once in Ardabil, actually my grandma is from there, but born in Azerbaijan....I'd like to visit Tabriz one day!

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2005 at 07:45
I thnk alevs are modern moslms
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