More- should Turkey join the EU???

Yes, turkish alphabet have no q, but Turkish langauge has. So I dont think  this q or w thing has related with turkish  langauge or kurdish langauge.

Infact  why w or x is much important for kurdish nationalist? I am curious about this.  they can write their words just like  turks. whyare they deliberately using w or q? we cannot say because It is kurdish alphabet, because there is not a kurdish alphabet. Even their literature is new.

Do they want to differentiate their alphabet from turkish one?

 

 

 

 

Originally posted by Mortaza Infact  why w or x is much important for kurdish nationalist? I am curious about this.  they can write their words just like  turks. whyare they deliberately using w or q? we cannot say because It is kurdish alphabet, because there is not a kurdish alphabet. Even their literature is new. Do they want to differentiate their alphabet from turkish one?

Yes, to some degree, you are right that they want to be differenciated by using Q instead of K which will give a similar sound. However, since they are allowed recently to broadcaste in Kurdish inside Turkey and Kurds speak Kurdish at their homes, they need more letters to suit the Kurdish pronounciation. For example, to say welcome in Kurdish, it will be "be xerhati" where X here is like Kh as in Khurasan in Persian & Arabic or Ch as in Munich in German. By using Turkish alphabets, you cannot get closer to the sound of X .

Alkiviades did I say they dont?

by the way, they just used x and q,  there is not any kurdish formal instutition who have right to build a new alphabet. So who are they is another question?

�ok Ge� again we have similar words use. I mean they can explain themself with turkish alphbet too. So their aim is do differentiate, turkish and kurdish alphabet. So I dont think they are innocent writer who have nothing with politics. Infact their campaing is to destroy a common alphabet between turks and kurds.

Even I accept stupidy of banning alphabet, aim was not against kurdish langauge. It is just a stupid law for now.

No need to show it as anti-kurdish law. Infact It was against to arabic alphabet.

 

 

 

 

The state television itself uses those letters in the Kurdish programs. The reality is that despite the recent freedoms that are provided, the judiciary organ consists of some conservatist people and the executive or legislative organs cannot interfere them since there's the seperation of powers. This is a wrong action done by one court and they should appeal a higher court. If the appealing court doesn't change the decision they can go to ECHR. This is the normal procedure. The government (I'm not saying that they support this or not) cannot interfere the job of the judiciary now.

Originally posted by Phallanx Originally posted by Beylerbeyi 3. when the state crackdowns violently (as the Ottomans usually did) complaining to the Great Powers, whose newspapers would write about 'Infidels killing poor Christians by the millions', giving them excuses to attack the Ottoman Empire This is totally inaccurate the least I could say.. Where were the "Great Powers" and exactly how do we see their assistance, would it be in the face of Rigas Velinstinlis, that attempted to upraise the subjects and in return was arrested by the Austrians and handed over to the Ottomans only to be found strangled in Belgrade in 1798. Or would it be the Great Powers assistance seen in the deeds of the Russian Tzar. The same Tzar that denounced any participation to A. Ypsilantis 'plan' and stated that the Sultan was allowed to 'handle the rebelous as he choosed', just to satisfy his reaction to Ypsilantis' involvement. The Sultan issued an order to the Muslim religious leader to slaughter the Christians, he and two prime ministers that refused which lead to their execution. Dispite their original rejections, the persecution of several thousand Hellines throughout the land but especially in Constantinoupoli wasn't avoided. How about the French, who were giving advice to the Ottomans as seen in Navarino with the Admiral Lieu....(something) Or would it be the British that dispatched E.Cordington (after PM G.Canning's death) for destroying the Ottoman fleet in Navarino, which interestingly enough, they obviously didn't want... Should I continue with the bloodsucking loans that never arrived or the ships allegedly bought with these exact loans that again were invisible.. There undoubtably was some assistance in the later part of the revolution, but not as you present it, the so-called "Great Powers" literally didn't give a damn untill Egypt got into the 'game'...

Although the ex-Ottoman subjects were disappointed by the Great Powers several times, it is obvious that non of them could be independent without their support. The Treaties of Kuchuk Kaynarca (1774), Treaty of Edirne/Adrianopolis (1829), Treaty of Haghiastephanos  (1878) and Treaty of Berlin (1878) show how the Great Powers supported the independences or autonomies of the Christian subjects of the Ottoman Empire and how Russia acted as the protector of the Orthodoxes. Finaly, the Treaty of Sevres show that how eager they were to share even the lands that were mainly habited by Turks.

You mention the advices of a Frenchman to Ottomans at Navarino but you don't say that the Ottoman navy was destroyed by the Great Powers there.  

So, in the final analysis, despite the few disappointments of the ex-Ottoman subjects, they owe their independence to the Great Powers.

 

Originally posted by Kapikulu ] I can just laugh to these claims. It had been truly 25 years after a military junta has intervened into governmental issues. With the latest reforms made for EU integration and even constitutional reforms, it had been seen that government has the power..

You may laugh all you like, unfortunately the search engine on the "Turkish Daily Press" site sucks big time, otherwise I'd have the pleasure of posting their pic.
A pic of the "Turkish National Staff" that, as seen in the pic is comprised by a bunch of dudes in military uniforms and medals hanging from their chest... but then again, it must have been an older pic of Erdogan and his cabinet during last halloween while they were "trick or treating"...

When I see Turkish generals making political statements that contain the phrase "act of war", with not a single reaction by your goverment..  that,  dear friend, means the goverment has NO power over them...

I would love it if the goverment of Hellas just went and said: "it's my right to do so based on international laws, so of NOW, the borders are 12 miles... Then we'd see what will happen..

Originally posted by   ] In fact so called war was started by Armenians and you know it..... you're talking about Turks here! ..... yet why do you think Turkey is about join the EU without recognizing the so called genocide?

Firstly I never mentioned Armenians, Janissary did and no sorry, I know the history issue of ethnic cleansing of Anatolia quite differently, I know the internationally accepted version that you claim to be a lie but that isn't the issue here...

Well, Turk, Bulgarian, Romanian, American, German...etc. makes absolutely no difference to me.. Unless you believe it should, which I don't understand.
What on earth does "you're talking to Turks" mean, should I feel intimidated or something, is this some claim of superior knowledge of historic facts... anyway don't bother, I simply don't care..

Finally, EU membership is some 10-15yrs away, there are specific issues on the table and more will be added as time passes. If you and your compatriots believe that, "hey we're in", you're obviously far from reality..

kotumeyil

You are speaking generally while I am specifically speaking about Hellas and our war of independance in 1821, which was the issue brought up by Beylerbeyi.. The treaties, exept that of "Andrianopole" had nothing to do with our independence. But even that was an already done deal, we had already freed the major part of Hellas..

As for the British involvement, you must have missed it, cause I specifically mention  "the dispatchment of E.Cordington (after PM G.Canning's death) for destroying the Ottoman fleet in Navarino"

Their eye as always was only set on economic benefits, obviously the dispatchment as many other "mysterious" little issues came after a good deal, better than what they had with us..

Originally posted by ] As anyone can see, this is about general tactics of the minorities in the Ottoman Empire. Exactly what Kotumeyil was talking about. It was YOU who brought up 1821, quoting the point 3 there. Which means that you are either unable to comprehend such a clearly written text, or lying to score points.

This is the second time (and a third and fourth below) you're refering towards my posts and mention lies and manipulation, I strongly suggest you change you act..
I have NEVER posted anything that is a manipulated version of anything... If you don't understand what you write, that is your prob..

READ what you posted..

As to the bad memories of Greeks, well, Turks have bad memories too.... And Greeks have killed many Turks in rebellions as well.

So do you care to reconsider exactly WHO brought up 1821, unless by rebelion you mean something else than the evident ???

This is another highly visible lie. You read more Turkish news than most Turks on this site, and we all know why...

As I've said before you haven't seen bashing, you don't know what the experience will feel like, but if you continue and push goes to shove, I guarantee you will find out exactly how my "No Turkey in the EU" bashing works, just so you understand the difference..

As for my interest in foreign news articles or anything related to the Balkans, Aegean and economy, it's not my fault the Turkish members aren't interested in what goes on around them, that is strictly your (general) problem..

Learn to use the internet as a source of knowledge, but don't go around blaiming others that have seen it's real purpose, while you're into chat rooms with 12yr olds.. or shakin the tree in some site

Two more lies. That statement was made by the National Security Council, which is half military half civilian, not 'Turkish generals'. Secondly it is not true that there was no reaction from the government. That point was debated. .

Are you honestly in here looking for an argument, don't you even comprehend what YOU post????

I see it's difficult cause the "phonoreception" is some how limited....

What did I say ???

When I see Turkish generals making political statements that contain the phrase "act of war"

(the no reaction is irrelevent)

NOW what did you say ????

. That statement was made by the National Security Council, which is half military half civilian

What the hell are the half military YOU mention ...

Oh, so they're not Generals, OK, lieutenants or private or whatever the hell rank they may be,  simple, ARE THEY MILITAY OR NOT ????

Why do you go around speaking of lies and intentional manipulation when you, yourself just a couple of lines down accept that they are MILITARY and DO HAVE INFLUENCE:

I surely think that this council should not exist, and the generals should not talk about foreign policy, it is not democratic at all. This is a given. But you distort the news to say 'Turkey is ruled by the generals', which is not true. They have a lot of influence in some matters, yes but rule Turkey? No.  This sort of manipulation is what you do all the time

Besides, the "ruled by the military goons for a long time to come" comment is my PERSONAL opinion, so please enlighten us, exactly HOW the hell does someone manipulate his PERSONAL beliefs while presenting them..
Do you have any inside info that I was thinking of posting something different but in the process something came over me and I intentionally manipulated the original idea while posting...

You're honestly NOT worth the time I spend posting an answer, so please  end it here.. you can say nothing of interest to me simply because you show what you represent in your following comment...

Why you'd love to see that? Do you want Turkey to have more islands in the Aegean or what?  Luckily for both sides your politicans are not that stupid.

Blah, Blah, Blah... another underaged child that hasn't yet seen a gun (well maybe exept one of those that 12yr olds play "cops and robbers" with) speaks of conquering lands...
But that is the quality of discussion you can offer... "Turkey will take your islands", "Turkey is powerfull" , "Turkey has a population of 70 mil. while little Hellas has only 10", "we will turn Rhodes into a Turkish summer resort"....etc..

My nephew makes a better argument than you...

I just might quote him in my next post...

Edited by Phallanx

Time to check your temperatures folks. This tennis match seems to be making a few highlight reels.

Who's winning?

well let me remember our main problems.

1. Some woman treated childs not fine.They should  be hanged.(I am not humanist)

2. Arabs decided to build biggest skyscraper Istanbul ever saw, and we are discussing If It would make istanbul more beatiful or not.

3. A professor accused  with some crime.

No greece. Infact last year, we dont remember greece  much without EU.

well lets accept, We remember greece, with Tugce KAZAZ too.

 

 

 

 

Originally posted by Phallanx Anyway, as for the entrance in the EU, I'm honestly starting to believe that the reason Turkey is continuously provoking... be it by threats of war, (that accordinng to Article 2.4 of the UN Charter are unacceptable)  rediculous fines for using foreign letters just to humiliate Kurds, judicial decisions beyond any logic....etc.. the only reason I can find for such screw ups, is because Turkey doesn't really want to enter the EU as a full member.

In Turkey it is used one alphabet. This official aplhabet is used in education and daily life. How do you expect that there should be as many alphabet for every minorities in a single country?

If your answer is yes so Greece should accept that Turks in Greece should use Turkish alphabet. Persians, Russians, Bulgarians should accept Turkish alphabet too...... This is nonsense...

In Turkey there are not different policies determined independently by military. This is a Greek dream. Since the Turkish army are their biggest fear they are trying to do something. Turkish foreign policies are determined by civil authorities alomg with military . This is so in every country. Turkish army is a part of Turkish society and state.

Greece has no right to expend its sea and air borders in Agean Sea without Turkey's appoval. Turkey's stance in the issue is not opposing everything in favor of Greece, it is simply preserving our rights to go to open seas in international waters without getting permission of Greece. So you cannot change the status quo in the Agean Sea determined by two countries in the past. You have to see that this is one of the vital interests of Turkey and do not force it too much since vital interests may create wars. Turkey is not demanding anything from Greece but in fact Greece wants "something" from Turkey.

In fact the Greece's policy is "everything bad for Turkey should be my policy".

As Harriri event with Syria showed that any country who supports a terrorist activity in another state should be punished. The relation between Greece and PKK terrorist organization is very well documented. Not in one event as in the Harriri case but during years and many events Greece has supported terrorist activities against Turkey. Do not talk to us about democracy, human rights and other lies as being a supporter of fascist and terrorist Greek state and officials.

It was Greek military who organized coup d'etat in Cyprus in 1974 before the Turkish intervention. This fascist mind is still influential inside Greek state and army. If this mentality continues to be dominant in Greece, the necessary steps will be taken by Turkey. You will live as a mature and civilised manner or these will be teached you sooner or later.