The first point in regard the issue of the "sinking" of Atlantis is that we have shown/proven that alot of details throughout (the English translations of) the Atlantis Account certainly seem to clearly imply that the whole island of Atlantis was a very large island [(South) America] and not just a/the small royal island capital city [Tiahuanaco]. Therefore the "sinking" must be either the whole large island "sank" [crust displacement or continental shift] or else just the city area/part of Atlantis.
Because Atlantis was a large island, and because there are no sunken/submerged whole large islands/landmasses in the Atlantic Ocean and other oceans, the large island of Atlantis must be one of the 7 contintents. If it was the whole large island that "sunk", then since the large island of Atlantis must be one of the 7 continents [specifically (South) America (as assertained from all the details of the Account including size, direction, distance, etc)] a common objection of people is that the continent has not "sunk". Therefore either: Atlantis was not large, or Atlantis is not one of the continents, or it is not true that no large sunken/submerged landmass in oceans, or the whole large island did not "sink", or the "sinking" was not literal sinking in the way that people assume from the English translation wording, or it is not true that continent has not seemingly "sunk". There can be no doubt/dispute about the size of the whole island (see the first post). There is not much doubt that there are no known discovered large sunken/submerged landmasses in the modern Atlantic and other oceans. (In addition, the mid-Atlantic ridge is going upwards and outwards, not inwards and downwards (except for small bits like Surtsey island).) But the last 3 options there are possible doubts about: it is possible that only the city area "sunk" not the whole large island; it is seemingly possible that the "sinking" description is not meant the way that people assume it is; it is possible for a continent to genuinely seem to have "sunk below the sea" or been "swallowed up by the sea" or "disappeared/vanished".
On one hand the Account seems to imply that the whole large island disappeared (except for "mud" "shoal"). On the other hand the Account may perhaps imply that only the city area "sunk". The inaccessable "Atlantic sea/pelagos" (and/or "muddy sea") seemingly might be either the Atlantic ocean or lake Titicaca? (For the Atlantic possible matches include: Sargasso sea? "mucky water Bermuda"? sea floor sediments? Bermuda triangle? changed currents? banks/bars/rises like Brendan's whale? increased width of Atlantic Ocean from continental shift? For the Titicaca area possible matches include: Titicaca is now an inland lake; Tiahuanaco is no longer connected with waters of Titicaca as it once was; evidences of Flood at Tiahuanaco site; Andean sources have mention of 'llullaillaco' "dirty water" (llulla +yacu); "mud that floats" (Uros); mud in the Uros floating island area near Puno; "... many more still lie buried in the ground under layers of sediment from ... flooding from Lake Titicaca.")
The English version(s) of the Account is not very good. The Atlantis Account doesn't necessarily say or imply "sank/sunk/sink". Some translations do say "sank" but others say "swallowed(-up)". Marcellinus also says "a large island was swallowed up"? Philo says "in 1 day & night overwhelmed beneath sea in extraordinary earthquake(s) and flood(s)". "a serpent populace was destroyed by a "star falling from the heavens". Only one survived on an island "destined to be completely submerged". (- Leningrad Papyrus.)
Another point is one must consider all possibilities for what the "sinking" catastrophe/event could, and then deduct what ones can or can't match all the details given in the Atlantis Account. A long list of possibilities for the "sinking" includes: literal sinking/subsidence; submergence (rising sea levels); continental shift; earth crust displacement ("pole shift"); the Great Flood; tidal bulge; expanding globe/earth; Carthaginian propaganda; tidal wave/"tsunami"; only the city area "sunk"? lost-bearings (before Columbus)? faded memory (before Columbus)? declined voyages / contracted known world (before (it expanded after) Columbus)? the civilisation/port no longer exists? Tiahuanco flood (archaeology & myth/tradition)?; volcanic explosion (Thera); one of the 4 world ages ends/catastrophes/deluges? fiction/myth/lie? a (flash) flood? etc. (In addition, heavenly "deluge" causers theories include: Luna/Moon/Selene, [Phaethon, Sekhmet, Tishtrya,] Halleys comet, [near pass by of Venus,] [exploded planet between Mars & Jupiter,] [near pass by of Mars, "red moon", "Nibiru",] etc.)
A short list of the possibilities for the "sinking" is: The "sinking" is either: the land went down (literally sunk/subsided); or, the water went up (submerged by rising sea levels after ice age; rain; Flood; tidal bulge from lunar capture); or, the land went sideways (continental shift; expanding globe); or, the water went sideways (tidal wave/"tsunami"; slosh); or, land & water sideways (crust displacement/"pole shift" & slosh; axis tilt). (- sea currents change?) (- air currents change?) (There is no mention of ice (in the Atlantis area) in the "sinking" of Atlantis island.) [* In the case of land sideways, some/part of the land can go up (like the Andes), so it is wrong for people to assert Atlantis can't be in Andes because "Atlantis sunk (not risen) but Andes risen (not sunk)".]
Compare that "Joshua halting sun" / "sun stand still" in Bible is true yet not literal is it? The people that viciously/scathingly insist that the "sink beneath sea" only means what they think and can't mean our other options, do they take this bible text as literally? When i quoted official source sayng that scientists saw with their own eyes "Venus turning inside out" someone said to me "it didn't literally/really/actualy turn inside out". Celts believing the "sky fall on their heads" isn't totally literal is it? The ancients sources about "the Sun god descending into & travelling through the underworld" isn't quite literally correct is it?
Possible evidences for Crust Displacement/"Pole Shift" being the event described in the Atlantis Account include: - "terrible quake(s) & flood(s)". ("Flood(s)" & "swallowed by sea" might match that Crust Displacement/Pole Shift/Ice Slip entails seas sloshing?) - The mention of Phaethon? and/or that Atlantis was "then under the sun"? (Flem-Ath thought that the Atlantis Account implies that there was a "change in the path of the sun" in connection with Atlantis "sinking"?) Perhaps compare "hitching post of the sun" at Macchu Picchu? Peru/Tiahuanaco/Tiwanaku was on the equator at one time according to pole shift(s) maps. - "Pole Shifts" are now widely accepted as historical fact. - It solves the contention that Atlantis had to be on same fault line as Athens. - The compass points on the Inca picture from the Coricancha may possibly imply pole shift? (The tilted route of Viracocha might possibly too?) - Flem-Ath said that the [?west] coast of (N) America once faced-south in a pervious pole position, like the Account says the side of Atlantis faced south? - The mention of extremities of heat & frost in a couple of places in the Account? - The Atlantis Account seems to indicate/imply a cosmic/global/regional/continental scale/size catastrophe? ("greatest of all destructions of water"; Many great deluges; quantity of mud; terrible quake(s) & flood(s); single dreadful day & night; extraordinary rain; overwhelmed by quakes; Atlantis & Athens "on same faultline"; flood of Deucalion; change in path of sun? the [whole] [?large] island of Atlantis disappeared/vanished; at the usual period; the stream from heaven; 3rd deluge; etc.) [Compare the 4 world ages may match ca 4 pole shifts? Compare fire/cancer/leo & flood/water/capricorn/aquarius/ice (of Egyptian/Berosus/Druids/Norse)?]
Possible evidences for continental shift being the event described in the Account include: - "terrible quake(s) & flood(s)". - Evidences that the Andes have been pushed up higher in lifetime of humans & civilisation. - it would alleviate the distance dispute. - If the island shifted and the ocean widened then the whole large island Atlantis would have genuinely appeared to have been "sunk beneath the sea" and disappeared/vanished except for "muddy" "shoal" like the Account seemingly/maybe says or implies? (And the known world would have contracted.) - sources mention about the eels, butterflies, lemmings, birds going out into Atlantic, which may imply Atlantic once narrower width/distance? (Some classical sources similarily mention ships/boats similarily going-out to look for Atlantis.) (Though some claim that these migrations claims are not true.) - Hapgood had shifts in his book/theory. - It solves the contention that Atlantis had to be on same fault line as Athens, since touching tectonic plates. - Mass extinction sites from Alaska to Mexico, and Bogota to .... - Kirchir map possibly shows [South] America closer than [North] America? (Though S America is centred further east than N America.) - Stonehenge damaged on south-west side? Possible evidences against shift include: - the Piri Reis map maybe shows Atlantic same width? - Critics claim it is "geologically impossible". It would maybe cause (too much) too massive tidal waves/"tsunamis". - both sides of Atlantic would have to shift outwards, not just one side?
Contrary to orthodox geologists assertations, there are indisputible evidences that the Andes were pushed up (or pulled up) higher in the lifetime of humans & civilisation. References include Darwin, Lissner, Velikovsky, Berlitz, etc. The evidences include: - evidences that Andes/Peru once had Pacific ocean climate. - raised beaches with human cultural remains like nets high up in the Andes. - "sea ports in the Andes". - Tiahuanaco was flooded. - they could not have built some of the megalithic/monolithic structures in such high altitude rarified air. - tilted Titicaca water marks. - cracked & strewn buildings & blocks. - Hercules holding Antaeus up off the earth could possibly connect with Andes raised higher?
Lots of ancient and modern sources given evidences for catastrophism versus uniformitarianism. Velikovsky's book 'Earth in Upheaval' is full of such evidences.
Tiahuanaco/Tiwanaku has archaeological evidences of [the Atlantis] quake(s) and the flood(s) in the site. Eg: ""blocks tossed/scattered"? Cracked 'gate(way) of the sun'; "broken megaliths"? Cerro santo vilca / Pampa Aullagas earthquake damage on west; "an avalanche/flood of water, and a sudden upheaval of unknown nature"; "... many more still lie buried in the ground under layers of sediment from ... flooding from Lake Titicaca."
Andean/Peruvian myths also attest a Flood similar to the Atlantis one ('Unu Pachacuti' "water overturns land", see Jim Allen). (Some people counter claim that the Flood was before Tiahuanaco built, but there are seemingly 2 flood myths and the 2nd one has Flood some amount of time after it was built.)
"You shall understand... that about 3000 yrs ago, or somewhat more (ca 1500 bc), the navigation of the world, especially for remote voyages, was greater than at this day. Do not think with yourselves that i know not how much it is increased with you within these 6 score yrs; i know it well; and yet i say, greater than now. So you see by this main accident of time we lost our traffic with the Americas... As for other parts of the world, it is most manifest that in the ages following ... navigation did everywhere greatly decay, and esp for far voyages." - Sir Francis Bacon 'New Atlantis' 1627.
Date of Atlantis "sinking" in Peruvian sometime between: after the 1st Flood before Tiahuanaco built; long night ca 1400 bc (Sitchin/Alford/Hoeh) [900 yrs before Amasis].
Date of Atlantis "sinking" in Atlantis Account ("Plato"): It is said that the Atlantis Account doesn't say how much or little time gap there was between the war and the "sinking"? The Account seems to imply it was the 3rd deluge? The "900(0)" years date is disputed & contrary to assertations of some/many it is not at all certain it was literal 9000 yrs
Date of Atlantis "sinking" in Greek sometime between: pro-selenoi "pre-Lunar; confusion between deluges of Ogyges/Venus/Phaethon & Deucalion [~ Shu?]/Atlantis; Trojan war (Zangger)? Pelasgians of Thalassocraies [~ Sea Peoples?]
Date of Atlantis "sinking" in Egyptian sometime between: Exodus [12th dyn, 900 yrs before Amasis]; 9 days tempest of Shu (el-Arish inscription) [12th dyn, ~ Deucalion?]; shoal of Sesostris (12th or 19th dyn); Merneptah first mention Libya; sea peoples invasion (19th/20th dyn) [~ Pelasgians?]; c0caine/tobacco in 19th & 21st dyn mummies.
Date of Atlantis "sinking" in Biblical sometime between after the Flood; after earth divided in days of Peleg; Tiras "terrifying, fracture"; Exodus (c 1400s bc) [end of 12th dyn, 900 yrs before Amasis]; Joshua halts sun; stars fought in their courses (Barak/Deborah); "foundations of earth discovered" in K David's reign; great earthquake of Amos (c 750 bc); Hezekiah's sun goes back 10 steps (about same time as Numa & Nabonassar)?
The Egyptian account of the Sea Peoples invasion says that (thery came "from the ends of the world/earth", "great darkness", "9th bow/arc", "the isles and mainland of the outer circle of water" / "the great water circle [sin-wur]", "from the pillars/pillar of heaven", had "a great fleet of sailed-ships with arching prows at each end, in the shape of bird-heads.... ... the sailed ships of the Peleset were overwhelmed by the slave-oared Egyptian river craft...."; and that their "islands are uprooted and arried away .... The might of Nun (the Ocean) broke forth and fell in a great wave upon their towns and villages" (also that the head of their cities was submerged). ("Their forests and fields are burnt with fire." "The heat of him has burnt their countries." "The fire of Sekhmet has burnt the lands of the 9 bows/arcs." "As mighty fire was prepared before them." "They had before them a sea of flame.") ("Assyrian depictions of Toakkari 'Sea Peoples' bearing South American fan palm"?) [C0caine & tobacco found in 19th & 21st dyn mummies.]
All the "sinking" related excerts/quotes from "Plato's" Atlantis Account we will append to the end of this chapter. These are just very few little bits: ["terrible/portentous quake(s) & flood(s)"] / "exceeding great earthquakes and floods"; "one (grievous) day & night of-destruction/befell-them", ("all the warriors in your land"/"the whole body of your warrriors", "swallowed up by the earth",) "in (a) like manner", "the nesos/island (of) Atlantis" "sink/sank/sunk below/beneath the sea" or "was swallowed (up) by the thalassa/sea" and "disappeared/vanish(ed) (away)" "the pelagos/ocean there/at-that-spot", ["unnavigible"]/"impassable and unsearchable", "being blocked (up) by very-shallow-shoals/the-shoal-mud" / "quantity of mud" Tim 25e (& Critias 109a); "which the island caused as she/it settled down". "then under the sun"/"change in path of the sun";
"... memory of a larger island" Proclus.
"There will come a time in the late age of the world when the ocean will relax its bonds over what it holds and land will appear in its glory Thetis will uncover new continents and Thule will no longer be at the edge of the world" - Seneca.
"When the world is pregnant with lies, a secret long hidden will be revealed" - Odinist prophecy.
My refs for (Atlantis-related) "Sinking"/"Flood"/Catastrophe include :
Hoerbiger; HS Bellamy; J Spanuth; Zangger; Bible; "Plato"; Jim Allen (Atlantis in Bolivia website); R Flem-Ath (book, & 'Nexus' article); Thunderbolts; C Hapgood; D Fasold; I Velikovsky (Earth in Upheaval); [LA Waddell;] E Sykes; Andean myths; Piri Reis map; Sir F Bacon; SB Cox; D Hatcher Childress; me (http://picasaweb.google.com/seanbam2/Antipodean ; http://lifetradition.webs.com/atlantis.htm ; 'Mythos Atlantis - Historia Pangaea'); [CSF/ICR ('AIG').]
Appended quotes of all the Atlantis "sinking" catastrophe related bits of "Plato's" Atlantis Account (Critias & Timaeus).
"the destruction of the actors" / "destruction of human life" Timaeus 21a. "after the deluge, to tell of Deucalion and Pyrrha" / "how Deucalion and Pyrrha survived the flood" Tim 22b.
"there have been and there will be again many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes. There is a story ... that ... Phaethon, the son of Helios, having yoked the steeds in his father's chariot, because he was not able to drive them in the path of his father, burnt up all there was upon the earth.... ... this ... signifies a declination of the bodies moving around the earth & in the heavens, and a great conflaguration of things upon the earth recurring at long intervals of time" / "There have been and there will be many different calamities to destroy mankind, the greatest of them by fire and water, lesser ones by countless other means. ... story of ... Phaethon, child of the sun, harnessed his father's chariot, but was unable to guide it along his father's course and so burnt up things on the earth ... is ... truth that there is at long intervals a variation in the course of the heavenly bodies and a consequent widespread destruction by fire of things on the earth." Tim 22c-d.
"When on the other hand the gods purge the earth with a deluge of water...." Tim 22e. "whatever the extremity of winter frost or summer sun does not prevent" / "where excessive cold or heat does not prevent it" Tim 23a. "then, at the usual period, the stream from heaven descends like a pestilence..." / "when the periodic scourge of deluge descends" Tim 23b. "you remember one deluge only, whereas/though there have-been/were many (of them)" Timaeus 23c.
"for many generations the survivors of that destruction" / "the few survivors tha remained" Tim 23c.
"that great deluge of all" / "the greatest of all destructions by water" Tim 23d. "for in those days the Atlantic was navigable" Timaeus 25a. "... there occured violent earthquakes and floods, and in a single day and night of (extraordinary) rain all your warlike men in a body sunk into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared, and was sunk beneath the sea. And that is the reason why the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is such a quantity of shallow mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island." / "there were earthquakes and floods of extraordinary violence, and in a single dreadful day and night all your fighting men were swallowed up by the earth, and the island of Atlantis was similarily swallowed up by the sea and vanished; that is why the sea in that area is to this day impassable to navigation" Timaeus 25d-e.
"... afterward sunk by an earthquake, became an impassable barrier of mud to voyagers sailing from hence to the ocean." / "... subsequently overwhelmed by earthquakes, and is [now] the source of the impenetrable mud which prevents the free passage of those who sail [to the sea beyond]" Critias 109a.
"Many great deluges have taken place during the 9000 years..." Crit 111b. "There was a single spring in ... [Athens] that was subsequently choked by the earthquakes..." Crit 112e. "... then still under/beneath the sun..." Critias 115c.
