Print Page | Close Window

China conitnued exploring with ZHENG HO and colonized america!!!

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: All Empires Community
Forum Name: Historical Amusement
Forum Discription: For role playing and alternative history discussions.
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=813
Printed Date: 08-Dec-2022 at 04:37
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: China conitnued exploring with ZHENG HO and colonized america!!!
Posted By: phoenix_bladen
Subject: China conitnued exploring with ZHENG HO and colonized america!!!
Date Posted: 07-Oct-2004 at 16:56

Everyone speaks mandarin and east asians rule the world!




Replies:
Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 07-Oct-2004 at 17:09
Zheng He, or Cheng Ho

-------------
Arrrgh!!"


Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 07-Oct-2004 at 20:58
Wow...but not all east Asians speak mandarin....

-------------


Posted By: JanusRook
Date Posted: 08-Oct-2004 at 05:53
Yea didn't Zheng He go to africa?

-------------
Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.

Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.


Posted By: Evildoer
Date Posted: 08-Oct-2004 at 13:22

Yes. There is some Chinese DNA found in an African tribe... off the coast of Ethiopia or Somalia I heard?

Mandarin would be the "international" language.



Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 08-Oct-2004 at 23:42

Zheng He went to Arabia (he wasmuslim and wanted to go on teh haj) Somalia, where they bombarded mogadishu for some reason, Inida ad throughout Indonesia.  Some peopple claim we went to Pacific coast America but the evidence is flimsy.  However his ships were great and far better than Columbus' so he technically coudll have.

 

He was also a eunuch!



-------------
"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton


Posted By: demon
Date Posted: 09-Oct-2004 at 18:42

Everyone speaks mandarin and east asians rule the world!

Ahh, Great!  Now the whole population of earth needs to lower their brain capacity just to memorize all those weird and unique characters! 

*imagines how ppl tries to type in chinese*   What a nightmare!



-------------
Grrr..


Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 10-Oct-2004 at 19:53
lol, all history, art, and other things would be cut out of the school system for nerdy things like math and engineering!

-------------
"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton


Posted By: TMPikachu
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2004 at 14:05

Originally posted by Tobodai

lol, all history, art, and other things would be cut out of the school system for nerdy things like math and engineering!

Nah, that kind of thinking is what happened due to Ming getting all xenophobic. Instead white girls will drool over posters of Sonny Chiba, Toshiro Mifune, Bruce Lee, and other mainstream Shanghai-wood actors.

Screening at "Mann's English Theater"

 

The year today would be 2600 or 2700 something, as the Buddhist calender would probably be used. Our weeks would have numbers for each day. The Lunar New Year would be a big celebration. The English and Germans would be aware of what animal year it is. English food will remain crappy. French food will recieve a super-charge from exchange with Chinese cuisine, same with China.

'Chinese food' will henceforth be known as just 'food'

English food will henceforth be known as 'crap'

 

 

You'll be able to get hamburgers at Occidental Food restaurants, though some will complain we only get the Chinese-ized versions of foreign cuisine.

'The King and I' will be written by a Thai teacher's account of teaching the barbarous King of England the ways of civilization.

'Madam Butterfly' will be about a dashing Chinese sailor who falls in love with a dainty English beauty, bound by the Christian customs of her people.

With the invention of movies, white actors will be stereotyped as protruding browed hairy landlords, laundromat owners, and priests.


 

White actresses will get stereotypical roles as sex vixen prostitutes who speak in broken, heavily accented mandarin.

White actors will get stereotypical roles as knights templar Christians who spout random bible verse gibberish while using the mysterious powers of 'God'.

An early black and white Shangai-wood film, "The Good Earth" about poor European factory workers will feature Chinese actors in 'White Face', their brows puttied out and fake hair on their arms.

White actors will complain about the stereotyping of their roles in Shangai-wood films as playing only knights and cowboys, and that they are always sexless sidekicks while Chinese men always end up with the blonde chick. Or waiters in steak houses.

Ramen noodles will come in 'Occidental flavour'

No foods will be considered icky, people that don't like intenstines and stomach will be seen as backwards barbarians.

Chinese human rights activists will crusade about the unfair exploitation of European workers in sweatshops to make T-shirts and cheap plastic toys for the international super-giant fast food empire 'Panda Express'

We'd learn in our history books about Genghis Khan the Great. Alexander will be a footnote in the 'history of the far west' chapter.

 

This forum would have...

'Ming and the Exploratory age' section

a 'Medieval Asia' section

no 'Asian History' section

and an 'Occidental History' section

 

 

 

 

 



Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2004 at 15:52
Are you copy and pasting this same thing from some other site?

-------------
Arrrgh!!"


Posted By: TMPikachu
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2004 at 18:12

Originally posted by Cywr

Are you copy and pasting this same thing from some other site?

nope. Copy-paste from what I've said in another thread.



Posted By: demon
Date Posted: 11-Oct-2004 at 20:02

1 problem:

Europe: Several competing nations

China: One fat country without rivals nearby

----

So how would any1 expect China to self develop as in Europe?  Wasn't that the reason Zeng Ho's fleet were left to crumble?



-------------
Grrr..


Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 12-Oct-2004 at 13:15
ah, but if Ming had expanded they would come into contact with others, maritime competition cna be jsut a fearsome as that over land.

-------------
"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton


Posted By: TMPikachu
Date Posted: 12-Oct-2004 at 14:40
Originally posted by demon

1 problem:

Europe: Several competing nations

China: One fat country without rivals nearby

----

So how would any1 expect China to self develop as in Europe?  Wasn't that the reason Zeng Ho's fleet were left to crumble?

That's why this is "what if"

What if Ming decided not to rest on its laurels, and do the very stupid act of closing itself off from the world?

I'm answering that question.

How could it happen? Well...

 

Zu Di would have to live a little longer. He greatly promoted Chinese exploratory efforts.

from http://www.paulnoll.com/China/Dynasty/Ming-1403-Cheng-Zu.html - http://www.paulnoll.com/China/Dynasty/Ming-1403-Cheng-Zu.htm l

"His reign began an intensification of diplomatic and commercial activity on the seas. At the beginning of the 15th century the Chinese navy remained ahead of that of the Portuguese and Spanish. Seven expeditions by Zheng He had traveled to Java, Sumatra, Ceylon, India, the Persian Gulf, and the coast of eastern Africa. "

He was buddy-buddy with the Eunichs, who were also the admirals. The Mandarin, on the other hand, believing in their own twisted form of confucian values, looked down upon the role of soldier and merchant (who benefited from the exploratory efforts). The Mandarin were anti-exploration and practically anti-anything-outside-of-China. They believed these explorations were completely useless and only drained the treasury. True, really, 'cause they weren't making a profit. But at the same time in the Imperial Capital, princes, ambassadors, kings and caliphs from as far as East Africa came. The King of Japan bowed before the Emperor of China. Language and naval schools were open to produce sailors, explorers, merchants; all the sorts of people that would have the drive to set their feet outside of China's (quite wide) borders.

So as Zheng He is out exploring and increasing the horizons of Chinese knowledge...

Zu Di dies after a few years of going crazy while leading a failed campaign in Central Asia, his palace burning down, Vietnam rebelling (where do you think the shipwood came from?).

His weak minded son rules for a year. The Mandarin get what they want and exploration is cut. The language schools are shut down. Teaching Chinese (whatever form) to a foreigner is now illegal. The explorers come back to find that they're not welcomed as heroes, and are now without jobs. The admirals are demoted, some commit suicide for they cannot live with the shame. The 400ft long treasure ships are scuttled, the knowledge of how to build them is lost. Their exploratory records are burned. Trade with foreign nations becomes illegal, resulting in a huge swell of Chinese/Japanese pirates over the years. Each successive Emperor becomes more and more xenophobic. China begins its 600 years of self-imposed exile, where they stagnate and rot while the world passes them by.

 

Change that, and world history would have been changed.

 



Posted By: demon
Date Posted: 13-Oct-2004 at 17:29

Well, that doesn't mean that China will beat Europe... I mean, it were fishing boats lead by Francis drake who defeated the 150 Spanish Armada invencible armed with Cannons on Galleons, so 400ft long treasureship doesn't mean much

Just a big fat sitting duck ready to yield a lot of spoil for pirates.  And Brits were excellent pirates (many have viking blood as a matter of fact)

I expect China to go no further than being defeated just like Spain was, and end up somewhat near as today.

History would change, like Zeng Ho found California, but not much after that.

Nah, that kind of thinking is what happened due to Ming getting all xenophobic. Instead white girls will drool over posters of Sonny Chiba, Toshiro Mifune, Bruce Lee, and other mainstream Shanghai-wood actors.

Screening at "Mann's English Theater"

 

The year today would be 2600 or 2700 something, as the Buddhist calender would probably be used. Our weeks would have numbers for each day. The Lunar New Year would be a big celebration. The English and Germans would be aware of what animal year it is. English food will remain crappy. French food will recieve a super-charge from exchange with Chinese cuisine, same with China.

'Chinese food' will henceforth be known as just 'food'

English food will henceforth be known as 'crap'

 

 

You'll be able to get hamburgers at Occidental Food restaurants, though some will complain we only get the Chinese-ized versions of foreign cuisine.

'The King and I' will be written by a Thai teacher's account of teaching the barbarous King of England the ways of civilization.

'Madam Butterfly' will be about a dashing Chinese sailor who falls in love with a dainty English beauty, bound by the Christian customs of her people.

With the invention of movies, white actors will be stereotyped as protruding browed hairy landlords, laundromat owners, and priests.


 

White actresses will get stereotypical roles as sex vixen prostitutes who speak in broken, heavily accented mandarin.

White actors will get stereotypical roles as knights templar Christians who spout random bible verse gibberish while using the mysterious powers of 'God'.

An early black and white Shangai-wood film, "The Good Earth" about poor European factory workers will feature Chinese actors in 'White Face', their brows puttied out and fake hair on their arms.

White actors will complain about the stereotyping of their roles in Shangai-wood films as playing only knights and cowboys, and that they are always sexless sidekicks while Chinese men always end up with the blonde chick. Or waiters in steak houses.

Ramen noodles will come in 'Occidental flavour'

No foods will be considered icky, people that don't like intenstines and stomach will be seen as backwards barbarians.

Chinese human rights activists will crusade about the unfair exploitation of European workers in sweatshops to make T-shirts and cheap plastic toys for the international super-giant fast food empire 'Panda Express'

We'd learn in our history books about Genghis Khan the Great. Alexander will be a footnote in the 'history of the far west' chapter.

 

This forum would have...

'Ming and the Exploratory age' section

a 'Medieval Asia' section

no 'Asian History' section

and an 'Occidental History' section

Funny how you refer to occidental human rights right there....China had no history of human rights, while the Occidental world did.  And that's why I believe the Occidental world managed to archieve democracy.  China would have never gained that status. 

Also, explain how that discovery of America impact the world.  It makes no sense for me to see a bunch of chinese land in a desert with perhaps some gold, but nothing more, to change the world.  You just answered what will happen if China became a superpower, not when China discovered America.  These two stuffs are really irrelevant to me. 



-------------
Grrr..


Posted By: warhead
Date Posted: 13-Oct-2004 at 19:26

"Funny how you refer to occidental human rights right there....China had no history of human rights, while the Occidental world did.  And that's why I believe the Occidental world managed to archieve democracy.  China would have never gained that status.  "

 

No country in the 15th century had what modern day standard of human rights, neither Oriental or occidental. But whats crucial difference is China had a efficient bureucracy and promoted people based on merit rather than nobility, this is an aspect of human right that Europe lacked. 15th century European boats are also no where near the same standard as that of Francis Drake, not in term of damage control or fire power. But its ridiculous to say that China would dominate the world, more liekly it would prevent Europe from dominating the world.



Posted By: TMPikachu
Date Posted: 14-Oct-2004 at 19:20
I have a sense of humor.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 27-Oct-2004 at 01:04
Two words William Hun(wierd looking chinese guy on American Idol). I don't know if I spelled his last name right. 


Posted By: Gubook Janggoon
Date Posted: 27-Oct-2004 at 01:31
Hehe...it's hung...SHe bangs she bangs!

-------------


Posted By: sephodwyrm
Date Posted: 31-Oct-2004 at 20:15
Very funny thread. Could have been better without all those stereotypes.

-------------
"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them"
"Not what goes into the mouth that defiles the Man, but what comes out of the mouth" Matthew 7:12, 15:11


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2004 at 10:08
Come on, China is not the only country that's being stereotyped. Just look at some other topics. There are made many jokes of surrendering French, Bratwurst and Oktoberfest Germans, Wylsh spwkyng pyply, pot-smoking Dutch, English food, etc.
As long as is isn't meant serious or made for racist intentions there isn't much wrong about making jokes about stereotypes. I think all people on AE are mature enough to understand those stereotypes are not based on thruth.


-------------


Posted By: demon
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2004 at 18:23
And it takes humor to understand them as a laugh rather than get anger with. 

-------------
Grrr..


Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 03-Nov-2004 at 10:58
without stereotypes the world would be...so humourless

-------------
"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton


Posted By: MengTzu
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2004 at 15:47

Hey demon,

    you wrote, "Funny how you refer to occidental human rights right there....China had no history of human rights, while the Occidental world did.  And that's why I believe the Occidental world managed to archieve democracy.  China would have never gained that status."

    You're not familiar with Chinese ancient culture.  The idea of democracy was suggested as early as third or second century B.C. by Meng Tzu (yay.)  The idea of human rights did not reach what it is today until very recently.  If it could develop in the West, it most certainly could develop in the East.  Confucianism is often called by the West a humanistic philosophy, for example, though it is a oversimplification, certain elements of Eastern thoughts do contain ideas similar to Western humanism.

    That is not to say that Confucianism only contains humanistic ideas.  It also contains the opposite.  But same can be said of Western thoughts.

Peace,

Michael

11-4-2004



Posted By: demon
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2004 at 17:51

You're not familiar with Chinese ancient culture.  The idea of democracy was suggested as early as third or second century B.C. by Meng Tzu (yay.)  The idea of human rights did not reach what it is today until very recently.  If it could develop in the West, it most certainly could develop in the East.  Confucianism is often called by the West a humanistic philosophy, for example, though it is a oversimplification, certain elements of Eastern thoughts do contain ideas similar to Western humanism.

Enlighten me.  Who is meng tzu?  What did he do?  and don't forget to Prove your claim.



-------------
Grrr..


Posted By: JanusRook
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2004 at 20:01

Meng Tzu (Mencius), was the Second teacher of Confucianism. He was a great philosopher and wrote a few major confucianist books, although I can't recite which ones off the top of my head.

I don't think confucianism's goal was human rights though. It's basically you should do this because that is the way things are done.



-------------
Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.

Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.


Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2004 at 21:57
It was more of way to stabilize society and also so that there would be less need to divert funds for policing.  Nothing no matter how idealistic is ever adoopted unless practical, and it is likely to be revisioned many times regardless of who/why adopts it.

-------------
"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton


Posted By: demon
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2004 at 01:12
Oh oh.  Thanx ppl.  Meng Tzu is Meng Ja in korean

-------------
Grrr..



Print Page | Close Window

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz - http://www.webwizguide.com