Most Significant Event in History from 1000 to 1500 C.E.
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Topic: Most Significant Event in History from 1000 to 1500 C.E.
Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Subject: Most Significant Event in History from 1000 to 1500 C.E.
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 01:17
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Who is ready for another discussion in world history? What was the most Important Event in History from 1000 to 1500 C.E.? Overview of Events:
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Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 03:55
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Can you pls. include the fall of Byzantine Empire in the list? it fell in May 29, 1453. |
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 11:56
I'm sure this is covered by "The rise of the Ottoman Empire". I can't decide between the "Voyages of Columbus" for obvious reasons, and the introduction of the printing press into Europe by Gutenberg. The latter made the spread of Luther's reformation possible, which in my humble opinion is the single most important event in the history of ideas after 1000AD. Without the printing press that could produce literature for the masses, the monopoly of the Catholic Church both on content and the distribution of thought, would have been much harder to break. And the breaking up of that monopoly set a process of critical thinking and the implementation of its findings in motion, that starting from the reformation, facilitated most of what we cherish today, freedom of thought, human rights, scientific research, etc. On second thoughts, it is Gutenberg. ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: ulrich von hutten
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 12:43
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what's about the reformation? the first time the catholic authorities
were challenged. the attached building of the late mediavell get first
cracks. but without the invention of pressing it would last probably a bit longer. ------------- 
http://imageshack.us"> 
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 12:53
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I'd say it's a tie between Gutenberg and Columbus
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Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 12:54
It only started in 1517. A bit too late for the poll. Otherwise you are right. ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: Maju
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 12:54
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Reformation started in 1520.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER! |
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 13:07
I don't want to be too picky here, but the, usually quoted official start of the Lutherian Reformation was on October 31, 1517, when the great man nailed his 95 theses on the Chuch door in Wittenberg, and all hell broke loose after that, as the document was mass printed on Gutenberg's presses and quickly distributed throughout Germany and abroad. ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: sdavidr
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 13:15
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I was thinking about The fall of Constantinopla in 1453 that meant the closing of the commercial activities with the Eastern Mediterranean, reason why the European bourgeoisie had to look for new commercial routes towards the west, stimulating therefore the development of the navigation techniques that later would facilitate the great geographic discoveries. So, one point goes to "Rise of the Ottoman Empire". ------------- ____________________________ |
Posted By: Heraclius
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 13:21
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1453 was a greatly symbolic year, but the rise of the Ottomans was already assured, the survival of one city wasnt going to make any difference and its fall was in real terms had purely a symbolic impact. I'd say Gutenberg, but for pure beauty and achievement it has to be the Renaissance. ------------- A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough. |
Posted By: Imperator Invictus
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 13:32
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1453 was a great year. It was also the year that the Hundred Yeras' war ended. But most of it was symbolic. Most of the discussions have gone toward events near the end of the era. In fact, those events effectively marked the end of the Post-Classical period, going by the notion that the significant events in world history of this period are those that led into the Early modern period (ie. Rennaissance). In the long run, those events proved to be influential (because they eventually made Europe the most influential region). However, I think that for short-term influence, the Mongol Conquests had the most impact. ------------- |
Posted By: Degredado
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 13:36
Only to the very ignorant. The discoveries began way before Columbus. The very same can be said of colonialism. ------------- Vou votar nas putas. Estou farto de votar nos filhos delas |
Posted By: gcle2003
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 13:45
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I go for the Renaissance. Give it another century and I'd have said Copernicus. Another one and of course it would have to be the scientific revolution ushered in by Galileo, Kepler, Newton, Leibniz...invidious to pick one name. I'd take the scientific revolution over the reformation any time because the reformation didn't free anyone from the grip of religious dogmatism, it merely changed who was doing the gripping. ------------- |
Posted By: ulrich von hutten
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 13:57
uups, of course i'm right ,but sorry i didn't read very well ? i forget my glasses... -------------
http://imageshack.us">
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Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 15:27
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Gave me the idea to a new game. Take some random historical events and processes and establish a causal(or other) connection.
Here’s my try. The rise the Seljuk Emipre forced the Byzantine Emperor Alexios Komnenos to ask the Western Europeans powers to come to his assistance. The resulting Crusades weakened the Byzantine Empire (1204 and all that) to that extent that it couldn’t prevent the Rise of the Ottoman Empire, whose beginnings were a direct result of the later destruction of The Seljuk Empire through the The Mongol Conquest. The Conquest of Constantinople in 1453 through the Ottomans, was one of the contributing factors to the emergence of the Renaissance in Italy , and forced the European powers to look for an alternative to the routes to South-Eastern Asia that had previously maintained the contact to India and China, and might have brought the concept of the printing press to Europe that Gutenberg re-invented. This search thus motivated the Voyages of Columbus. Gutenberg's re-invention made the wider distribution of humanist texts in the Renaissance possible. The Establishment of the Ming Dynasty was the reaction of the Chinese people against centuries of Mongol rule after The Mongol conquest. Which was the most important event then? Or is one event not more important than another, as they all are in a causal relationship? Any idea, how to fit the blooming The Hundred Years War in?  ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: Heraclius
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 15:48
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Didnt the French promise aid to Constantinople after the war with England was over? I read that somewhere i'm not sure how true that is, if it is true then its a funny coincidence that the 100 years war ended in the same year that Constantinople fell and had it held out longer perhaps help would of come. So I suppose you could tie the hundred years war in with crusading, by saying help from the west via the crusading expeditions hadnt slowed the decline of the Byzantine empire. Western Christendom had become near powerless to intervene in during the final years of the Byzantine empire and during the siege of 1453 due to the 100 years war between 2 of western europes great powers England and France. EDIT: Also I cant remember which emperor it was, but atleast one visited England to the court of Henry IV and was refused military assistance because he had his own problems with legitimacy and trouble with France. Just more on the wests inability to help and stop the rise of the Ottomans due to wars of their own back home. ------------- A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough. |
Posted By: Constantine XI
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 20:36
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I think Manuel II visited England, and was promised thousands of florins in gold. The money was sent, but promptly embezzled by a Genoese banker and the Byzantines never saw it. ------------- |
Posted By: Hector Victorious
Date Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 23:11
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It was a toss uo for me Bewtween Columbus and the cursades. Thye were both hisstorical in their own way. One opened up a new world. ONe taught us valuble lessons. ------------- |
Posted By: Maju
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 03:41
I think that Iberian colonial enterprises, including not just Colombus' but also Vasco de Gama's travels, were only very indirectly caused by the rise of the Ottoman Empire. In fact they probably were more just a byproduct of local circumstances and Italian Renaissance. Portugal, which is the starter of these explorations was initially most interested in reaching the gold of the Sudan than the extremely far away Eastern Indies. Spices and silk were surely valuable items but intially that wasn't the plan. Italian Renaissance surely helped in transoceanic travels by offering an improved theoretical knowledge of the world to Western Europe. Colombus and Magallaes among others are thought to be Italians themselves. Of course traditional Aragonese presence in the Mediterranean and particularly in Italy was important for this knowldege trasmission. You can also fit here the Hundred Years' war... rather as retardant than anything else: this war kept England and France bussy for long time and probably delayed their incorporation to the colonial advanture, leaving the advantage to the Iberian kingdoms that had already finished their local period of wars long before - Granada and Navarre were just minor exceptions, being surely much more important the war of Castilian succession between Portugal and Aragon. -------------
NO GOD, NO MASTER! |
Posted By: gcle2003
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 07:09
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There's something reminiscent about that Like why the EU accounts have been thrown out by the auditors the past ten years and more.
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Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 07:14
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The Fall of the Byzantine Empire. ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Athanasios
Date Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 17:19
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Well ,the fall of Byzantine(1204 to 1453) empire was the main reason for the Italian Renaissance .Huge amounts of knowledge transferred to Italy by byzantine scholars.Renaissance was the precursor of enlightment .It was also the reason of Colombu's voyages.He wanted to find a new route by sea to India because Ottomans occupied the existed land routes .The profits for western civilization were indirect. ------------- 
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Posted By: Frederick Roger
Date Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 17:24
This is quite true, I expected a bit more knowlage from you, Invictus.
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Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 17:38
verry intresting and all true. so according to our Moderator the Seljuks were at the base of everything this is why I as only person have selecte the seljuks ------------- I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage |
Posted By: Slick
Date Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 17:40
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Invictus said symbolic beginning of colonization, not the actual beginning of it. The voyages of Colombus resulted in massive amounts of European colonization explicitly in the New World, and such. :/
Anyways, I'd vote for either what he said or the Mongol Conquests. The Mongol Conquests were important not because they temporarily brought massive amounts of land under control of the Khan, but because they opened up old trade routes. The opening up of old routes allowed for more trade between Europeans and Asians. In turn this inspired Marco Polo's sea journey to Kublai Khan's court, as sea travel was less expensive than taking a land route (although I heard that there were some European explorers who did, in fact, travel via a land route to distant places in Asia following the Mongol conquests). And Polo's journey in turn helped inspire European colonization and exploration in general, I suppose. ------------- "Dai Ichi Dai Man Dai Kichi" |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 17:58
Very much agree!!
The merith of the Age of Discovery can be found easily in the enterprise of Prince Henry the Navigator, which was the first fellow to systematically explore new regions of the world, classified navigation charts, design new ships specially suited for the task (the nao and caravel) etc.
Spain started its enterprise as a competition against Portugal, and the expeditions of Columbus and Magellian were part of that nautical race, quite similar to the space race between the U.S.S.R. and the U.S.
Pinguin
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Posted By: pekau
Date Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 18:08
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Some events that I might have added are...
- The unification of German Empire.
- Discovery of Nuclear weapons, and the beginning of Cold War
- Britain's Industrial Revolution (Ex. Mass production technique)
- The coming of Jesus Christ, Muhammad, and other religious figures.
- Breakout of World War II
- Creation of Israel
- Alexander's Conquest
- Emerge of Roman Empire
- Barbarian invasion to Roman Empire
- Black Death over Europe
- Spanish Conquest over South, Middle and some of North America.
- Battle in the Plains of Abraham
- Japanese Empire's declaration of war against United States and her allies
- Invention of railways, and telegram
- The Great Scatter of Indo-European civilization in the flooded Black Sea.
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Posted By: pekau
Date Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 18:09
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Forgot these, - Invention of Compass and Gunpowder in China
- Adam Smith's "Wealth of Nation"
- French Revolution
- Conflicts in the Middle East (Modern time) ------------- http://swagbucks.com/refer/Malachi">
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 18:12
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For me, the Discovery of the Americas by Christopher Columbus is the single event that has produced the greatest impact in history of all.
Before Columbus trip, the world was divided in two halves, with about 60% percent of the lands for Afro-Eurasia and 40% for the Americas. In populations the Old World has of around 500 million people while the new world had a population between 15 to 25 millions.
After contact, and even with all the crimens against Native Americans and the explotation of Africans, the wars between colonial powers and all that, the Americas become the Promissed Lands of the world. Since then and up to now, people of all the world want to come to the Americas because there is no other place like it in the whole world.
The Americas have today the most powerful country (U.S.) one of the highest standar of living (Canada), some of the most dinamic new economies (Brazil) and a standard of living well beyond the average of Africa or Asia for all the rest.
Without Columbus comming, most of the people of the New World who are mixtures between peoples of different continents, would have never existed!
So, as an inhabitant of the Americas I have no doubt about it. Columbus is first.
Pinguin
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Posted By: Dream208
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 00:26
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Actually, I will prefer the fall of Song than the rise of Ming as the significant historical event which changed the fate of Far East and balance of world powers.
There are some scholars today believed that the Chinese civilization ends with the Song Dynasty, though I think this statement is abit of an exaggeration.
Of course, we can also put the Fall of Song under the category of the rise of Mongols. But I personally think this event alone marked its significance like the Fall of Constantinople.
The Mongol did not "reopen" the trade between East and West. The Song and perhaps Jin dynasties had made continuous trade with the Middle-East.
The Song dynasty's navy existed to protect the trade route - the Ocean Silk Road, which the Chinese merchants travelled to the South Asia and Persian Gulf or even Constantinople. During the Southern Song dynasty, the export tax income exceeded the land tax income first ime in the history of China.
Thus, the trade between East and West after the fall of Han have never been fully stopped since as late as the founding of Tang. And I doubt Mongol had brought more positive element to the international trade than the Song dynasty. I hope some economic history expert can present insight on this matter.
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Posted By: mamikon
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 00:35
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the black plague
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Posted By: Slick
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 03:22
Slight Problem: Many, if not all, of these events happened way after or before AD 1,000-1,500. :/
By the way, I went against conformity and voted for the Mongol Conquests. The re-opening of trade routes stretching from Asia to Europe had a profound effect on the world, that outmatched even the discoveries of Columbus, in my opinion. Columbus only discovered America; there had been European voyages and colonization in other countries for years. Moreover, the re-opening of trade routes may have increased European curiosity and knowledge of the outside world, and thus indirectly spawned European voyages of exploration and colonization. ------------- "Dai Ichi Dai Man Dai Kichi" |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 06:17
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I was initially going to vote for "Columbus Voyages" as it was clearly one of the most significant events and also affects us all in some way or another today.
However, on second thoughts I read what was wrote about the Seljuks and thought. If the Seljuks were defeated at Malazgirt maybe the Byzantines would have recovered and the Crusade which devasted Constantinople would not have been able to occur. Byzantines could have taken full control of Anatolia again and even start spreading again. The trade route's would still be open to Europe forcing them not to sail half-way round the world. The Byzantines way have even joined the crusades and taken the middle-east.
The possibilities are endless.
Saying this I voted Ottoman before reading any of this and now I can't vote again so my bad.  ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Frederick Roger
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 06:55
The problem with Columbus is that his "accident" had no direct influence in the rise of colonialism. It was something that was bound to happen anyday (unless you still believe the old fairytale of no one knowing there was another continent there). 
Plus, as to it's "symbolic" role, well, pardon me for thinking this was an Historical discussion. If it's al about symbolisms then I elect the burning of the Savoy as the "symbolic" start of the Communist Revolution.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 07:54
Who knew it?
Not even Norses have a clue they were in a different continent at all.
Otherwise, please show your evidence.
As far as I know, between other things, Columbus jump started the Spaniards who surpassed Portugueses in their races to discover new lands. And Portugal never recovered from that.
Yes, it easy to understand why Columbus is not celebrated in Portugal
 .Pinguin
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Posted By: Frederick Roger
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 09:20
Solid evidences do not exist, nor could they. However there are several hints.
Just for you, my friend, I found a nice Wikipedia reference in your language(I double checked it, dates are correct, depite Wikipedia's bad reputation). http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planisferio_de_Cantino - http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planisferio_de_Cantino
This map was in Italy by November 1502, only four months after the first official cartography mission to Brasil came back (featuring Americo Vespucio). Now, it is not impossible that, in just four months, cartographers made a map that was then copied and then shipped to Italy. But it is an extremely tight schedule, wouldn't you agree?
Writer Jean de Néry, in 1558, was in Brazil. In his book he reports talks with the oldest portuguese settlers, some of which state they were born there, after their fathers had travelled to Brasil since it was discovered 80 years ago. Now, I'm no math expert, but 1558-80=1478.
There are severall other letters, writings, chronicles that features even more disrepancies in dates. Feel free to surf the web for it, but have in mind that a lot of it is rubbish.
Your previous comparisson of the Portugal/Spain rivalry to the Space Race between USSR and USA is interesting. Just like USSR sent the first man into space, Spain is believed to have set the first foot on the Americas. But the USA (that is, the Portuguese) were the ones who got to the moon (that is, India) first. And pardon me by being rude, but saying the Spanish surpassed the Portuguese in discovering new lands in just blatant ignorance.
And Columbus is celebrated in Portugal. Why wouldn't he be? He did a good job for us in diverting Spanish attention away from the Indian Ocean. He has streets and schools named after him in Portugal. Heck, we even named one of our Indian capitals after him!
Plus, take I look at this: http://www.colombo.bz/default.htm - http://www.colombo.bz/default.htm
Take it with a bit of salt, some facts are WAY overdeveloped and some connections sound forced. But unlike most things writen previously, this is a serious History project, that like most theories, should not be taken for granted, but accepted as one of many possibilities. |
Posted By: Decebal
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 09:55
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I would generally point to Columbus's voyage. Certainly most of these events are connected in form or another, but we can't say for certain that the alternate course of history (if some of these events would not have happened) would not have led to a roughly similar turn of events in the grand scheme of things. The balance of power in the Eurasian/North African world changed all the time: whether one region or another was dominant is important but not essential. Columbus' voyage is crucial though because it opened up another world, with its economic resources, new food sources and new opportunities. Just compare it with some of the other events: is a Europe with a large and strong Byzantine Empire really all that different from a Europe with a large and strong Ottoman Empire? Is the balance of power in Eurasia after the collapse of the Mongol Empire in the mid 14th century all that different from the balance of power in the early 13th century, before the Mongol invasions? Sure, there are differences, but in the overall scheme of things, it doesn't really matter whether Europe or China is somewhat stronger - there is still a certain balance along the same old lines... The world is different but it's still the same "size". Columbus' voyage however is a sort of paradigm shift: the world itself got bigger.
1. the schism of 1054, without which the 4th crusade and the weakening of Byzantium would not have happened. ------------- What is history but a fable agreed upon? Napoleon Bonaparte Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi 
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Posted By: Slick
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 19:04
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I'd like to think that many events in the Far East, i.e. in China, Japan & Korea, were as important as those European occurences... ------------- "Dai Ichi Dai Man Dai Kichi" |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 19:22
What a nice thread.
Ditto, for this reason there was an impetus to find a new trade route to India, hence the discovery of the Americas. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 22:13
That may be possible. Actually it is known Portugal discoveries were a secret of state, and they started to explore the world a lot earlier than the Spaniards. However, the only thing that I wonder is why Portugal didn't pick for themselves the Americas in the case they knew it?
Well, I don't believe Spain's achievements lacked importance, If compared with Portugal, and knowing Spain came second, it is outstanding Spain surpassed that nation in the number of countries which still keep Spanish culture. In fact, almost all the Americas were conquered and explored by Spain, and, as you know, the largest part of the New World "south of the border" is still in the hands of the countries colonized by Spain. In Asia, Phillipines were also conquered by Spain, no matter Portugal almost monopolized the region.
However, something that's really remarkable about Portugal is that such a small country lead the way. Portugal has only about 1 million people at the times of discovery; about 1/5 of Spain's or England's population! And still in those days it was a very small population if compared with the 200 millions people of China and a similar number in India, for example. However, with only that number of people they went to conquer the world, and they almost did.
Pinguin
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Posted By: pekau
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 22:31
Um... ops.  ------------- http://swagbucks.com/refer/Malachi">
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Posted By: Frederick Roger
Date Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 06:17
You mentioned a very interesting point, that of the secret of state. For such a small resourced country like Portugal it was vital to keep a great control of information. And because of that many information was never disclosed, to the point that Historians will never find out all that really took place. Supposed archeological evidences of portuguese presences are all quite disputable, like the Dighton Rock or the settlements in California. No written prof was ever found, and it might even be possible that it was never even provided and all communiations took place mouth-to-ear. Regarding your question on why didn't the portuguese keep america to themselves, the answer is "they did".
King João II's "Junta de Matemática" (Body of Mathematicians) had already by then set the almost exact measures of the globe as we know them today, and knew of the great distance and "unknown" place between Europe and Asia - something that Columbus disputed, according to traditional historigraphy, claiming those calculation were exagerated and that the Earth was much smaller.
The Spanish crown was itself beggining to invest in the pursuit of both a sea-route to India and access to African gold. That was competition that the portuguese simply could not afford. It is now more-or-less accepted in portuguese historiography the possibility (not the certainty) that Columbus was a tool for the portuguese (wether he knew it or not) to divert spanish attention to some other point of the globe. At that point, portuguese interests were safeguarded both in India and Africa but also in the Americas. Howcome? By the Treaty of Alcaçovas of 1480, which settled that all areas south of Cape Bojador known and to be discovered belonged to the Portuguese. This treaty was negotiated by Prince João, future João II, the same who sent Columbus packing.
Yet João II, cunning has he might have been, could not forsee the future. The land Columbus first touched in the Americas lied in the Portuguese zone of influence. Some say that was the reason why he, on his return, first went t Lisbon to see the King of Portugal instead of going first to the Kings of Spain. Again, no one knows what went on in that meeting.
Another hard blow was the useful odd election of the Aragonese Rodrigo Borja as Pope Alexander VI, presumably paid for by King Fernando of Aragon. Upon notice of the discovery of Columbus, both Fernando and the Pope pushed for the realization of a new treaty with new partition of lands - the more renowed Treaty of Tordesillas, where the demarcation now took place vertically instead of horizontaly. This proposition was immediatly accepted with glee by João II - it kept the Spanish out of Africa and India for good (which, of course, was not the case - you can't trust a spanish to be totaly faithful to a compromize). And yet João II thought it best to have a safeguard and keep an entry into the "new" continentfor himself. So he insisted that the line be drawn farther to the west, as to include... nothing, in the eyes of the Spanish. But in the eyes of João II, it included the land of Brasil. And that was all he needed.
Certainly, Spanish achievements have great importance. No one can take that away from them. Half of South America was bravely explored and conquered by the efforts of Conquistadors, and the marks of that colonization are much clearer that those of the portuguese in Asia, for instance.
The whole point of this conversation is the justice or lack of it of calling the Columbian voyages the greatest symbol of colonization and Imperialism, in the light that, in the end, is role was not so special. And despite this might seem as no more than a nationalistic pledge, I find it unfair that Columbus is considered and the whole process of Portuguese discoveries (the more-than-symbolic beggining of globalization), the only event in that time-span (1000 to 1500 C.E.) to have global porportions, is swiftly brushed aside by many in this thread, starting with its begginer, as having no importance. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 07:11
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Well, as far as I know, the guy that started it all was Henry the Navigator, who is recognized by that fact in Hispanic America, at least.
Columbus is the most famous explorer because he made public the most outstanding discovery for new for the Old World since ancient times, but he was at the ending part of the process and not at the beginning.
Again, it is like in the Space Race. The U.S. put Neil Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin on the Moon and many people forgot about U.S.S.R's Yuri Gagarin, and the mighty effort the Soviet Union made to put the first pioneers on Space. For a long time, we don't even have movies about Gagarin flight at all! and the U.S. media always tried to put Sheppard on top of him. A similar case is Francis Drake that is usually more known in the anglosaxon countries that the earlier Portuguese or Spanish explorers. Lot of times nationalistic tendencies distort history.
If we want to be fair enough, we should include Marco Polo as an early starter of the Age of Discovery, because his accounts on China awoke the desire to go there.
Now, one thing Portuguese missed with the treaty that divided the world in half it was the great American Empires (Incas, Mayans, Aztecs), and it also allowed Spain to colonize Phillipines (the most "Iberian" place in Asia).
Pinguin
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Posted By: Frederick Roger
Date Posted: 31-Jan-2007 at 05:35
I see you're still hanging on to our former regime's nationalist history...
In the case of the Portuguese, not so much, it was moslty other traveller's work, Ibn Batuta. The Portuguese were among the few who knew his work by then.
Yes, that was a loss, those cultures might still be alive and well if we had gotten to them first. Oh well, can't win them all!
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Posted By: gcle2003
Date Posted: 31-Jan-2007 at 05:59
To be fair, I don't think anybody even suggests that Sir Francis Drake was much in the way of an explorer or a colonist.
Mostly he is celebrated for beating up on the Spaniards, whenever he took time off from playing bowls.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 31-Jan-2007 at 23:16
| I voted for Other. It is really hard to choose just one of those, considering for example that the Renaissance, had a prescedent in Al-Andalus, aka Islamic Spain, where science, reason, and medicine flourished, and were transported to the West via visiting scholars who marveled at the application of reason to thought, something the West had been unfamiliar following the decentralization of Western Europe. That happend a few centuries before, but also followed through up to the 1200-1300s. An amalgalm of various events and movements would be my choice. Nevertheless, out of all those I would go either with the Renaissance or the voyages of Colombus, both had immense consequences and impact on the shaping of world history. |
Posted By: Ikki
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2007 at 05:26
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My vote for Mongolian conquest: Destruction of most developed state of the world, Song China, and paralization of that civilization wich was the vanguard. Destruction and paralization of the axis region of the old world, the Middle East. Destruction and severe change of the life of Eastern Europe, specially Russia. Good work mongols ------------- |
Posted By: Constantine XI
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2007 at 06:16
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Columbus' voyage, before there were but kingdoms, and afterwards a globe.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2007 at 07:58
The problem is, not only beat up Spaniards. For us, Chileans, he is not an heroe at all but -please let me say it-, just a rat.
Sir Francis Drake attacked civilians towns in Chile, killed men, rape women, burn houses, robb the belongings of the only church in those towns, and humilliated our people. He is considered just a pirate in here as well.
After Drake, Chile become a militarized colonial post, that stopped most other incursions of pirates into the Pacific. The Spanish Empire also had a network of spies in London that send the alarm when long distance pirate expeditions were prepared to enter the Pacific.
Most Pirates stayed in the Caribbean afterwards.
Pinguin
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Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2007 at 11:15
doesn't Fall of Byzantine Empire = Rise of the Seljuks? ------------- I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2007 at 11:38
Agree!
Columbus marked the beginning of globalization.
Pinguin
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Posted By: gcle2003
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2007 at 12:30
True, but I though it was more because it was closer to places you could sell the spoils, and also there were a lot more islands to hide in. What you say could also have been a factor, though.
PS: How do you feel about Lord Cochrane?
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Posted By: Frederick Roger
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2007 at 13:28
That's it, I quit. You can take the bicycle.
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Posted By: Aster Thrax Eupator
Date Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 11:11
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It's damn near impossible to attempt such a judgement- the events are just so far apart and different that they cannot be compaired. One of the most universal is Gutenberg's printing press, as not only did it influence the widespread distribution of literature, but it also enabled the masses to have access to political material and enabled ultimatley a development of a middle class which would heavily influence later governments and politics. Basically, it enabled widespread education to be implemented into most societies ------------- |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 11:46
Oh... Another strong contender! I think you swayed me to your choice, Ikki! Xi: Seljuqs were already a powerhouse WELL before the fall of Byzantium. It was Ottomans who destroyed Byzantium - you should know this! ------------- |
Posted By: Lmprs
Date Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 17:01
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The Renaissance, without doubt. ------------- |
Posted By: Aster Thrax Eupator
Date Posted: 09-Feb-2007 at 11:22
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Alexander the great's conquests must surely have a place- ultimatley his conquests brought Greek culture, technology and civilization into central asia, as well as introducing eastern culture to Greece. Although most of this progress was created by his sucessor Diodachi states, it's still worth a mention. I don't really think that the rennaissance is a real contender, because, as this goes back to 1000 BC, some of the later developments would not have been possible without the earlier developments. If we want to find a few of the most important events, we'll just have to look at the earlier developments. ------------- |
Posted By: Lepidodendron
Date Posted: 09-Feb-2007 at 12:33
| Maybe I am being somewhat boring, but I don't think you can really appreciate the significance of an historical event without knowing what the alternative course of history would have been if it hadn't happened. Or by what other means could you objectively measure the significance of an historical event? |
Posted By: Maharbbal
Date Posted: 09-Feb-2007 at 12:45
I take it.  Did the Portugese knew before 1492 about the Americas? It is quiet possible. They were fishing cod in the North (Newfoundland), potentialy the 'volta' brought them to nowadays Brazilian and Argentinian shores, and luck may well have brought them to the Carabeans. The question is: did they care about it? No. Because it was not commercially interesting. The Carabeans and Brazil must have been full of weird native totally underdeveloped, so was Canada. And taking them as slaves was not even interesting as the African supplies were more than sufficient. So even if they knew about the new world (which I doubt for S. America) they couldn't care less. Colombus brought two novelties: he was precisely gold thirsty and most likely a bit mad, so getting inland was ok for him and he brought the Spaniards who are agrarian warriors and landlords. On the contrary, the Portugeses were interested by trade 1) per se and 2) as a way to finance new discoveries to finally arrive in India. Just consider the way they "colonized" the Indian ocean. Did they try to invade any land in India or in Africa? No they were just interested in ports of trades and in taxing the trade of the other merchants. On the other hand the Spaniards did invade the lands and ultimately found gold and silver. That said I think the most important event was the Mongol conquests as they've triggered many other very important events: Fall of Songs, definite roll back of the Muslims in Central Asia, enormous consequences in India, broke Eastern Europe and Russia, are involved in the black plague........ The discoverie had a tremendous impact but latter. ------------- I am a free donkey! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09-Feb-2007 at 22:33
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I guess, you are seen too much TV
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Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 10-Feb-2007 at 01:18
I don't coun't one city as an empire. I mean The empire in sence of the eastern roman empire was good as gone. Asia minor was lost. What did they have Constantinople, greece & few Balkan countries. Compared with what it used to be thats a kingdom and not an empire ------------- I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 13-Feb-2007 at 12:20
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Hello everyone!
I agree with The Italian Renaissance and Voyages of Columbus, but what about raising of the Tawantinsuyu (1438)? Isn't it significant? I think that some events from Americas are worth adding to this poll.------------- |
Posted By: Crusader3943
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2007 at 08:44
I voted for the Crusades. Almost all of Christian Europe left to go to the Holy Land in order to regain the sacred places that were now under control of the Turks, who were also threatening to overtake all of Europe.  ------------- Crusader3943 |
Posted By: Crusader3943
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2007 at 08:46
Don't you mean A.D.?  ------------- Crusader3943 |
Posted By: Maharbbal
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2007 at 10:52
For your information, those holding Jerusalem at the time of the first crusade were North African, there was absolutely no threat for Europe from the Fatimides or the Seldjukides, the Crusaders were a few tens of thousands in a population of several millions, the economic, political and social impact of the Crusades in Europe was negligeable and absolutely inexistant for the world outside of the Middle East. If you compare it with say the black death, the Mongol invasions, the discovery of America and the rounding of the Cape or the invention of powder, the Crusades appear totally drawfed. A famous French historian said that the Crusades brought nothing to Europe but the Abricot. Which is not even true as it had been around for longer… ------------- I am a free donkey! |
Posted By: Crusader3943
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2007 at 20:28
Actually, the first Crusade was launched because the emperor of Constantinople requested aid from Europe, as the Turks had come right up to his doorstep. Oh, and I think that they were Seljuk Turks. ------------- Crusader3943 |
Posted By: Kaysaar
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2007 at 19:00
| I think the Battle of Hastings deserves at least a mention, seeing as it completely changed the course of English history, causing it to be much more continentally oriented than before. |
Posted By: YusakuJon3
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2007 at 20:03
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From my POV, it is almost certainly the voyages of Columbus, without which the European culture would've remained hemmed in on one corner of the world by hostile Muslims and the vast expanse of Russia to its south and east and perilous oceans to its north and west. Losing the opportunity to enrich itself with the opportunity provided with global navigation, the Europeans would've probably stagnated in much the same way that the Chinese did after their decision not to do the same, even if they were able to flank the Moroccan caliphs and take much of coastal Africa.
------------- "There you go again!" -- President Ronald W. Reagan (directed towards reporters at a White House press conference, mid-1980s) |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 28-Mar-2007 at 11:25
The battle of Hastings is used by many to mark the beginning of modern European civilization. I think it deserves more than a mear mention. ------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Decebal
Date Posted: 28-Mar-2007 at 11:35
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I'm not so sure about qualifying the battle of Hastings as the beginning of modern European civilization. That's a fairly Anglo-centric view. Could not Saxon England have developed into a strong mercantile state, the way Norman England did? In my opinion, picking this battle as a turning point is arbitrarily setting a date and a specific place for a process which took centuries to occur throughout the whole of Europe. Besides, the modern foundations of Europe were laid in Italy, and were also due to developments in Spain, Sicily and the Eastern Empire. England was still peripheral at this stage. ------------- What is history but a fable agreed upon? Napoleon Bonaparte Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi
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Posted By: T. Ape
Date Posted: 28-Mar-2007 at 16:04
I am going with the Rise of the Ottoman Empire. I wrote a post in http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18590&PN=1 - another thread where I stated the fall of Constantinople as one of the most important events in history. The reasons I gave there are pretty much the same I give here. Just make the scope a little larger.
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Posted By: NeuralDream
Date Posted: 29-Mar-2007 at 05:46
| Quite clearly Gutenberg’s Printing Press. All the rest are important for limited number of today's people and their choice is to an extent indicative of the area they live. |
Posted By: Penelope
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2007 at 02:03
Thats not true at all. During that period, Constantinople still ruled over many different ethnicities which constitutes an empire. An empire and a kingdom are two completely different things.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2007 at 22:36
Guttenberg did not invent printing, but the Chinese
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Posted By: T. Ape
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2007 at 23:20
| Ah, but it was Gutenburg's press that spread to the world. It is not about who did it first, it is about who made the largest impact on history. |
Posted By: Penelope
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2007 at 00:41
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Not saying it was the "most significant", but just one of the "mosts".
But i would just like to say that The Mongol Nation, created by Temüjin was an empire with many amazing accomplishments that the world will never forget. During the reign of the Mongol Nation they established religious freedom, abolished slavery, created a free trade economy, created a code of laws, all men were held equal under law including the Khan, united China, created the borders of all mainland Asian countries, and regions, including regions in Russia, all of which exist to this day, and created a time of peace, prosperity, and knowledge that had been unheard of for centuries.
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Posted By: Knights
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2007 at 00:49
I agree, the Pax Mongolica was very influential and in a way, revolutionary. The peace and prosperity that arose from it was astounding. Genghis set up a vast trade network and united a lot of Mongolia, China and Central Asia. It provided social, cultural and economic advances, plus improved communication. Truly a monumental, significant event from 1000-1500AD, though not the most, which is up to your own opinion.  
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Posted By: SuryaVajra
Date Posted: 13-Jun-2013 at 10:55
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Really people? You cant think of anything outside these wars ? Wouldn't civilization have carried on much better if all these war mongers just dropped dead? Because I can tell you without an iota of doubt that the most important event in these 500 years was the invention of Calculus by Madhavacharya and his disciples. Not much of the technological refinement we enjoy today would have come about without Calculus. Newton, Maxwell, Einstein and Schrodinger etc etc wouldn't have derived any of their theorems without this precious calculus that reached Europe in the 16th century. |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 13-Jun-2013 at 11:19
------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: SuryaVajra
Date Posted: 13-Jun-2013 at 13:39
I'll cut to the core Alani The so called Greek miracles you allude to ,allegedly performed by the legendary Greeks like Euclid and Archimedes do not seem to stand the test of verification. The Greeks did not have the decimal system or the place value system . Without these , you cannot solve serious fractions . Infact the Greek numerals was even less sophisticated than the Roman numerals. Its horribly tedious to solve even a simple 367 x 24 with the Roman numerals. How then the Greek numerals. The Greeks, by common sense, wouldn't even say the correct length of the year (365.256363004) Dont believe me? Try to think of how the Greeks would represent a fraction like 0.000030009. You need the place value system for that. Or how they solved a simple 0.0003/35 .They wouldn't even think of such a thing Today any child can multiply the denominator and numerator by equivalent tens. All you need is the Vedic decimal system. And its not their fault. The alphabetical numerals completely besieged their capabilities . And you honestly believe Archimedes had a method of Exhaustion . Have you ever thought how thats possible with just alphabet like numbers ? Calculus is much about infinite series. It cannnot be conceived without atleast the decimal system(Madhava further invented a floating point system ,today used by computers ). The decimal system was understood and accepted in Europe only in the 17th century before which the Vatican held that the Indian numerals were demoniacal. Conclusion. 1. Greeks simply did not have the numerals for advanced Algebra, Trigonometry and Arithmetic. 2. No original manuscript or atleast their reliable copies or an oral tradition exists for any of the alleged Greek supermen(Pythagoras, Archimedes, Euclid etc) 3. No contemporaneous literature exists explicating or citing the work of these said personages. 4. Much of what the world believes about Greek Mathematics is a result of Eurocentric history writing that has been taking place since 1500s. Still not convinced? I have a stronger treatment of this if you wish.... Just see what historical text you can find to substantiate your statement. |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 13-Jun-2013 at 14:31
------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: SuryaVajra
Date Posted: 13-Jun-2013 at 14:47
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I am sorry for that..... I believe I was directing that tone at the General opinion. I did not in the least harbour views that you appealed to undue authority , not in the least. Nevertheless, when it is claimed that Archimedes had the precursors of Calculus, it remains to be seen how exactly he obtained it. No text of his exists, not even enough to back up his historicity. It also remains how he manages the feat without a decimal system. You see, the results attributed to Bharata Mathematicians do not have original manuscripts either( not so for Madhava, unlike the ancient and pre medieval ones). The Palm leaves rot pretty fact. But the difference is that there was maintained a continuous series of copies and a scrupulous oral tradition permitting not the loss of even a single word as regards most of the texts.We have texts that survive in whole . I expected you to field the supposedly 12 th century Archimedes Palimpsest. But you seem much too learned for that. Once again my friend, I did not ever fancy that you believed in supermen. Regards. |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 13-Jun-2013 at 16:31
I can't decided  Renaissance or Columbus. Columbus or Renaissance Renaissance is not an event. It is something conceptually but discovering is not, so my vote goes to Columbus |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 14-Jun-2013 at 15:46
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Columbus' discovery led to a very dramatic change in the history of the entire Americas, both North and South. The cultural chance was also very rapid since it was the first time that such a massive change and displacement of a continent's local people had ever occurred. I know that the Mayas and Aztecs didn't really go anywhere but one can hardly draw any resemblance between Modern-day Mexicans and their ancestors. ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 18-Jun-2013 at 14:59
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Ummm, I have worked with many folks from Mexico. There is an entire family, the Varga's, all look like they popped off a Mayan Stele. You have to go farther than Mexico City to find others like them, but there are many. It's the Nose.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Auggie
Date Posted: 24-Jun-2013 at 11:49
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In terms of historical significance for the West, I'd have to rate the Renaissance as being the most important period of all. To think that from the fall of Rome in the 5th century to the rise of Petrarch and the humanists in the 14th, just about an entire millenium, Europe was for all practical purposes in a continent-wide state of barbarity, chaos and an utter disregard for art and scholarship is just totally mind-blowing. The West inherited the legacies of ancient Greece and Rome and... look what happened: barbarians of all stripes came to rape, pillage, ravage and rule. Thank God, is all I can say, for people such as Petrarch and Boccaccio, Michelangelo and Raphael, the Medicis and yes, the much-maligned Borgias and Niccolo "Mack the Knife" Machiavelli. Without them, who knows if we ever would've put the lid on the Dark Ages... ------------- Where it is a duty to worship the sun it is sure to be a crime to examine the laws of heat. - Voltaire |
Posted By: yomud
Date Posted: 24-Jun-2013 at 16:41
are u serious  The Seljuk Empire get only 2 Votes seljuks made greatest islamic empire in thier time islamic Civilizations was at it's peak do u know how many univarsitys they build do u know what wealth this brings to middle east ??? do you know the greatest islamic scholar was live and work at seljuks universities do u know alcohol discover in that era do u know so many books about politic medicine meth physician, alchemist and chemist, philosopher ..... written in that era which is a basic knowleg of todays universities with out seljuks we wont see this events The Italian Renaissance Rise of the Ottoman Empire The Crusades i put some wiki page so u could know better the seljuks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Khaldun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fakhr_al-Din_Razi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Zakariya_al-Razi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizam_al-Mulk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasir_al-Din_al-Tusi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar_al-Khayyam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Farabi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Biruni seljuk era was greater than The Italian Renaissance ill give my Poll Choice to them in iran in every provence u could see so many seljuk buildings they was great people ------------- yomud are free people |
Posted By: RedCape
Date Posted: 20-Nov-2013 at 08:17
| I voted for Columbus's Voyage but I feel the Mongolian Invasions are just as significant too. |
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 14-Jan-2014 at 17:48
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Yes, I have also seen the same! It is sometimes disconcerting to actually see them!
This is in response to an old post by RedClay, concerning Mayan profiles. Ron ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |