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Melting Pot VS Cultural Mosaic

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Scholarly Pursuits
Forum Name: Social Sciences
Forum Discription: Discuss Sociology, Law, Economics, Psychology and other soft sciences.
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35077
Printed Date: 06-Dec-2022 at 21:24
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Topic: Melting Pot VS Cultural Mosaic
Posted By: Ollios
Subject: Melting Pot VS Cultural Mosaic
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2014 at 10:28
Actually issue is minorities

After French Revolution, not just idea of freedom spreaded also nationalism found a way for spreading. But now I guess, Multiculturism become popular and legal and illegal immigrant is rising so 

How we provide the blance?

Is melting pot some kind of assimilation which is crime against humanity ?

or

Is multi-culturalism a failed way?

I think these photoes are very good to summarize the topic. Both are about USA  but right is multiculturaism way, left is melting pot way.

http://fe867b.medialib.glogster.com/megbar/media/3f/3f19e5c6168f23d2e7201a3389435a2693d91195/america-melting-pot-flags-extended.jpghttp://andreeavasile.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/usstates.jpg





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Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır



Replies:
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2014 at 23:59
There is no real difference between melting pot and multiculturalism.

Where are you coming from with these three questions, "How we provide the balance?", "Is melting pot some kind of assimilation which is crime against humanity ?", and "Is multi-culturalism a failed way?", Ollios? Generally, Ollios, these are in the divisive language style associated with the nastier side of far-right politics, used to highlight differences in order to poison the mind, instead of the common ground we all share.  


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What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 05-Nov-2014 at 06:26
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

There is no real difference between melting pot and multiculturalism.


???

Interenet is full with their difference.

so can you be more clear?

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Where are you coming from with these three questions, "How we provide the balance?", "Is melting pot some kind of assimilation which is crime against humanity ?", and "Is multi-culturalism a failed way?", Ollios? Generally, Ollios, these are in the divisive language style associated with the nastier side of far-right politics, used to highlight differences in order to poison the mind, instead of the common ground we all share.  


I don't see a problem with balance? What is the problem with them?

but about other questions,

The reason of using strong language like that is to show the difference between them. (I believe they are different)

Actually first one is belongs to far-left and second is far-right.

One of the famous melting pot idiom
http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhistorymatters.gmu.edu%2Fd%2F5762%2F&ei=xQdaVOipBIGzuATXoYGABw&usg=AFQjCNHbWvCqSJuiFPa8ye31lSX5HZ7e_A&bvm=bv.78677474,d.c2E - "One Country! One Language! One Flag!"
but this sounds a little bit assimilation. (also this is left perspective)

Multi-Culturalism is also criticized by nationalistic people and far-right
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PE16KlMF6Zc/TU-rsxikiCI/AAAAAAAAAH4/iyXAveIDdMs/s1600/Multiculti_cartoon.gif





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Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 06-Nov-2014 at 22:11

Originally posted by Ollios

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

There is no real difference between melting pot and multiculturalism.


???

Interenet is full with their difference.

so can you be more clear?
Maybe better, Ollios, if go ahead and explain your take on the differences you see, as it was your OP, and then we can look to see if they hold any water. Hopefully things will be made clear for you then.


Originally posted by Ollios

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

Where are you coming from with these three questions, "How we provide the balance?", "Is melting pot some kind of assimilation which is crime against humanity ?", and "Is multi-culturalism a failed way?", Ollios? Generally, Ollios, these are in the divisive language style associated with the nastier side of far-right politics, used to highlight differences in order to poison the mind, instead of the common ground we all share.  



I don't see a problem with balance? What is the problem with them?

but about other questions,

The reason of using strong language like that is to show the difference between them. (I believe they are different)

Actually first one is belongs to far-left and second is far-right.

One of the famous melting pot idiom
http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhistorymatters.gmu.edu%2Fd%2F5762%2F&ei=xQdaVOipBIGzuATXoYGABw&usg=AFQjCNHbWvCqSJuiFPa8ye31lSX5HZ7e_A&bvm=bv.78677474,d.c2E -
but this sounds a little bit assimilation. (also this is left perspective)

Multi-Culturalism is also 
criticized by nationalistic people and far-right.

To “provide the balance” is often the kind of emotive language the far-right uses to force open an agenda of discrimination by placing a wedge between groups of people by suggesting culpability on those not originally from that area.

Do you imagine people to be too stupid to register cultural differences when they are offered, Ollios? What other differences do you imagine need to be pointed out with the negative emotive language you reference as strong language that would be beneficial across the board?

The second question instigated without a legitimate prompt is the rhetoric of right wing nationalism, although I can see where you’re coming from with your belief that it’s left wing, when used to answer allegations of a lack of commitment to integrate into communities.

The http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhistorymatters.gmu.edu%2Fd%2F5762%2F&ei=xQdaVOipBIGzuATXoYGABw&usg=AFQjCNHbWvCqSJuiFPa8ye31lSX5HZ7e_A&bvm=bv.78677474,d.c2E - link doesn’t actually show the origin of the term, or the name of the person who first used it. Not exactly sure you could class it as left wing either.



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What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 07-Nov-2014 at 05:09
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


To “provide the balance” is often the kind of emotive language the far-right uses to force open an agenda of discrimination by placing a wedge between groups of people by suggesting culpability on those not originally from that area.


I think there is cultural lack between us. Wink

For me it sounds like it is coming from a kind of pacifist Far East religion.

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Do you imagine people to be too stupid to register cultural differences when they are offered, Ollios? What other differences do you imagine need to be pointed out with the negative emotive language you reference as strong language that would be beneficial across the board?

 

When you comparing two things, if you use strong languages for one them. This means supporting one side, but using for the both of them, I don't see any problem.

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Do you imagine people to be too stupid...


Is this your writing style, for you just want to show me negative emotive language? Wink


Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

The second question instigated without a legitimate prompt is the rhetoric of right wing nationalism, although I can see where you’re coming from with your belief that it’s left wing, when used to answer allegations of a lack of commitment to integrate into communities.

Actually, I hate using political terms to define myself, so I won't confirm your statement about my belief.

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


The http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhistorymatters.gmu.edu%2Fd%2F5762%2F&ei=xQdaVOipBIGzuATXoYGABw&usg=AFQjCNHbWvCqSJuiFPa8ye31lSX5HZ7e_A&bvm=bv.78677474,d.c2E - link doesn’t actually show the origin of the term, or the name of the person who first used it. Not exactly sure you could class it as left wing either.



Actually, this not a link, soory for that, I had heard it, but I wasn't sure so I searched on net and just copied

I am suprised, you are asking the origion of the term.
.http://www.so-calleddollars.com/images/HK908_obvJD.jpg

You can be sure because, left thinks that it is assimilation and wrong, not coming from left

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This is a good historical image about melting pot

http://chnm.gmu.edu/exploring/images/stir.jpg








-------------
Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 08-Nov-2014 at 10:34

Originally posted by Ollios

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


To “provide the balance” is often the kind of emotive language the far-right uses to force open an agenda of discrimination by placing a wedge between groups of people by suggesting culpability on those not originally from that area.

 

I think there is cultural lack between us. 

What brought you to that conclusion, Ollios?  


Originally posted by Ollios

For me it sounds like it is coming from a kind of pacifist Far East religion.

Then as there must have been a reason that you chose the three questions in the OP, I look forward to your knowledge of the pacifist Far East religion’s take on the subject of your thread. 

Originally posted by Ollios

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising



Do you imagine people to be too stupid to register cultural differences when they are offered, Ollios? What other differences do you imagine need to be pointed out with the negative emotive language you reference as strong language that would be beneficial across the board?

 

When you comparing two things, if you use strong languages for one them. This means supporting one side, but using for the both of them, I don't see any problem. 

What I’m saying is, if cultural differences are visible, are they not already self-evident.  



Originally posted by Ollios

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising



The  http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhistorymatters.gmu.edu%2Fd%2F5762%2F&ei=xQdaVOipBIGzuATXoYGABw&usg=AFQjCNHbWvCqSJuiFPa8ye31lSX5HZ7e_A&bvm=bv.78677474,d.c2E - "One Country! One Language! One Flag!"  link doesn’t actually show the origin of the term, or the name of the person who first used it. Not exactly sure you could class it as left wing either.



Actually, this not a link, soory for that, I had heard it, but I wasn't sure so I searched on net and just copied

I am suprised, you are asking the origion of the term. I didn’t actually ask the origin of the term, Ollios, I simply questioned the authenticity of the link I clicked on on your comment. The origin is from a precursor to the American pledge of allegiance, created by a General George Thacher Balch, in order to help the children of immigrants integrate with those around them, and gain a sense of patriotism.  

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This is a good historical image about melting pot










What can I say, political satire in the style of the day.



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What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 08-Nov-2014 at 12:10
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


What brought you to that conclusion, Ollios? 


I couldn't understand the connection with balance and far-right. If we divide the all words as good and bad, balance would be in good side, for me.

but, it could be used by far right groups in USA.

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


What I’m saying is, if cultural differences are visible, are they not already self-evident.

I agree, cultural difference can't be stop. But, don't you think there is a problem?




-------------
Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır


Posted By: Mountain Man
Date Posted: 08-Nov-2014 at 13:58
And where is the line between "multi-culturalism" and Balkanization?

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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?


Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 08-Nov-2014 at 23:58
Originally posted by Mountain Man

And where is the line between "multi-culturalism" and Balkanization?


I don't support any idea, but I want to find a way, so your question is excellent.

Can Multi-Culturalism enough for union of the country?

Every country needs some thing to support own unification.

But Melting Pot? Should all minorites and immigrant/refugees forget their own languages?

For example, native languages what we do about in this issue?

Doesn't American Spanish speaking population grow? What will happen after Spanish speaking population be more then English speakers?

I have read a news about Greece. Goverment have said that Turks can't open a nursery school, the idea about this is a Turkish boy who goes there, can't
adapted the primary school.

and I also have joined a conference about Armenians in Turkey, and Armenians complain about same issue.

so for me, there can be this type of minority nurseries but their one of the first priority, should be give two languages to children and help them to not face cultural shocks when they are in majority.





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Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır


Posted By: pudu
Date Posted: 09-Nov-2014 at 05:39
Multiculturalism is unstable. Sooner or later will fail, and will be replaced by oppressive regimes that will look for uniformity. Remember Al-Andalus.


Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 09-Nov-2014 at 06:35
Originally posted by pudu

Multiculturalism is unstable. Sooner or later will fail, and will be replaced by oppressive regimes that will look for uniformity.


I agree.


 
Originally posted by pudu

Remember Al-Andalus.


Can you open it?

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Also old Melting Pot Countries are changing. No one can say that now, great melting pot example USA is still same. It is more tolerated now, at least I am seeing like that from here.

Similarly, Atatürk's Turkey was also great example of melting pot and it was succesfull on Albanians, Bosnians, Caucausian Muslims, Tatars, Lazs, Muslim Georgians, but it failed with Kurds

so now my country is also turning to multi-culturalism.

and with increasing globalization, no one also stay in stick melting pot position.



-------------
Ellerin Kabe'si var,
Benim Kabem İnsandır



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