Print Page | Close Window

Pyrrhus of Epirus

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: Rate Kings and Emperors
Forum Discription: Talk about the kings and emperors and rate them!
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32213
Printed Date: 10-Aug-2022 at 00:30
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Pyrrhus of Epirus
Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Subject: Pyrrhus of Epirus
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 00:14
What is anyone's opinion on this man as a military leader and king?



Replies:
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 00:20
Who was He?!?SmileWhich did language speak?Do we have some original document from those days?What does His name means?There is a province in Albania named with His name-Epir-us...


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 00:32
Pyrrhus or Pyrrhos (Greek: Πύρρος, Pyrros; 319/318 BC–272 BC) was a Greek[1][2]general and statesman of the Hellenistic era.[3][4] He was king of the Greek tribe of Molossians,[3][5] of the royal Aeacid house[6] (from circa 297 BC), and later he became king of Epirus (r. 306–302, 297–272 BC) and Macedon (r. 288–284, 273–272 BC). He was one of the strongest opponents of early Rome. Some of his battles, though successful, cost him heavy losses, from which the term "Pyrrhic victory" was coined. He is the subject of one of Plutarch's Parallel Lives (Greek: Βίοι Παράλληλοι).

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhus_of_Epirus#_ - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhus_of_Epirus#_

-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 14:49
I love the man! He had guts, and knew the cost of independence; knew how to take risks, and how to pay for them. Great man, and as most great men, lost in the long run in this so unclean world - but he won my great respects.
Lamentably, with all my library in the US, I cannot support myself with nothing but net sources; probably I can find Plutarch online, I will try.


-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 14:50
Btw, Delenda, when you post links, to make them alive, click on the little globe with a bow and post the link inside; in this way it will become clickable.

-------------


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 14:55
I just finished a bio on him by Champion. A very interesting man and very good tactically. Stratagetically he was.... not so hot. He was also way to heavy handed with his allies.

-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 15:28
Well, no one is perfect...
I'm looking forward for your future article on the bioSmile /you can't refuse to such whinning nowDead, can you?/


-------------


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 15:32
If you insist but I start classes tomorrow :/.

-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 16:08
Whan you can, Delenda, no pressure. Are you doing history?

-------------


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 16:11
Yes I am. Keep in mind I'm a junior in HS. So I will most likely be bored. Though last year I did take a college course in sociology and passed. I'll try to get around to it but I have lots of reading to do :).

-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 16:19
OK, so you are getting college classes whin in H? Very good, in 2 of the schools in WA where I subbed there was this program "Running Star"and they proposed classes for ambitious kids who want to geat ahead in time and save some money when getting in college with some classes already passed.
Are you starting HS from tomorrow, isn't it a little early? Whats state are you in, if it;s not a secret?


-------------


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 16:23
Its no secret I live in Kansas.

-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 17:24
I see. The wind blew up the school year couple of weeks earlier thenLOL

-------------


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 17:26
:p. nah its the same as always and throughout most of Kansas. But if you really do like Pyrrhus than Pyrrhus of Epirus by Jeff Champion is your book.

-------------


Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 19:31
Was this the same Pyrrhus who was killed by a woman throwing a roof tile? His were the first "Pyrric victories" won at terrible cost

-------------
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 19:34
No he wasn't killed by the brick. He was killed in street fighting and supposedly knocked out by a brick then beheaded by a soldier. Yes. The man defeated the Roman legions, Carthages armies, seized much of Macedonia, he was very good tactically no question about it.

-------------


Posted By: d' artagnan
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 21:14
Why do you say he wasn't good strategically. I've never seen anything to show him as anything other then a clever general and a excellent soldier.

-------------
Hunter Johns

"We're surrounded? Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction."
— Col. Chesty Puller | Korean War


Posted By: d' artagnan
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 21:15
Oh, by the way being a HS student on here is fun but sucks because you always end up feeling like a idiot.

Then again you might be a lot smarter then me its not very hard.


-------------
Hunter Johns

"We're surrounded? Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction."
— Col. Chesty Puller | Korean War


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 21:21
Originally posted by d' artagnan

Oh, by the way being a HS student on here is fun but sucks because you always end up feeling like a idiot.

Then again you might be a lot smarter then me its not very hard.

I've never felt like an idiot in my spheres of interest for a long whilr. Over 20 books on a single subject gives perspective ;).

-------------


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 21:23
Originally posted by d' artagnan

Why do you say he wasn't good strategically. I've never seen anything to show him as anything other then a clever general and a excellent soldier.


His decision to leave Italy and fight in Sicily, leave Lilybaeum unconquered, abandon Sicily, treat his allies badly, several occasions in Macedonia he made bad stratagetic and political mistakes.

-------------


Posted By: d' artagnan
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 21:33
So yes definitely smarter then me because I feel like a idiot all the time on here.

In point though didn't he leave italy to fight in Sicily because he knew he couldn't possibly win in Italy but thought that by a victory in Sicily would increase the size of his kingdom.

-------------
Hunter Johns

"We're surrounded? Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction."
— Col. Chesty Puller | Korean War


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 21:52
He basically got bored in Italy and switched to Sicily got bored during siege operations and switched to Italy. A restless adventurer.

-------------


Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 21:54
Originally posted by d'artagnan

Oh, by the way being a HS student on here is fun but sucks because you always end up feeling like a idiot.

Then again you might be a lot smarter then me its not very hard.
 
 
 
Fear Not. I have sat on oral examination boards for candidates for the Master's Degree...whom often would have been put to shame by your average HS student. Consequently when and or if you feel that...remember we all have been there.Wink
 
As for Pyrrhus...a very able, borderline good tactician...poor strategist in certain diplomatic senses and tho affable at times was inconsistent in maintaining his focus on any necessary given objective to see it culminate in an overwhelming strategic advantage. I have not read Champion's work but I base my thoughts on Abbot.
 
And that's about 35 years ago.


-------------
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'



Posted By: d' artagnan
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 21:58
Thanks for the support Centrix. Love the Churchill quote by the way.

He basically got bored in Italy and switched to Sicily got bored during siege operations and switched to Italy. A restless adventurer.

Is bored really the beast way to put it I mean he was a king in charge of mercenaries who need to be paid. You can't exactly stand to be bogged down in siege works can.

-------------
Hunter Johns

"We're surrounded? Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction."
— Col. Chesty Puller | Korean War


Posted By: d' artagnan
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 21:59
he. As for being restless aren't we all.

-------------
Hunter Johns

"We're surrounded? Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction."
— Col. Chesty Puller | Korean War


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 21:59
Abbot doesn't exactly have the best books more for the general reader. Though I do have an 1854 printing of his Hannibal bio :).

-------------


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 22:01
Originally posted by d' artagnan

Thanks for the support Centrix. Love the Churchill quote by the way.

He basically got bored in Italy and switched to Sicily got bored during siege operations and switched to Italy. A restless adventurer.

Is bored really the beast way to put it I mean he was a king in charge of mercenaries who need to be paid. You can't exactly stand to be bogged down in siege works can.

He literally got bored. Lilybaeum was the last Punic stronghold not taking it wasn't a smart move.

-------------


Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 22:03
He's complex in his style perhaps and a little dry for the reader of today; but his accuracy in the era for which he wrote is still credible enough...He was a major influence on many who have followed. And hang on to that copy.

-------------
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'



Posted By: d' artagnan
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 22:07
True.

-------------
Hunter Johns

"We're surrounded? Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction."
— Col. Chesty Puller | Korean War


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 22:10
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis



He's complex in his style perhaps and a little dry for the reader of today; but his accuracy in the era for which he wrote is still credible enough...He was a major influence on many who have followed. And hang on to that copy.

Its very old and quite well illustrated. Yet it has numerous errors. Most modern historians have far better work. Abbot leaves out and is mistaken in many of his points yet overall not a bad read.

-------------


Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 22:35
''Most modern historians have far better work.''
''but his accuracy in the era for which he wrote is still credible enough...''
 
Context and era..... always remember... is not merely reference the subject matter but includes those and especially those who write about it contemporaneously or .......later.
 
iow. You can not necessarily objectively judge Abbott in his entirety; when and if additional resources that were not available in his time become so later. Or because one dislikes his premise from the perspective of a much later time period because it does not concur with that which has been developed and being used or expressed now. Or the influence of multidisciplinary studies impacts (which is a rather recent phenom) on later writers.
 
You judge him against the contemporary of his day, in his veracity and use of the method (as it was understood and practiced in his day) versus theirs....first. And then from the perspective of comparison and contrast you have a firmer foundation to judge him against writers and scholars decades later.Wink
 
 


-------------
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'



Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 22:47
I do judge against his contemporaries namely Theodore Ayrault Dodge. He has written one of the biggest and best biographies on Hannibal. He witnessed the Civil War as a soldier and wrote a very very good series of bio.

-------------


Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 23:11
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

I do judge against his contemporaries namely Theodore Ayrault Dodge. He has written one of the biggest and best biographies on Hannibal. He witnessed the Civil War as a soldier and wrote a very very good series of bio.
 
Then you have learned early a valuable lesson.Clap Remember to adhere to it and defend it when you see others that do not and or attempt revisionism.
 
And yet I must chide you a bit..Wink because Dodge, as you note, a superb military historian, of his era, and well know for his varying military figure bios during the contemporary era in which Abbot wrote....Is ntl, not exactly a contemporary of Abbot in that respect.
 
Review their bios. Dodge was a historian and professional soldier. Abbot an educator and preacher and in the main writer of juvenile fiction with occasional forays in historical bios etc.....Consequently what was his target audience versus Dodge's. What superior or inferior qualifications or intent was behind their respective efforts. You quite correctly point out for example that Abbot is considered a generalist...even so Dodge the specific.
 
This does not detract however from one not being a specific in being able to write about any particular topic and with credibility...done all the time. Such was Abbot. If you wish to compare and contrast Abbot vs. Dodge...perfectly acceptable and quite right....but when doing so remember my advice above.
 
 
Then long after I'm dead and gone...you can continue to instill in them what I am want to do here on occasion. Whether you accept it as viable remains your choice.LOL


-------------
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'



Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2012 at 23:29
I judg them by their work. If someone around the same time wrote better he gets the kudos.

-------------


Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 08:04
Originally posted by d' artagnan

Oh, by the way being a HS student on here is fun but sucks because you always end up feeling like a idiot.

Then again you might be a lot smarter then me its not very hard.

No one should be feeling here like an idiot, and age means nothing when it comes to knowledge an interests. Opinions are just opinions, and one's opinion shouldn't be source of shagrin if its not shared by others - everyone has the right to have his/her own opinions, and the subject of the opinion is by no means result of lack of knowledge on the matter - on the opposite in many cases it;s a matter of differently chosen values of the one who has the opinion.

My botton line is that we are here to share knowledge and opinions, not to make others feel  like idiots. If you felt like that you can turn to a mod, so to be seen if you sustained some kind of willingly applied insult.


-------------


Posted By: d' artagnan
Date Posted: 15-Aug-2012 at 18:52
I think my problem is I'm slightly narcissistic so any time I don't think I'm as smart or smarter then them I fell like an idiot. Thats a personal problem though so best to ignore it.

-------------
Hunter Johns

"We're surrounded? Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction."
— Col. Chesty Puller | Korean War


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 08:12
How could anyone possibly shower praise onto this poor excuse of a ruler, who time after time squanders what he has been given on a plate, and like his father, finds it so easy to get up the noses of those he is meant to be ruling. He was a spoilt rich kid, who carried on being spoiled by those giving him shelter. Any victories gained by him had very little to do with much military prowess, but the huge amount of assistance given by other kingdoms. He was a ruler by name alone, and not by any great ability. I found it to be a very fitting ending of such a man, being hit on the head by a tile thrown by an old woman, and then beheaded, although my guess is it might be a metaphor on his abilities and the way of his demise. 

-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 12:00
Actually he was quite brilliant tactically and very brave personally.

-------------


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 12:25
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Actually he was quite brilliant tactically and very brave personally.

Which tactics, Delenda est Roma, have you knowledge of that mark him out of the ordinary? Personally, because of his privileged background and being heavily backed up by other forces, I see such bravery like that of the bully, only there when his pals are around home. What personal feats of bravery are you aware of which would question that analogy?


-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 12:51
Unable to make any significant gains in action, Pyrrhus deployed his elephants, held in reserve until now. The Roman cavalry was threatening his flank too strongly. Aghast at the sight of these strange and brooding creatures which none had seen before, the horses galloped away and threw the Roman legion into rout. Pyrrhus then launched his Thessalian cavalry among the disorganized legions, which completed the Romans' defeat. The Romans fell back across the river and Pyrrhus held the field.
This was one of his brilliant tactical moves and use of a reserve.

His force began to waver, and the Romans gave a thunderous cheer at the turn of events. Grasping the magnitude of the situation, Pyrrhus rode forward, bare-headed, along the lines of his men to show he was still living. This show of bravery strengthened their resolve, and the battle raged on

This is an example of his bravery. He usually fought in the front helping his men fight,


%20 - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Heraclea#section_3

-------------


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 15:27
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Unable to make any significant gains in action, Pyrrhus deployed his elephants, held in reserve until now. The Roman cavalry was threatening his flank too strongly. Aghast at the sight of these strange and brooding creatures which none had seen before, the horses galloped away and threw the Roman legion into rout. Pyrrhus then launched his Thessalian cavalry among the disorganized legions, which completed the Romans' defeat. The Romans fell back across the river and Pyrrhus held the field.
This was one of his brilliant tactical moves and use of a reserve.

His force began to waver, and the Romans gave a thunderous cheer at the turn of events. Grasping the magnitude of the situation, Pyrrhus rode forward, bare-headed, along the lines of his men to show he was still living. This show of bravery strengthened their resolve, and the battle raged on

This is an example of his bravery. He usually fought in the front helping his men fight,


%20 - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Heraclea#section_3
Like I've already said, and something easily worked out from his wiki page' Pyrrhus was out matched, but even he in the middle of his own ineptitude was unable to extend his own debacle due to the type of aid he had received in the shape of the war elephants. I mean, war elephants in reserve, why on earth would you do it?
As for the removing of his helmet and parading himself, it has nothing to do with bravery at all, it's called self preservation. Had he not, the massacre of his own men when they tried to turn and flee would probably have had him within the numbers of the dead. It's not that unusual for commanders in his position to take those actions. William the Conqueror did the same at Hastings. 


-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 15:31
You have failed to refute any of my evidence. He was a brilliant tactician and brave as told in the ancient sources. His victory at Heraclea was entirely his own doing.

-------------


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 15:35
His ineptitude? Tactically he was one of the best of his era. He matched pretty much everyone save a select few. No one Rome had was in the same league.

-------------


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 17:53
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

You have failed to refute any of my evidence. He was a brilliant tactician and brave as told in the ancient sources. His victory at Heraclea was entirely his own doing.
You're going to have to be more specific I'm afraid, Delenda est Roma, as I do not remember anything at all now, that you've put which constitutes the kind of thing that I need to refute. Can you please direct me to the post/s you require me to look at more closely? Btw Which story teller put forward Pyrrhus' bravery?

-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 17:57
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

His ineptitude? Tactically he was one of the best of his era. He matched pretty much everyone save a select few. No one Rome had was in the same league.
The best testimony to a great tactical genius is the victory at the end of the campaign. At the end of the day, and when it really mattered, Rome gave Pyrrhus a good kicking, and sent him away with his tail between his legs.

-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 17:59
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Unable to make any significant gains in action, Pyrrhus deployed his elephants, held in reserve until now. The Roman cavalry was threatening his flank too strongly. Aghast at the sight of these strange and brooding creatures which none had seen before, the horses galloped away and threw the Roman legion into rout. Pyrrhus then launched his Thessalian cavalry among the disorganized legions, which completed the Romans' defeat. The Romans fell back across the river and Pyrrhus held the field.
This was one of his brilliant tactical moves and use of a reserve.

His force began to waver, and the Romans gave a thunderous cheer at the turn of events. Grasping the magnitude of the situation, Pyrrhus rode forward, bare-headed, along the lines of his men to show he was still living. This show of bravery strengthened their resolve, and the battle raged on

This is an example of his bravery. He usually fought in the front helping his men fight,


%20 - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Heraclea#section_3


Look again.

-------------


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 18:04
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

His ineptitude? Tactically he was one of the best of his era. He matched pretty much everyone save a select few. No one Rome had was in the same league.
The best testimony to a great tactical genius is the victory at the end of the campaign. At the end of the day, and when it really mattered, Rome gave Pyrrhus a good kicking, and sent him away with his tail between his legs.


Well here again you're wrong in two ways. His battles had been costly yet he had lost none of them. He kept garrisons in Italy for years afterwards and withdrew to Epirus. His last battle had been indecisive. Now Napoleon, Gustavus Adolphus, Hannibal, Robert Lee, Demetrius, and numerous others were great military men. They all however lost. Does this make them "inept"? No it doesn't. Rome had no one even close to Pyrrhus' caliber. He was a tactical wizard and numerous historians recognize this.

-------------


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 18:10
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

You have failed to refute any of my evidence. He was a brilliant tactician and brave as told in the ancient sources. His victory at Heraclea was entirely his own doing.
You're going to have to be more specific I'm afraid, Delenda est Roma, as I do not remember anything at all now, that you've put which constitutes the kind of thing that I need to refute. Can you please direct me to the post/s you require me to look at more closely? Btw Which story teller put forward Pyrrhus' bravery?


Despite your attempts to denigrate ancient historians they still have far more weight than your opinion. I followed Plutarch and Cassus Dio.

-------------


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 18:19
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Unable to make any significant gains in action, Pyrrhus deployed his elephants, held in reserve until now. The Roman cavalry was threatening his flank too strongly. Aghast at the sight of these strange and brooding creatures which none had seen before, the horses galloped away and threw the Roman legion into rout. Pyrrhus then launched his Thessalian cavalry among the disorganized legions, which completed the Romans' defeat. The Romans fell back across the river and Pyrrhus held the field.
This was one of his brilliant tactical moves and use of a reserve.

His force began to waver, and the Romans gave a thunderous cheer at the turn of events. Grasping the magnitude of the situation, Pyrrhus rode forward, bare-headed, along the lines of his men to show he was still living. This show of bravery strengthened their resolve, and the battle raged on

This is an example of his bravery. He usually fought in the front helping his men fight,


%20 - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Heraclea#section_3


Look again.
I looked, I saw, I read about a man so scared while in battle, that he hid in another man's clothes. There's a really brave man for you. 

-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 18:30
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Unable to make any significant gains in action, Pyrrhus deployed his elephants, held in reserve until now. The Roman cavalry was threatening his flank too strongly. Aghast at the sight of these strange and brooding creatures which none had seen before, the horses galloped away and threw the Roman legion into rout. Pyrrhus then launched his Thessalian cavalry among the disorganized legions, which completed the Romans' defeat. The Romans fell back across the river and Pyrrhus held the field.
This was one of his brilliant tactical moves and use of a reserve.

His force began to waver, and the Romans gave a thunderous cheer at the turn of events. Grasping the magnitude of the situation, Pyrrhus rode forward, bare-headed, along the lines of his men to show he was still living. This show of bravery strengthened their resolve, and the battle raged on

This is an example of his bravery. He usually fought in the front helping his men fight,


%20 - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Heraclea#section_3


Look again.
I looked, I saw, I read about a man so scared while in battle, that he hid in another man's clothes. There's a really brave man for you. 


Didn't think you read it. He used a clever stratagem. He still fought just not making himself a target. It worked well and when needed he showed himself and fought in the frontline. Don't dare call him a coward. Have you fought on the frontlines risking your life? He risked himself every battle and was a hero in battle. You fail to mention his brilliant tactical moves . Please read what I post.

-------------


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 18:31
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Well here again you're wrong in two ways. His battles had been costly yet he had lost none of them. He kept garrisons in Italy for years afterwards and withdrew to Epirus. His last battle had been indecisive. Now Napoleon, Gustavus Adolphus, Hannibal, Robert Lee, Demetrius, and numerous others were great military men. They all however lost. Does this make them "inept"? No it doesn't. Rome had no one even close to Pyrrhus' caliber. He was a tactical wizard and numerous historians recognize this.
No not wrong, Delenda est Roma, had he won the campaign he wouldn't have been going anywhere. He knew he was on the back foot, and got the hell out of dodge. I agree with you on those other names that I only half know, all of them losers. How inept could a person be, Delenda est Roma, when you're saying he was meant to be this great genius but his forces are ripped to shreds, and can't improve on his position against those who you say weren't so good?

-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 18:43
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Well here again you're wrong in two ways. His battles had been costly yet he had lost none of them. He kept garrisons in Italy for years afterwards and withdrew to Epirus. His last battle had been indecisive. Now Napoleon, Gustavus Adolphus, Hannibal, Robert Lee, Demetrius, and numerous others were great military men. They all however lost. Does this make them "inept"? No it doesn't. Rome had no one even close to Pyrrhus' caliber. He was a tactical wizard and numerous historians recognize this.
No not wrong, Delenda est Roma, had he won the campaign he wouldn't have been going anywhere. He knew he was on the back foot, and got the hell out of dodge. I agree with you on those other names that I only half know, all of them losers. How inept could a person be, Delenda est Roma, when you're saying he was meant to be this great genius but his forces are ripped to shreds, and can't improve on his position against those who you say weren't so good?


Tut tut. You do know the meaning of tactical correct? Tactics are for battles not campaigns which is what I stated. He was a wizard TACTICALLY. Napoleon a loser? I recommend you read a history book on him look at Austerlitz or Ulm. His Italian campaign or Austrian Campaigns. Hannibal presented us with Cannae, Gustavus Adolphus with Breteinfield and revolutionized warfare, Demetrius recognized seapower and won numerous canpaigns and battles. Lee also beat his numerically superior opponents. If you would like to call them losers back up your false accusations. Can you produce a single source to call any of these men less than a compotent general? Just one? If you read any of their achievements you would be ashamed and if you did an still spoke ignorantly this conversation is worthless.

-------------


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 18:48
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma


Didn't think you read it. He used a clever stratagem. He still fought just not making himself a target. It worked well and when needed he showed himself and fought in the frontline. Don't dare call him a coward. Have you fought on the frontlines risking your life? He risked himself every battle and was a hero in battle. You fail to mention his brilliant tactical moves . Please read what I post.
You call it a clever stratagem, but put yourself in the other man's shoes, who is braver, the leader hiding in another man's clothes, or the walking target in his leaders clothes? Some hero.

-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 18:54
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Didn't think you read it. He used a clever stratagem. He still fought just not making himself a target. It worked well and when needed he showed himself and fought in the frontline. Don't dare call him a coward. Have you fought on the frontlines risking your life? He risked himself every battle and was a hero in battle. You fail to mention his brilliant tactical moves . Please read what I post.
You call it a clever stratagem, but put yourself in the other man's shoes, who is braver, the leader hiding in another man's clothes, or the walking target in his leaders clothes? Some hero.


Braver the man who lives to fight another day than the one who dies in vain.

-------------


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 18:59
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

 Despite your attempts to denigrate ancient historians they still have far more weight than your opinion. I followed Plutarch and Cassus Dio.

"Plutarch stretches and occasionally fabricates....."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutarch#Life_of_Pyrrhus - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutarch#Life_of_Pyrrhus
"Dio attempted to emulate  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides - Thucydides  in his writing style, but came up short both in arrangement and the presentation of the materials and in the soundness of his viewpoint and accuracy of his reasoning."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassius_Dio#Roman_History - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassius_Dio#Roman_History

So clear and concise wikipedia in comparison. 


-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:01
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

 Despite your attempts to denigrate ancient historians they still have far more weight than your opinion. I followed Plutarch and Cassus Dio.

"<span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19.200000762939453px; ">Plutarch stretches and occasionally fabricates....." </span> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutarch#Life_of_Pyrrhus - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutarch#Life_of_Pyrrhus
"<span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19.200000762939453px; ">Dio attempted to emulate </span> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides - Thucydides <span style="font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 19.200000762939453px; "> in his writing style, but came up short both in arrangement and the presentation of the materials and in the soundness of his viewpoint and accuracy of his reasoning." </span> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassius_Dio#Roman_History - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassius_Dio#Roman_History
So clear and concise wikipedia in comparison. 


What exactly is your point if you posess one at all?

-------------


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:03
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma


Braver the man who lives to fight another day than the one who dies in vain.
So the other man dies for the so called leader's folly. This could very well mean that every coward in history has been wronged, for they are within a band of those mortals known as the brave. No I don't think so. 

-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:08
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

 Tut tut. You do know the meaning of tactical correct? Tactics are for battles not campaigns which is what I stated. He was a wizard TACTICALLY. Napoleon a loser? I recommend you read a history book on him look at Austerlitz or Ulm. His Italian campaign or Austrian Campaigns. Hannibal presented us with Cannae, Gustavus Adolphus with Breteinfield and revolutionized warfare, Demetrius recognized seapower and won numerous canpaigns and battles. Lee also beat his numerically superior opponents. If you would like to call them losers back up your false accusations. Can you produce a single source to call any of these men less than a compotent general? Just one? If you read any of their achievements you would be ashamed and if you did an still spoke ignorantly this conversation is worthless.
Tactics are for battles and not for campaigns, how very novel. As for the others being losers, I noted what you yourself had said, you said they all lost.

-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:10
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

What exactly is your point if you posess one at all?
In regards to which part?

-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:10
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma


Braver the man who lives to fight another day than the one who dies in vain.
So the other man dies for the so called leader's folly. This could very well mean that every coward in history has been wronged, for they are within a band of those mortals known as the brave. No I don't think so. 


He lived to fight again and so he did. He fought till the day he died. He was a warrior through and through. Your argument has no merit whatsoever. His stratagem was brilliant and worked. If he died his whole army was lost so he saved lives. You have no argument. He was tactically brilliant and brave. I provided my evidence you opinions.

-------------


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:12
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

 Tut tut. You do know the meaning of tactical correct? Tactics are for battles not campaigns which is what I stated. He was a wizard TACTICALLY. Napoleon a loser? I recommend you read a history book on him look at Austerlitz or Ulm. His Italian campaign or Austrian Campaigns. Hannibal presented us with Cannae, Gustavus Adolphus with Breteinfield and revolutionized warfare, Demetrius recognized seapower and won numerous canpaigns and battles. Lee also beat his numerically superior opponents. If you would like to call them losers back up your false accusations. Can you produce a single source to call any of these men less than a compotent general? Just one? If you read any of their achievements you would be ashamed and if you did an still spoke ignorantly this conversation is worthless.
Tactics are for battles and not for campaigns, how very novel. As for the others being losers, I noted what you yourself had said, you said they all lost.


Again you fail to refute my argument. All the men I mentioned had at least lost a battle some a war. Yet they were all great some geniuses.

-------------


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:14
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

What exactly is your point if you posess one at all?
In regards to which part?

I stated Pyrrhus was tactically brilliant and brave. The ancients and most modern historians agree with me. Actually I've never heard otherwise.

-------------


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:19
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

 He lived to fight again and so he did. He fought till the day he died. He was a warrior through and through. Your argument has no merit whatsoever. His stratagem was brilliant and worked. If he died his whole army was lost so he saved lives. You have no argument. He was tactically brilliant and brave. I provided my evidence you opinions.
And yet he decided that the life of one of his own men was worthless. If he was so tactically brilliant then why would he have needed to hide in the first place, wouldn't a fabulous tactician not have found a better formation?

-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:22
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

 He lived to fight again and so he did. He fought till the day he died. He was a warrior through and through. Your argument has no merit whatsoever. His stratagem was brilliant and worked. If he died his whole army was lost so he saved lives. You have no argument. He was tactically brilliant and brave. I provided my evidence you opinions.
And yet he decided that the life of one of his own men was worthless. If he was so tactically brilliant then why would he have needed to hide in the first place, wouldn't a fabulous tactician not have found a better formation?


The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. He did what needed to do and did it well.

-------------


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:23
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

What exactly is your point if you posess one at all?
In regards to which part?

I stated Pyrrhus was tactically brilliant and brave. The ancients and most modern historians agree with me. Actually I've never heard otherwise.
I'm doubting both of those things of him, and as far as those ancient historians, like wiki said, they were a little dodgy, and yet these modern historians you are talking about are basing their work on theirs?

-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:28
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. He did what needed to do and did it well.
So you believe in inequality over equality then Delenda est Roma?

-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:31
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

What exactly is your point if you posess one at all?
In regards to which part?

I stated Pyrrhus was tactically brilliant and brave. The ancients and most modern historians agree with me. Actually I've never heard otherwise.
I'm doubting both of those things of him, and as far as those ancient historians, like wiki said, they were a little dodgy, and yet these modern historians you are talking about are basing their work on theirs?


They base them on all the available sources. Do you have any evidence otherwise?

-------------


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:33
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. He did what needed to do and did it well.
So you believe in inequality over equality then Delenda est Roma?


I support the fact that some most die so the many can live.

-------------


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:36
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. He did what needed to do and did it well.
So you believe in inequality over equality then Delenda est Roma?


I support the fact that some most die so the many can live.
Why do you say that, Delenda est Roma, is that a proven fact?

-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:39
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

 

They base them on all the available sources. Do you have any evidence otherwise?
Those quotes from wiki definitely suggested those ancient historians could be dodgy at times, including the use of fabrication of a character's attributes. This doesn't sound like a good basis for a source who could be class as being totally reliable, does it Delenda est Roma?  

-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:40
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. He did what needed to do and did it well.
So you believe in inequality over equality then Delenda est Roma?


I support the fact that some most die so the many can live.
Why do you say that, Delenda est Roma, is that a proven fact?


Yes it in fact is. If there wasn't a mortality rate we would eventually be swamped and many more would die. Your off topic again. You have yet to prove Pyrrhus wasn't a brilliant tactician or brave.

-------------


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:43
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

 
They base them on all the available sources. Do you have any evidence otherwise?
Those quotes from wiki definitely suggested those ancient historians could be dodgy at times, including the use of fabrication of a character's attributes. This doesn't sound like a good basis for a source who could be class as being totally reliable, does it Delenda est Roma?  


Say the person who posts from Wiki. You made a blanket statement. How wereh tey dodgy? Their were quite a few authors on these events not just the two. The fact their accounts mostly corroborate help. So again your attempts to degrade historians are foiled. You have to remember these are ancient historians not modern.

-------------


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:51
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma


Yes it in fact is. If there wasn't a mortality rate we would eventually be swamped and many more would die. Your off topic again. You have yet to prove Pyrrhus wasn't a brilliant tactician or brave.
I'm not off topic. What I said was in respect of the events regarding the way life was seen, and so I asked you your opinion.

-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:56
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Say the person who posts from Wiki. You made a blanket statement. How wereh tey dodgy? Their were quite a few authors on these events not just the two. The fact their accounts mostly corroborate help. So again your attempts to degrade historians are foiled. You have to remember these are ancient historians not modern.
Hey, you named two, I looked them up on wiki, and guess what? They are dodgy in some things they write. The modern historians, I guess they do their work based on these dodgy ancient historians?

-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:56
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Yes it in fact is. If there wasn't a mortality rate we would eventually be swamped and many more would die. Your off topic again. You have yet to prove Pyrrhus wasn't a brilliant tactician or brave.
I'm not off topic, and it's "you're" not "your".


Yes you are in fact off topic. Don't even start with grammar. I've seen numerous posts by you so disjointed it wasn't funny. Only when someone has no argument do they stoop to nitpicking and insults. You have yet to prove Pyrrhus not to be a brave or brilliant tactically man.

-------------


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 19:57
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Say the person who posts from Wiki. You made a blanket statement. How wereh tey dodgy? Their were quite a few authors on these events not just the two. The fact their accounts mostly corroborate help. So again your attempts to degrade historians are foiled. You have to remember these are ancient historians not modern.
Hey, you named two, I looked them up on wiki, and guess what? They are dodgy in some things they write. The modern historians, I guess they do their work based on these dodgy ancient historians?


So thats it you have no evidence to prove me wrong and so have to stoop to trolling? You haven't provided any evidence to back your claims so far.

-------------


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 20:00
EDIT

-------------


Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2012 at 20:49
Guys, please don't resort to personal attacks otherwise this thread could be locked. I know you're both passionate historians, but there's no reason not to keep discussions civil
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6512&FID=3&PR=3 - http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6512&FID=3&PR=3


-------------
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: d' artagnan
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2012 at 19:39
Awe and this was so much fun to watch.

In point though this was a history argument and your trying to turn it into a morality argument. We have a very good philosophy topic just for this reason. Also Alani(don't know your real name) Delanda(don't know your real name) has a point about the choice of historians. You can't insult someones choice of historians and then post a wikipedia topic.

Semper Fidelis

-------------
Hunter Johns

"We're surrounded? Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction."
— Col. Chesty Puller | Korean War


Posted By: d' artagnan
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2012 at 19:40
Please don't close the topic though multiple people put a lot of effort into this and it would be a shame for their hard work to go to waste.

Semper Fidelis


-------------
Hunter Johns

"We're surrounded? Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction."
— Col. Chesty Puller | Korean War


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2012 at 20:02
Thank you dartagan. The man was a brilliant tactician forget morality.

-------------


Posted By: d' artagnan
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2012 at 20:11
Oorah.

In point though I imagine him to be the type who would feel every loss because he strikes me as being a soldiers general. As for morality there is no morality in battle. Rule numero uno

P.S. Its hunter d' artagnan's just the username. I put that at the bottom of my posts because I quite like my name so feel freeto use it:)

Semper Fidelis

-------------
Hunter Johns

"We're surrounded? Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction."
— Col. Chesty Puller | Korean War


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2012 at 20:16
Well Pyrrhus was a great tactician but thats mostly what he has going for him besides being brave.

-------------


Posted By: d' artagnan
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2012 at 20:21
Bravado is often more useful then tactical brilliance.....unless your names Custer

-------------
Hunter Johns

"We're surrounded? Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction."
— Col. Chesty Puller | Korean War


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2012 at 20:43
Tactical brilliance ALWAYS better than bravado.

-------------


Posted By: d' artagnan
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2012 at 01:01
Disagree. Its actually a tactic to put yourself in a position wherebyour backs against the wall and you know your going to die bacause at that point your troops will fight to the death.

I.E. words at bottomof posts

Semper Fi

-------------
Hunter Johns

"We're surrounded? Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction."
— Col. Chesty Puller | Korean War


Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2012 at 01:11
"We're surrounded? Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction."
— Col. Chesty Puller | Korean War
 
That's not necessarily bravado with the Marines of Puller's day nor today....it is what is or what was.... expected of US Marines. Iwo. as much tradition and circumstances.....because in the end; tactical brilliance coupled with bravado by leaders is always a winner....even when ya lose. Not for the soldiers in question perhaps. But perhaps those whom study and learn from it after the fact. And certainly for those who wish to emulate the fighting spirit and leadership demonstrated with the coupling.
 
'Also sprach Centrix Vigilis'


-------------
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'



Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2012 at 05:10
Originally posted by d' artagnan

Disagree. Its actually a tactic to put yourself in a position wherebyour backs against the wall and you know your going to die bacause at that point your troops will fight to the death.

I.E. words at bottomof posts

Semper Fi

Yes, it's a tactic /I use it all the time/ -  burn all the bridges, so there is no way back, and go on and Long Live Death - all or nothing. Good tactic, even if one loses with it, it makes a point and has dignity. What can I say, I just love the man!
Go on, guys, I dig the thread.Smile


-------------


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2012 at 08:22
Originally posted by d' artagnan

Disagree. Its actually a tactic to put yourself in a position wherebyour backs against the wall and you know your going to die bacause at that point your troops will fight to the death.

I.E. words at bottomof posts

Semper Fi


Lets put it this way I'd rather fight under Hannibal than Leonidas.

-------------


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2012 at 13:11
Originally posted by d' artagnan

Oorah.

In point though I imagine him to be the type who would feel every loss because he strikes me as being a soldiers general.
I doubt that a person who feels every loss would consider it to be emotionally justifiable to place one of his own men in his own clothes if he considered that to be of imminent danger of death, especially if that person was meant to be brave. 

-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2012 at 13:25
Originally posted by d' artagnan

Disagree. Its actually a tactic to put yourself in a position wherebyour backs against the wall and you know your going to die bacause at that point your troops will fight to the death.

I.E. words at bottomof posts

Semper Fi

Why would anyone back themselves up against the wall if they were tactically superior. Also if someone was going to do such a strange thing then why would they then hide themselves in another man's clothes, only to make it necessary for themselves to reveal themselves later from a position by all tense and purposes was hidden, and so likely to dishearten their own fighting men?


-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: d' artagnan
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2012 at 13:57
True your odds of surviving are better with Hannibal, but in a battle where the enemy commander isn't a complete moron all it will amount to is a different way of positioning your men. Leonidas on the other hand gave the enemy only one way of attacking him and in that position even because you know you will die all you can do is the brave and honorable thing by taking as many of the enemy as you can with you.

Semper Fi

-------------
Hunter Johns

"We're surrounded? Good, now we can kill the bastards in any direction."
— Col. Chesty Puller | Korean War


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2012 at 14:18
There can be no doubt Pyrrhus was a brilliant tactician.

-------------


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2012 at 14:46
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

There can be no doubt Pyrrhus was a brilliant tactician.
In comparison with who, Leonidas?
How many people would give Pyrrhus much of a chance had they been attacking the Spartans from the same direction the Persians did?


-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2012 at 14:56
EPiRuS=Answering crop hands presence!Very social name is this...Pi/PiI everywhere solved the problems of rulers...No one rules if His/Her people are hungry&thirsty...Smile
PiR/PiIR=Ripe sprout/Flour sprout,I give my voice for PiR=schyte.We still use it here.


Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2012 at 14:58
Ripe sprout means scythe?His name was Dead,He was Kronos himself.Sorry about bold letters above i can change it if you insist.


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2012 at 15:45
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

There can be no doubt Pyrrhus was a brilliant tactician.
In comparison with who, Leonidas?
How many people would give Pyrrhus much of a chance had they been attacking the Spartans from the same direction the Persians did?


Ask the Romans. With limited troops he defeated two Roman armies and fought one to a draw. He also conquered almost the whole of Sicily and defeated several armies in Greece and Macedonia. One of the best if not the best of his day.

-------------


Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2012 at 15:49
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

There can be no doubt Pyrrhus was a brilliant tactician.
In comparison with who, Leonidas?
How many people would give Pyrrhus much of a chance had they been attacking the Spartans from the same direction the Persians did?


Ask the Romans. With limited troops he defeated two Roman armies and fought one to a draw. He also conquered almost the whole of Sicily and defeated several armies in Greece and Macedonia. One of the best if not the best of his day.
 
 
Better yet ask the professional military historians who have examined his career...both contemporary and now. And when one finds himself in a circular debate with an opponent who disagrees.....by doing so one lends more credibility to his argument. In the end however whether that proves sufficient remains to be seen.
 
 
'Also Sprach Centrix Vigilis'


-------------
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'



Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2012 at 16:54
Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Ask the Romans. With limited troops he defeated two Roman armies and fought one to a draw. He also conquered almost the whole of Sicily and defeated several armies in Greece and Macedonia. One of the best if not the best of his day.
Come on, Delenda est Roma, lets not pretend that the time period was anything more than a vacuum between powerful empires. The Romans were not yet anything to shout about, and the others had seen better days.

-------------
What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Delenda est Roma
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2012 at 17:09
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising


Originally posted by Delenda est Roma

Ask the Romans. With limited troops he defeated two Roman armies and fought one to a draw. He also conquered almost the whole of Sicily and defeated several armies in Greece and Macedonia. One of the best if not the best of his day.
Come on, Delenda est Roma, lets not pretend that the time period was anything more than a vacuum between powerful empires. The Romans were not yet anything to shout about, and the others had seen better days.


Really? None of the sucessors were any good? Wow you just revolutionized the study of military history. You can't deny his tactical achievements.

-------------



Print Page | Close Window

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz - http://www.webwizguide.com