Print Page | Close Window

Titus Dismas: Penitent Thief

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Ancient Mesopotamia, Near East and Greater Iran
Forum Discription: Babylon, Egypt, Persia and other civilizations of the Near East from ancient times to 600s AD
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31475
Printed Date: 06-Jul-2022 at 05:53
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Titus Dismas: Penitent Thief
Posted By: Nick1986
Subject: Titus Dismas: Penitent Thief
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2012 at 18:31

Dismas, together with fellow-bandit Gestas, was crucified alongside Jesus at Calvary. Gestas insulted Jesus and asked him to save them, but Dismas (depicted on Christ's right) begged for forgiveness. According to folklore, he accompanied Jesus in the Harrowing of Hell and joined the early Christian saints in paradise


-------------
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!



Replies:
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2012 at 20:03
1 Peter 4:6-11

King James Version (KJV)

6For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

 
Amen.Big smile


-------------
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'



Posted By: Sidney
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2012 at 06:03
According to another tradition, Dismas and Gestas were part of a band of thieves who met Joseph, Mary and Jesus as they were fleeing across the desert to Egypt. Gestas urged the gang to attack and rob them, but Dismas persuaded them to allow the family to pass by unharmed. Sensing something special about the child, Dismas called out to Jesus to remember this act of kindness if Dismas ever needed his mercy. Reunited on Golgotha, Christ fulfilled this request.
St.Dismas is uncanonized, but is generally viewed as the patron saint of criminals, penitent thieves, and undertakers.
In artistic tradition, Dismas is portrayed on Jesus'right, and Gestas on his left.

Nick - who painted your picture? Its got some interesting (to me) points in it. Jesus is the only one nailed to his cross, the other two are tied with rope, which Gestas has managed to loosen. The blood from Jesus' feet is trickling down the post onto the skull beneath, and then seems to blend with the red shaft of the spear in the foreground. The disciples and holy women who I would expect to see weeping beneath Christ are all far more concerned for the fate of Dismas, and the casting of dice for Jesus's cloak is more directed under the cross of Gestas, who is being heavily guarded by two cavalry men. In fact everyone seems to be pointedly ignoring Jesus, except for a single armoured man in the middle distance, who almost looks surprised to have found someone hanging up there!


Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2012 at 09:58
Personally I prefer this one.
 
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Harrowhell.jpg">
The Harrowing of Hell, depicted in the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petites_Heures_of_Jean_de_France,_Duc_de_Berry - - illuminated manuscript commissioned by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John,_Duke_of_Berry -
S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'



Posted By: Leroy
Date Posted: 31-Mar-2012 at 12:02
Like Sydney says, St. Dismas has never been formally canonized, but he is officially venerated as a saint by the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches. He's not formally canonized because Jesus already recognized him as a saint by declaring he would be with him in paradise.

Nick - who painted your picture? Its got some interesting (to me) points in it. Jesus is the only one nailed to his cross, the other two are tied with rope, which Gestas has managed to loosen. The blood from Jesus' feet is trickling down the post onto the skull beneath, and then seems to blend with the red shaft of the spear in the foreground. The disciples and holy women who I would expect to see weeping beneath Christ are all far more concerned for the fate of Dismas, and the casting of dice for Jesus's cloak is more directed under the cross of Gestas, who is being heavily guarded by two cavalry men. In fact everyone seems to be pointedly ignoring Jesus, except for a single armoured man in the middle distance, who almost looks surprised to have found someone hanging up there!


That's an interesting point about the holy women. I'm not sure if I've seen that before. The thieves are usually portrayed tied up though. The skull represents that of Adam, in case anyone was wondering about that.


Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 03-Apr-2012 at 19:13
Originally posted by Sidney

According to another tradition, Dismas and Gestas were part of a band of thieves who met Joseph, Mary and Jesus as they were fleeing across the desert to Egypt. Gestas urged the gang to attack and rob them, but Dismas persuaded them to allow the family to pass by unharmed. Sensing something special about the child, Dismas called out to Jesus to remember this act of kindness if Dismas ever needed his mercy. Reunited on Golgotha, Christ fulfilled this request.
St.Dismas is uncanonized, but is generally viewed as the patron saint of criminals, penitent thieves, and undertakers.
In artistic tradition, Dismas is portrayed on Jesus'right, and Gestas on his left.

Nick - who painted your picture? Its got some interesting (to me) points in it. Jesus is the only one nailed to his cross, the other two are tied with rope, which Gestas has managed to loosen. The blood from Jesus' feet is trickling down the post onto the skull beneath, and then seems to blend with the red shaft of the spear in the foreground. The disciples and holy women who I would expect to see weeping beneath Christ are all far more concerned for the fate of Dismas, and the casting of dice for Jesus's cloak is more directed under the cross of Gestas, who is being heavily guarded by two cavalry men. In fact everyone seems to be pointedly ignoring Jesus, except for a single armoured man in the middle distance, who almost looks surprised to have found someone hanging up there!

I imagine this was a piece of medieval church-art celebrating Dismas as a saint. Jesus may already be dead and the Romans had come to break the legs of those still alive. The weeping women may have been the thief's family


-------------
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!


Posted By: Sidney
Date Posted: 04-Apr-2012 at 11:22
I'm not seeing it the way you are, Nick. Dimas was never recognised officially as a saint, no one is in the picture with poles ready to break legs, and four of the women and the one man at the feet of Dimas have halos, meaning they are holy (as Jesus also has, but Dimas has not - which he would have if he were a saint).

Could it be that Jesus being crucified is at his lowest point as a mortal man, and that his suffering is so great that only he alone can endure it, without any alleviation from others through sympathy or empathy. Jesus is symbolically alone and lonely at this pivitol point of Christian belief ("My God, my God, why hast though forsaken me?" Mark 15;34 is one of Jesus' sayings on the cross).
Could it also be a reference to the idea that even Jesus' own family didn't 'recognise' him and his disciples didn't fully 'know' who he was, therefore they fail to 'see' him on the cross?


Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 04-Apr-2012 at 11:43
I don't disinherit ole Dismas...we could use more like him. But the conundrum for me remains his subsequent stories historical veracity. Most if not all, iirc, is apocrypha. That doesn't necessarily make it false but it does create the confusion.

-------------
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'



Posted By: Sidney
Date Posted: 04-Apr-2012 at 14:45
The painting is by Andreas Mantegba, painted 1457-1459. Still looking for its symbolism'
http://www.artbible.info/art/large/26.html - http://www.artbible.info/art/large/26.html


Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2012 at 19:31
Dismas' feast day was on March 25, the same day as the Anunciation. He is the patron saint of criminals and undertakers:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dnSDWuSTKrEC&lpg=PA115&dq=dismas&pg=PA115#v=onepage&q&f=false - http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=dnSDWuSTKrEC&lpg=PA115&dq=dismas&pg=PA115#v=onepage&q&f=false


-------------
Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains!



Print Page | Close Window

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz - http://www.webwizguide.com