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Niccolò Machiavelli

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: Rate Scientists and Thinkers
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Topic: Niccolò Machiavelli
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Subject: Niccolò Machiavelli
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2011 at 13:17
What are your thoughts on this most maligned individual? 

Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli (Italian pronunciation:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_Italian - [nikkoˌlɔ makjaˈvɛlli] , 3 May 1469 – 21 June 1527) was an  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_People - Italian  historian, philosopher,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_humanism - humanist , and writer based in Florence during the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance - Renaissance . He is one of the main founders of modern  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_science - political science . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niccol%C3%B2_Machiavelli#cite_note-0 - [1]  He was a diplomat,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_philosophy - political philosopher , playwright, and a civil servant of the  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Florence - Florentine Republic . He also wrote comedies, carnival songs, poetry, and some of the most well-known personal correspondence in the Italian language. His position in the regime of Florence as Secretary to the Second  http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/chancery - Chancery  of the  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Florence - Republic of Florence  lasted from 1498 to 1512, a period in which the  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medici - Medici  were not in power. Machiavelli's most well-known writing was, however, after this period, during the time when the Medici recovered power, and Machiavelli was removed from all positions of responsibility.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niccol%C3%B2_Machiavelli - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niccol%C3%B2_Machiavelli

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What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.



Replies:
Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2011 at 14:18
I think he got unfair bad rap. He was a very clever guy, a good historian, a willy politician /as all good politicians are. I like him a lot. He was a true Renaissance man, widely read, and writing in almost all areas that the Renaissance made progress in. I suppose his image as an unscrupulous person came from the unrealistic expectation that politics is supposed to be about morals, which is the shallowest illusion ever - if a politician start giving moral sermons, and plays moral outrage, he/she is the worst type of demagogue.

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Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 30-Aug-2011 at 16:31
The only work of his which I read was 'Il Principe' and though short and concise, I think it is quite valuable especially at the time of the warring states of Italy. He is blunt, cynical but realizes that there is no compromise in politics and saw humans as the political animals they were. I do not abide by the view that he was 'machiavellical' albeit some of his suggestions might sound cruel and cold-hearted. For example, he suggested that anyone who conquers a free society should crush them and impose on them the harshed punishment possible, otherwise he would be expected to be overthrown and his rule would be full of riots. Historically speaking, this was true in many occasions. Think of how the Moors' rule in Spain encountered so much continuing opposition centuries after their conquest of Iberia even though their rule was considered by that time's standard to have been quite peaceful.

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Timidi mater non flet


Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2011 at 00:23
Combine DQ and Baal's posts and you have my appreciation of him.
500 years later most who refuse to acknowledge  the 'method'...attempt to judge a current era nexus with no appreachable contex to his own.

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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'



Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2011 at 05:56
Originally posted by Centrix Vigilis

Combine DQ and Baal's posts and you have my appreciation of him.
500 years later most who refuse to acknowledge  the 'method'...attempt to judge a current era nexus with no appreachable contex to his own.

I couldn't have said it better myself. His works were intuitive, and people not understanding they were bases purely on his observations thought there must have been something sinister involved in the creation of them. 


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What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.


Posted By: Chookie
Date Posted: 31-Aug-2011 at 17:11
Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

I couldn't have said it better myself. His works were intuitive, and people not understanding they were bases purely on his observations thought there must have been something sinister involved in the creation of them. 

There was something sinister - human nature.


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For money you did what guns could not do.........


Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 04-Sep-2011 at 17:20
Originally posted by Chookie

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising

I couldn't have said it better myself. His works were intuitive, and people not understanding they were bases purely on his observations thought there must have been something sinister involved in the creation of them. 

There was something sinister - human nature.

Only they were oblivious to this being a factor. Machiavelli however was looking at the reality of everyday life and see what could really be done, I think. 


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What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.



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