Origin of the Renaissance.
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Medieval Europe
Forum Discription: The Middle Ages: AD 500-1500
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=29997
Printed Date: 08-Jun-2024 at 08:50
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Origin of the Renaissance.
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Subject: Origin of the Renaissance.
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2011 at 16:41
|
The
is a general consensus that the Renaissance began in Florence, Tuscany in the
14th century. What was it that was happening at the time which developed into the Renaissance, and why did it start of in Florence and not somewhere else? ------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Replies:
Posted By: Karalem
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2011 at 17:46
| it was Serenisima, the Republic of Venice that became very reach from trade, the waypoint from and to everywhere in the known world. Modern great architecture is patterned on buildings from Venice or Vicenza or Florence. It connected the Orient with the Netherlands and the Rhine valley, which is how modern western civilization begun. |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2011 at 18:22
|
The fall of the Roman Empire also played a part: when the Turks captured Constantinople many Byzantines fled to the west, taking with them Greek and Roman scientific texts that enabled the rest of Europe to catch up ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2011 at 19:08
|
Some byzantine and Roman texts were already known in the west and reneissance was going on many fields, also on the field of Roman law and its evolution in western Europe. Good example was evolution from teaching Roman law to comment it and finally to use it in practice - the schools of Glosators and Comentators: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossator - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commentator_%28historical%29 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commentator_(historical) ------------- "I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche |
Posted By: Wadjet Horus
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2011 at 19:57
|
Chinese people taught europeans secret knowledges, alchemy, science, occults all came from China via Zheng He, I think Gavin Menzis is right. The home of secret society may be in China.
The sign of Illuminati dating from 200BC from China:
 Why Marco Polo came to China?
And Ahnenerbe? Just coincidence?
Mongols were majority semites and aryans, they were meant to crush the closed door of China for Marco Polo to secure some secre knowledge.
|
Posted By: Karalem
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2011 at 21:25
|
What actually is Byzantium? How do you cut it to fit into the flow of events.The ethymology of the name is not known to me. When the Turks got hold of it, it was merely a city with some folders around it. If it had once been an empire, it was gone long before the Turks made an appearance. The Turks didn't conquer an empire, only the city. |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 12-Aug-2011 at 17:09
|
Yes, but they have been fighting the Byzantine for a while before they made a move to take Constantinople. The name is derived from king Byzas who was a founder of the Greek colony some time in the 7th century BC.
------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2011 at 15:36
|
Are we saying it is a combination between events happening outside of Italy and inside which brought about the Renaissance?
------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2011 at 18:35
|
Definitely, because an influx of Byzantine Greek scholars wouldn't have been enough to start a new era unless there were people actively seeking the knowledge they brought with them. I think that the unifying thought that started the movement was the sentiment people had against the oppression of the church and how it was basically an elitism establishment. The average medieval person was unable to read or write and couldn't even procure a bible if they wanted. So consider that sentiment with an added yearning to discover knowledge on their own and the ease of dissemination of information caused by the Gutenberg printing machine, it was only a matter of time before the renaissance would happen.
------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 14-Aug-2011 at 22:19
I would say the Gutenberg printing machine certainly helped the Renaissance along, but I was under the impression that the Renaissance had already begun at the time of the Gutenberg printing machine. I think you're right about the church however, as looking at Holbein's famous painting The Ambassadors, there's symbolic evidence of that religious tension. ------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2011 at 06:22
|
Is there one single point in time where people can point and say this is where it all started? ------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2011 at 07:41
|
All the renaissance was copy/paste from past!Byzantine arts also Hellenistic,science and rest of books,in the enlightenment period were collected old works with new names on as authors!Question that deserves answer is:Why did they make it than?Why did not do that earlier? |
Posted By: shokdee
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2011 at 07:59
The Fall of Constantinople 1453 ------------- Monkey see monkey do be doobie do |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2011 at 08:58
|
There have been more than one 'renaissance' in Europe, but the one commonly called Renaissance is most known because it marked the end of the Middle Age as an era dominated by obscurantism and feudal relations.
The Renaissance as a phenomenon characterized by rediscovering of the wisdom of the Past and aspiration to more knowledge was not an isolated phenomenon but rather the result of the 'renaissances' that preceded it: -The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolingian_Renaissance - Carolingian Renaissance (8-9th centuries) was the first of the three Western medieval Renaissances. It was followed by the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottonian_Renaissance - Ottonian Renaissance (10th century) and by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_of_the_12th_century - Renaissance of the 12th century , a period of significant changes and the first step in rediscovering the Grek and Latin works of Antiquity, first through the Arab translations in libraries from Spain and Sicily. The Byzantine empire has also had three renaissances: the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_Renaissance - Macedonian Renaissance in 9-10th century followed by the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_civilisation_in_the_twelfth_century - 12th century Byzantine Renaissance and 13-15th century http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palaeologan_Renaissance#Restoration_of_the_Classics - Palaiologian Renaissance . The Byzantine renaissances contributed to the Western ones, especially the last one, when after the fall of Constantinople many of the Byzantine scholars and artists fled to Italy and other Western countries. -------------  |
Posted By: Karalem
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2011 at 11:40
|
Feudalism relations remained well established throughout the Renaissance. Only the development of urban centers and bourgeoisie broke it. Christianity itself never offered any different solution to the medieval lifestyle. |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2011 at 14:19
|
Did a change in the way business did accountancy facilitate any changes?
------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: shokdee
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2011 at 00:16
[Edited: I offer the excuse of laziness to account for my sloppiness above. I should have written: Menumorut, I greatly appreciate the effort you put in to collate all these links. However, a thorough reading of the material, followed by critical analysis of the primary sources, leads me to conclude that they are merely literary fictions, the creation of over eager historians, who we can easily identify.] "Carolingian Renaissance" = literary fiction of modern scholars.
Even the wiki entry says "The use of the term renaissance to
describe this period is contested."
"Ottonian Renaissance" = literary fiction of Hans
Naumann.
"Macedonian Renaissance" = literary fiction of Kurt
Weitzmann.
Again, even the wiki entry concludes "Because the term Renaissance (rinascita) was created in the 15th and 16th centuries by Italian humanists to describe their own time, its use outside of that context is problematic ..." "Renaissance of the 12th century" = literary
fiction of Charles Homer Haskins
Yes, combine "Byzantine Renaissance" and "Byzantium under the Palaiologoi" aka "Palaeologan Renaissance" to get the overall picture of the situation before the Fall of Constantinople, this is the pre-renaissance milieu from which the later true Renaissance emerges, as you recogonize:
------------- Monkey see monkey do be doobie do |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2011 at 10:57
|
I find it fascinating all this talk about other renaissances. Has anyone got a timeline explaining how all these fit in when considering "The Renaissance"?
------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2011 at 13:56
| Because different groups of Romans had told us their version of history.Those days three migration groups have different type of truth of course. |
Posted By: Karalem
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2011 at 14:49
|
There is a relation between Constantinople and Italy. There was a movement of scholars and learned heads from Greece to Italy, registered both during the early Roman Empire and later at the start of the Italian Renaissance. Italy is indeed known as the cradle of Renaissance while one of important parts of this movement are Greek settlers in Italy. Another point to note is that Greek gave way to Latin at some point, or so it seems, as the language of scribes. Italian Renaissance was different to anything else, yet i would expect a cultural bridge between Byzantium and Italy, there somewhere in the darkness of the middle ages. Why, then, Byzantium has never been associated with the Renaissance, what cultural entity it was ? |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 19-Aug-2011 at 17:56
|
Let us call those out of Byzantine Empire emigration groups.We could find even their migration times and reasons for that also if we try.Main Renaissance was after fail of Eastern Empire,cause this was biggest group of emigrants. |
Posted By: shokdee
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2011 at 02:57
|
Naissance begins with sacking of Constantinople 1204 Renaissance begins with sacking of Constantinople 1453 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The events around 1204 lay the foundation for what emerges later .... > Knights Templar are setting up and managing a sophisticated financial infrastructure. The Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon, commonly known as the Knights Templar relatively few members of the Order were combatants. They mainly acted to manage the financial infrastructure. The Templar Order was given control of wealth beyond direct donations. A nobleman might place all his assets under Templar management while he was away. Accumulating wealth in this manner throughout Christendom and the Outremer, the Order began generating letters of credit. This innovative arrangement was an early form of banking, and may have been the first formal system to support the use of cheques and also contributed to the Templar coffers. Based on this mix of donations and business dealing, the Templars established financial networks across the whole of Christendom. The Order of the Knights Templar arguably qualifies as the world's first multinational corporation. (wiki) > Background about Venice at the time. (For now I won't go into the technical details around the Arsenal, the Venetian financial system, nor the trading links and spy networks with both the Byzantium and Mongolian Empires). In the High Middle Ages, Venice became extremely wealthy through its control of trade between Europe and the Levant, and began to expand into the Adriatic Sea and beyond. Venice was involved in the Crusades almost from the very beginning. In the 12th century, the Venetians also gained extensive trading privileges in the Byzantine Empire and their ships often provided the Empire with a navy. Many in the Empire had become jealous of Venetian power and influence, and when in 1182 Andronikos I Komnenos marched on Constantinople, Venetian property was seized and the owners imprisoned or banished, an act which humiliated, and angered the Republic. The Venetian fleet was crucial to the transportation of the Fourth Crusade, but when the crusaders could not pay for the ships, the cunning and manipulative Doge Enrico Dandolo quickly exploited the situation and offered transport to the crusaders if they were to capture the Christian city of Zara, which had rebelled against the Venetian rule in 1183. Upon accomplishing this, the crusade was again diverted to Constantinople, the capital of the Byzantine Empire, another rival of Venice, in order to avenge the 1182 massacre of Venetian citizens living in Constantinople. The city was captured and sacked in 1204. The the sack of the city has been described as one of the most profitable and disgraceful sacks of a city in history. .. The Venetians, who accompanied the crusader fleet, claimed much of the plunder, including the famous four bronze horses which were brought back to adorn St. Mark's basilica. As a result of the subsequent partition of the Byzantine Empire, Venice gained a great deal of territory in the Aegean Sea (three-eighths of the Byzantine Empire).(wiki/Republic_of_Venice) > Venice was the major financial backer of the Fourth Crusade, supplied the ships, and lent money to the Crusaders who became heavily indebted to Venice.
In 1202 the knights of the Fourth Crusade were stranded in
Venice, unable to pay for the ships and provisions they had commissioned from the Venetians. The Doge, Enrico Dandolo developed a plan that allowed the crusaders' debt to be
suspended if they assisted the Venetians in restoring nearby Zadar to Venetian
control. Dandolo convinced
them to stop at Zadar and encouraged the crusaders to attack the city
which had rebelled from Venice. Zadar (a Christian city) was besieged and captured on
November 15, 1202. Shortly afterwords, Alexius Angelus, the exiled son of the deposed Byzantine emperor Isaac II, arrived. Dandolo agreed to go along with the plan to place Alexius Angelus on the throne of the Byzantine Empire in return for Byzantine support of the crusade. This ultimately led to the conquest and sack of Constantinople on April 13, 1204, an event at which Dandolo was present and in which he played a directing role. Venice gained title to three-eighths of the Byzantine Empire as a result of her crucial support to the Crusade. Dandolo died in 1205 and was buried in Hagia Sophia in Constantinople, (wiki/Enrico_Dandolo) > The sacking of Constantinople 1204, destruction and massive looting.
On April 13, 1204 the crusaders inflicted a horrible and
savage sacking on Constantinople for three days, during which many ancient and
medieval Roman and Greek works were either stolen or destroyed. The magnificent
Library of Constantinople was destroyed. Despite their Christian oaths and
the threat of excommunication, the Crusaders ruthlessly and systematically
violated the city's churches and monasteries, destroying, defiling, or stealing
all they could lay hands on; nothing was spared. It was said that the total
amount looted from Constantinople was about 900,000 silver marks. The Venetians
received 150,000 silver marks that was their due, while the Crusaders received
50,000 silver marks. A further 100,000 silver marks were divided evenly up
between the Crusaders and Venetians. The remaining 500,000 silver marks were
secretly kept back by many Crusader knights. (wiki) Remember that the Knights Templar are available to financially manage the windfall and launder the looted silver and gold within their sophisticated financial networks.
I hope everyone gets the main idea. The key player and benefactor is
VENICE. Now that opens up a whole new can of worms, but I trust the
information outlined above gives you a clearer picture of what was really going on, who was funding it, who was directing it, and who stood to
gain the most. What happens between 1204 and 1453 is another story. To further understand the Renaissance, we could try to drill down a little more. Recall that "many ancient and medieval Roman and Greek works were stolen". This is
an gross understatement as the documents must have included Egyptian and
Arabic books as well. What knowledge was contained in all these stolen books?
Edit: "The documents must have included Egyptian and Arabic books as well" as those from ... ..... (Africa? India? China? Mongolia? the Balkans? central Europe? Constantinople was the hub of trade, with links stretching out along the Silk Road.) ------------- Monkey see monkey do be doobie do |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2011 at 08:03
|
Shokdee, the concept and term "Renaissance" is a convention. Any revival and period of cultural flourishing and can be called like that, the 15th century Renaissance has no more rights, is just more popular. The Western medieval renaissances and the three Byzantine renaissances are concepts used by many scholars, even some of Wikipedia articles don't mention this usage.
Your definition of Renaissance and 'Naissance' is your invention and is simplist and dogmatic. The scholar consensus is that Renaissance began in 14th century. ------------- |
Posted By: shokdee
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2011 at 08:47
The term has a specific meaning and context, it can't be brandished about will-nilly. Or maybe I can interest you in my recent discovery of a "Hogwarts Renaissance" all backed up with still images from the movies ofcourse. 
No  We should try think for ourselves not mindlessly parrot what we read, especially not mistake fairy tales for fact.
I don't know what you've got against original, creative thinking, but to dismiss it as "simplist and dogmatic" is terribly ironic and very sad.  I don't have many answers but I do have a few tiny ideas that I hope can help readers make sense of history. I've been studying and thinking deeply about these issues my entire adult life, I'm not a pimply teenager hijacking his mom's computer. (Not implying anything Menumorut - I'm sure you have your own computer or, at the least, access to acne cream  ).I came to the All Empires forum looking for stimulating conversation and debate, fresh perspectives, new information, but until now I've been very disappointed, encountering  ------------- Monkey see monkey do be doobie do |
Posted By: Karalem
Date Posted: 20-Aug-2011 at 12:49
|
Dutch Templars kept good relations with Venice. Netherlands was in the grid of Venice Trade. I wonder how important Venice was to the creation of the Teutonic Order.
|
Posted By: shokdee
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2011 at 04:41
Excellent!  I love watching Egrets pick off parasites. Please just go ahead and brain dump all you can about this. Just throw out ideas, key words if you have too. What is the Teutonic Order? Why should be care about them? How would we proceed if we wanted to investigate any links to Venice? What links do you suspect there are? How important do you think Venice was to the creation of the Teutonic Order? Also, the Dutch and the Renaissance, any ideas? What was the state of Dutch technology at the time of the Renaissance? Who invented the telescope? Where the Dutch involved with the Teutonic Order? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2UPUaYLx68 - - 'n Boer maak 'n plan ------------- Monkey see monkey do be doobie do |
Posted By: shokdee
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2011 at 05:32
Inspirational "Modern great architecture is patterned on buildings from Venice or Vicenza or Florence" Some examples? "... which is how modern western civilization begun."  What, this is sacrilege! What EVIDENCE do you have for such outrageous claims! MODERATORS! ------------- Monkey see monkey do be doobie do |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2011 at 05:38
|
Why do i have weird feeling that reincarnation of Ron Huges speaks(Aka Opuslola!) inside you?
|
Posted By: shokdee
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2011 at 05:47
|
So strange, I really miss Ron. I hope I didn't put him off somehow. Ron baby, where are you? Put aside the Fomenko books and join the party. ------------- Monkey see monkey do be doobie do |
Posted By: shokdee
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2011 at 06:30
Outstanding A "cultural bridge ... somewhere in the darkness". How do we shine a light into the darkness? How can we find this mysterious bridge? "Why, then, Byzantium has never been associated with the Renaissance" Beats me! Any ideas? ------------- Monkey see monkey do be doobie do |
Posted By: shokdee
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2011 at 09:23
My medicines have finally started kicking in, so a chance
to sincerely apologize to Menumorut for
the cheap jokes.  ALL the posts in this thread have been outstanding.
From medenaywe's cheeky "the renaissance was copy/paste from past" to the Baal Melqart's observation that "there were people actively seeking the knowledge" many great comments. But we need to tie these different insights together -
it's not that hard.
For example: The people seeking the knowledge - are mainly getting copies.
------------- Monkey see monkey do be doobie do |
Posted By: Karalem
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2011 at 09:29
We can call them simply Templar's, if you want, or Crusaders.The origin, of course, begins in Jerusalem in Palestine. Their connections with the papal state helped in next hundred years and later acquire lands in Germany and elsewhere. Jerusalem itself became the holy land that drew pilgrims from all over Europe, even form England. A Samaritan venture turns to the combat order, the pilgrims turn warriors and conquer Europe. Venice pays, Jerusalem sets the stage. They fight pagans and they get land for it. Fair enough. Everything runs fine until the protestants appear and Rome aka Babel loses control over the Teutons, not so poor themselves; they have been running their own independent trades and routes since quite a while in the Baltic and North Sea, although independent here could be questioned. |
Posted By: Karalem
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2011 at 09:43
Andrea di Pietro della Gondola. You should know the guy and his architecture and the 18th and 19th century architecture all over the world, basically copied from his designs |
Posted By: Karalem
Date Posted: 21-Aug-2011 at 09:53
I don't know. We can call it the million dollar question and go home. |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 22-Aug-2011 at 09:42
I'm not too sure the fall of the Byzantine Empire falling started the ball rolling at all, but it's not to say the Byzantine Empire didn't contribute. The Council of Florence in my opinion was an important factor with much cultural exchanges going on. Enough I would say to facilitate a great deal of change in thinking and design. ------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 23-Aug-2011 at 10:52
|
Did wealth play its part in creating anything to do with the Renaissance, and if so how did this work? ------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 23-Aug-2011 at 14:31
|
Emigrants had existed before Empire failed.Art shows us their work inside empire also.Next empire destroyed or upgraded lot of those achievements.Cause part of artists&participants have shared renaissance on both sides!In both religions also. |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 23-Aug-2011 at 15:20
Are you talking about actual emigrants work taking place, or influence? ------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 23-Aug-2011 at 15:26
|
Let us call them actual.Imagine western Europe those days as Americas colonies after.After Rome had failed Byzantine created centers of power,trading mostly,similar to Hong Kong all around that we know today after it's fail as centers of Renaissance. |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 23-Aug-2011 at 15:50
I'm not saying you are wrong or anything, I was just wondering if you had names. After hearing about the contribution of the cultural exchanges made at the Council of Florence, I'm interested at what else was transferred from all over, including Africa, before the fall of the Eastern Roman Empire. That way maybe it would be easier to measure. ------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 25-Aug-2011 at 21:06
|
Do we know for certain when The Renaissance started? It seems to me as if there's some confusion on this question, why should this be the case? ------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: Don Quixote
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2011 at 02:50
|
I think it started with the Quattrochento in Italy, in 1400 BC; Quattrocento is seen as very late Middle Age in Europe north on Italy, and the beginning of Renaissance in Italy. Boticcelli, Mantegna and Masaccio lived and worked in this time. The time-frame of the Renaissance is 14-17 century AD, but it had different expressions in different countries, like in Germany it started in 15 century, with the Burgundian School in music; in France in 15 century too; in England in 16 century with Shakespeare and Marlow; in Poland in mid 15 century with Fillip Callimacus, etc.
------------- |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 26-Aug-2011 at 05:23
|
Thank you, Don Quixote. Looking up that time period, the Quattrochento, you certainly get the sense it is a bridge between one era to the next. Though that might have a lot to do with the list of great artist who would be considered to be both Quattrochento and Renaissance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quattrocento - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quattrocento ------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 03-Jan-2012 at 17:12
I found this when looking at another aspect of the renaissance, and was pleasantly surprised at what I've found.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trecento - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trecento ------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2012 at 10:55
|
Here we have some music composed by the Trecento's most famous composer, Francesco Landini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzloIi9UtVU&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=AVacdYuOj0G3vkXfixtqcybbSh-Hjy4upV - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzloIi9UtVU&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=AVacdYuOj0G3vkXfixtqcybbSh-Hjy4upV
http://www.mymusicbase.ru/PPB/ppb25/Bio_2507.htm - http://www.mymusicbase.ru/PPB/ppb25/Bio_2507.htm ------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: andy4675
Date Posted: 30-Jan-2012 at 01:02
Not any. Renaissance means reborn. The word reborn in this context has to be attached to the wods "of the Claccical World". Renaissance=reborn of the Classical World.
Greko-Byzantine Christianity affected the Western Christianity for centuries. In the 1272 Lyon Synod and 1438-1439 Ferrara/Florentia Synod of the Eastern Church the Eastern Christianity made moves to satisfy the ambitions of Popes.
Many Greeks acted in Italy. Since Venetia conquered a big part of the Eastern Roman Empire, many Greeks came here too. In the 14-th century there were some historic people, representative of the Orthodox spirit. One of them is Gregorius Palamas. Also existed Varlaam the Calabrian. Another great personality is the historian an scientist Nikephorus Gregoras (he invented astrolabion and found the difference between the real year with the Julian calendar - his observation did not made the patriarch make it work - already in the 14-th century; finally, the Pope Gregorius made it working - for the Western world - using the exact formula of Nikephorus Gregora to count, and that way the calendar took it's name - Gregorian - after the Pope, and not it's inventor).
One of the most influental Greek philosophs was the Neo-Platonic Plethon-Gemistus (1355 - 1452), who was in Italy after 1438, and with his help in Florenzia founded the Plato Academy. Also existed the Aristotelic Georgios Gennadio-Scholarios (the first patriarch under the Turkic rule) and Marcus Eugenikus, and Besarion, the orthodox episcopos who became cardinal by complexing Plato and Aristotle together.
Of course, many Greeks fled to the Moscow Duchy also, and there the cultural change was much weaker. Although, even there we have the Byzantine-style icons (and we learn about Greek library of the first czars). Many people of arts also left the Greece. Probably, two of the biggest Greek painters of the time were Theophanes Strelitzas the Cretan, Domenicus Theotocopoulos (better known as El Greco) from Crete and Theophanes the Greek.
Siena School, work of the mid 13-th century. Completely Byzantine work in the pre-Renaissance Italy:
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Duccio_The-Madonna-and-Child-128.jpg - http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Duccio_The-Madonna-and-Child-128.jpg
or Russian Byzantine School:
http://www.icon-art.info/masterpiece.php?lng=ru&mst_id=356 - http://www.icon-art.info/masterpiece.php?lng=ru&mst_id=356
The 16-th century Cretan masterpieces:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Agia_Paraskevi.jpg - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Agia_Paraskevi.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LiturgieDamaskinos.jpg - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LiturgieDamaskinos.jpg
Byzantin scientists moved t Italy in three waves: In the beginning of 14-th century they were called to study here - for example the presence of Emanuil Chrysoloras made a tradition of study the ancient greek language by the Florentia school. Then in 1438 - 1439 during the Synod of Ferrara - Florentia. Lastly, in the 1453, when in many places created diaspora of the Greek scientists. ------------- If Parmenion is a trator, then whom to believe? But if he is not, then what to do? - Antipatros |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 30-Jan-2012 at 19:23
|
The European Renaissance probably wouldn't have happened without the
fall of the Roman Empire. When the Turks took Constantinople many Greek
and Latin books were brought to Italy, enabling Western Europe to catch
up with, and ultimately overtake, the East
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: andy4675
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2012 at 13:34
|
Those days Italian scientists and people of art was awaiting for something to be revealed. Popes also was ready to pay for something of the classical world to come. The Byzantine state was diying and ready to give what was left to be given. So, the ideas fall on the ready soil and gave birth to the reborn.
How much counted the ancient art those days we know from one detail of Michaelangelo's life, who tried to mystify people by making new art works and present them as ancient ones. ------------- If Parmenion is a trator, then whom to believe? But if he is not, then what to do? - Antipatros |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2012 at 16:32
------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: andy4675
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2012 at 16:51
|
No, I don't. But the coming of the Greek books and philosophers must have helped the very good italian maestros to find new ways of creation. At least, since the Pope's money would go to the works similar to Classical, it is easy to understand, what maestros whas going to do next. Let me put it this way: if today the today's mecenats and artlovers would pay only for works of classical aesthetics, tho most of the people of art would make again Classical school works. It is a logical scenario - that is all I'm saying... ------------- If Parmenion is a trator, then whom to believe? But if he is not, then what to do? - Antipatros |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2012 at 17:09
------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: andy4675
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2012 at 17:55
|
This is one of the symbols of the Saint Mark town. The tethrippo (quadriga) of Chios (charriot with 4 horses) made of bronze and gold. Venetians took it in 1204 from Constantinople (watch the video):
http://unews.pathfinder.gr/culture/ta-4-hrysohalkina-aloga-ths-hioy-ths-kwnstantinoypolhs-ths-benetias.html - http://unews.pathfinder.gr/culture/ta-4-hrysohalkina-aloga-ths-hioy-ths-kwnstantinoypolhs-ths-benetias.html
Photo:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_WRnjT3uFlIg/TBX8EO7BC3I/AAAAAAAACQA/lzQ99vOc5s0/s1600/%CF%84%CE%B1+%CE%BA%CE%BB%CE%B5%CE%BC%CE%BC%CE%AD%CE%BD%CE%B1+%CE%AC%CE%BB%CE%BF%CE%B3%CE%B1+%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%85+%CE%91%CE%B3%CE%AF%CE%BF%CF%85+%CE%9C%CE%AC%CF%81%CE%BA%CE%BF%CF%85+%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B7%CE%BD+%CE%92%CE%B5%CE%BD%CE%B5%CF%84%CE%AF%CE%B1.jpg - http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_WRnjT3uFlIg/TBX8EO7BC3I/AAAAAAAACQA/lzQ99vOc5s0/s1600/%CF%84%CE%B1+%CE%BA%CE%BB%CE%B5%CE%BC%CE%BC%CE%AD%CE%BD%CE%B1+%CE%AC%CE%BB%CE%BF%CE%B3%CE%B1+%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%85+%CE%91%CE%B3%CE%AF%CE%BF%CF%85+%CE%9C%CE%AC%CF%81%CE%BA%CE%BF%CF%85+%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B7%CE%BD+%CE%92%CE%B5%CE%BD%CE%B5%CF%84%CE%AF%CE%B1.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uafgglKtRK4/Thn_AdMKkTI/AAAAAAAAAjs/Oo4w7cvQCas/s1600/quadriga.jpg - http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uafgglKtRK4/Thn_AdMKkTI/AAAAAAAAAjs/Oo4w7cvQCas/s1600/quadriga.jpg
General Moroziniintentionally destroyed Parthenon by bombing it, although he knew there was a military store of the turkish army. Then he tried to take away tethrippo (quadriga) of Poseidon of the Parthenon (the Athena and Poseidon fighting over the possesion of the Athens complex), but he did not manage it, although caused a further destroy of the monument. So, he "just" took the well-known lions (because Piraeus before was known also as "Porto Leone" - for Lions sculptures). This lion is anothe symbol of Venetia today. Morozini took one big lion (on the picture) and 3 smaller:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piraeus_Lion - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piraeus_Lion
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cqjPy3CcFgA/S9cUD20r7RI/AAAAAAAAbWE/dOOVGLCInNs/s320/Image.ashx.jpg - http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cqjPy3CcFgA/S9cUD20r7RI/AAAAAAAAbWE/dOOVGLCInNs/s320/Image.ashx.jpg
http://ellas2.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/liontrari.jpg - http://ellas2.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/liontrari.jpg
Saint Mark decoration inside is very close to Byzantine Churches decoration. But on the same site you can see a smaller lion from Piraeus, on the St Mark's square:
http://kariatida62.blogspot.com/2011/03/all-italia-no-quatro-venezia-by-night.html - http://kariatida62.blogspot.com/2011/03/all-italia-no-quatro-venezia-by-night.html
Venetia today have much more architecture of barocco-rocoro style. The Venetia of 12-14 centuries buildings is very hard to find. In Venetia lived a strong greek diaspora at least to the late 18-th century (as Orlovs wrote around 1770). ------------- If Parmenion is a trator, then whom to believe? But if he is not, then what to do? - Antipatros |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2012 at 19:12
|
Here is a link with some interesting Islamic influence on Venice.
http://venice.umwblogs.org/exhibit/venice-and-the-east-the-facade-of-san-marco/eastern-architectural-influences/ - http://venice.umwblogs.org/exhibit/venice-and-the-east-the-facade-of-san-marco/eastern-architectural-influences/ ------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: andy4675
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2012 at 20:40
|
It probaly is true also. But even if I don't know the city of the Dead of Cairo date, you must consider, that the sculpture down the page it is not a venetian borrow from Ottomans, because their sculptor is about 200 years earlier... ------------- If Parmenion is a trator, then whom to believe? But if he is not, then what to do? - Antipatros |
Posted By: TheAlaniDragonRising
Date Posted: 01-Feb-2012 at 22:29
 ------------- What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture. |
Posted By: andy4675
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2012 at 15:40
|
I don't desagree. Maybe, they affected the Italian art also (though maybe probably mostly by the spanish islamic art). ------------- If Parmenion is a trator, then whom to believe? But if he is not, then what to do? - Antipatros |