Ancient Arab tribes and Jews
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Post-Classical Middle East
Forum Discription: SW Asia, the Middle East and Islamic civilizations from 600s - 1900 AD
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28350
Printed Date: 25-Apr-2024 at 02:19
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Ancient Arab tribes and Jews
Posted By: Molokane
Subject: Ancient Arab tribes and Jews
Date Posted: 24-Apr-2010 at 22:40
| Does anybody know how these ancient people look like? There is no such thing as an unmixed Jew, but I am sure they look similar to how unmixed Arabs look, though I'm not even sure any Arab is unmixed considering how much pillaging went on. Same goes for ancient semitic tribes as well. |
Replies:
Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 28-Apr-2010 at 09:17
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You raise an interesting and volatile question! Regarding Jews, in todays world the two largest sections are those Jews whose origin is mostly hidden in the remote areas of Russia, Hungary, Poland, etc., and the other branch with its origins (which are also somewhat cloudy) from Spanish Iberia!
The question is, which group has the most Jewish characteristics? Answer is, no one really knows, since the majority of Jews in the Levant were reportedly exciled to differing parts of the world in a series of explusions covering a thousand or more years, etc.! Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02-Jul-2010 at 19:40
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There are a few depictions of Biblical period Israelites, namely the Assyrian stele that depicts the submission of "Iaua ben Omri" (King Jehu, in the Old Testament) to Shalmeneser I.
King "Iaua" has medium-length hair and a fairly short beard, whilst his attendants behind him are clean shaven with womanishly long hair - possibly eununchs?
 Egyptian paintings depict Israelis or similar tribesmen - maybe Arabs. They are shown with black hair, a medium skin-tone, and goatees.
I would think that modern-day Palestinians are the closest thing to ancient Israelis that we still have with us, in terms of ethnic features. ------------- |
Posted By: DreamWeaver
Date Posted: 03-Jul-2010 at 12:47
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So very hard to tell with so much time and immigration having taken place
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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 03-Jul-2010 at 14:32
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I would first suggest that certain family names are one way to determine ancient relativism! Kaplan/Cohen/Cohan/Coen, etc., might well be one?
I'd bet some of you could suggest others? Addendum! The real truth is, considering the numerous Biblical accounts of dispora, that no one, of merit?, can consider that they are not at least part Jewish! Now, I do not mean Jewish in the Jewish sense, but rather they might have had a Jewish father! To be a real Jew, one it seems must have a Jewish mother! It is a lot like Royal experience, that is the father has little to do with the Regality of the children! Until paternity test became available, one could only say that the child came from the "Royal Mother", and at one time or another the child was born in full view of a group that were sworn to verify it! Regards, But, perhaps, someone might tell me other wise? Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 10-Jul-2010 at 13:53
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There were numerous ancient Arabian tribes, not just one people. They also didn't all speak the same language like Arabs today... There were two main groups, North Arabians (Adnanites) and South Arabians (Qahtanites). They spoke two different language groups; the North Arabians spoke the Ancient North Arabian languages (this group includes preclassical Arabic, the ancestor of modern Arabic) and the South Arabians spoke the Old South Arabian languages. These two language groups are quite distinct, and the Old South Arabian languages were probably more closely related to the Ethiopic language group.
The reason today for all Arabs speaking the same language is because the Qureishi dialect (Classical Arabic) is the language of the Quran, and so this dialect replaced all other dialects and languages and it became the lingua franca of Egypt, the Levant and North Africa.
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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 10-Jul-2010 at 14:11
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Dear Arab! Did not really know the above! Thanks for the information! You and your language, have indeed been, at least for the literate, codified and confined, to produce indeed, a language for all of the people of the "Word!"
This same thing was tried in Europe, but failed miserably! I guess, because N. Europeans were a lot more hard headed and spoke many more ancient languages, than the people in Arabia, etc.? But, except in educational and spiritual situations, Latin was only spoken or written and read, by a very few, and their attempt to spread its breadth across Europe was much less successful as what has happened in your Muslim area of the world! But, back to the spirit of this particual thread, can you or anyone in your "Arabic" family, point to some time where your ancestors would look more like Ishmael or Isaac? Maybe the "pen" was "mighter than the sword?" Or maybe the other way? Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Arab
Date Posted: 10-Jul-2010 at 15:19
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudhar - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudhar
If this wikipedia article is correct, then I am a descendant of Ishmael and Abraham themselves...
You see, I am from the tribe of Qais, which is a branch of the Mudhar tribe, whose founder according to the article is a direct descendant of Ishmael and Abraham.
My tribe had a role in Islam, they helped the Qureish in their battles with the Muslims. My tribe was also notorious for... raiding caravans. They later migrated to Iraq and Syria where they mixed with the locals. It's only my mother who is Arab though, my father is Iranian.
Anyway, most "Arabs" today are not really Arabs, genetically speaking. True Arabs are from the Arabian peninsula, where they remain in a very pure form in Yemen and southern Saudi Arabia. The "Arab" haplogroup, J1, is found at 80% in Yemen and southern Saudi. So if you want to know pure Semites looked, you should look over there.
Here in my country though, Bahrain, an island in the Persian Gulf, there is a huge amount of Iranian genetic influence, due to immigrants coming here for the past 400 years.
Did you know that the interior of the Arabian peninsula was in its entire history ruled by the Arabs? Considering this factor, I'm sure most Arabian Arabs are purely Arab.
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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 10-Jul-2010 at 17:22
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I did not know if you knew that many scholars used to refer to Arabs as Ishmaelites?
If you know this, good! But, I only made this question, as to whether one might look like the father or the mother to make a point! At the worst, Jews and Arabs, were at one time, half brothers and sisters! Regards, ------------- http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/ |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 22-Mar-2011 at 18:08
| At that time Jews and Arabs would probably have looked very similar, the only difference being their religious beliefs. Both groups claimed descent from Abraham through his sons Isaac and Ismail |
Posted By: Athena
Date Posted: 25-Mar-2011 at 18:40
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http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html The link explains the DNA studies of different Jewish groups. We might expect their early property laws to limit the mixing of Jews with non Jews. A woman's children would not inherit land, if there was any question of who the father was. This made virginity very important. |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 04-Apr-2011 at 20:26
I do not agree with that statement. Palestinians are decended from the Philistines also known as Peleshet by Egyptians and P'leshtim by the Israelites. These might have mixed with people from other parts of the mediterranean. Yet, I saw this documentary which showed that today's Lebanese living in Sidon (Sida) are not so different genetically to their Phoenician forefathers. I think that the Lebanese are probably the closest genetically to the Jews. ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 04-Apr-2011 at 20:45
I thought the Palestinians were descended from the original Jews who stayed after the Temple's destruction. Most of the Philistines were driven out by David and his successors |