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Left-wing or right-wing

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Topic: Left-wing or right-wing
Posted By: flaja
Subject: Left-wing or right-wing
Date Posted: 26-May-2008 at 21:40

Government:
1. The government levies heavy taxes.
2. The government prints money whenever necessary to avoid deficit spending or borrowing.
3. The government subsidizes things like factory construction and maintenance.
4. The government determines what a farm will produce.
5. The government determines the prices at which a farmer may sell what he produces (the prices are automatically set above what the market would otherwise dictate so farmers have a certain amount of guaranteed income).
6. The government determines what goods and services businesses can produce, how much they will produce and the price at which the produced goods and services will be sold.
7. The government, at the direction of business owners, determines the wages and salaries of all employees.
8. The government provides health insurance, unemployment insurance, disability insurance and a retirement pension to employees.
9. The government operates an organization that provides low-cost recreational and cultural activities- things like luxury cruise vacations for less than 2 weeks’ pay.
10. The government conscripts labor for public works projects in order to relieve massive, chronic or long-term unemployment.

Farmers:
1. Family farms may not be mortgaged or seized by creditors.
2. Family farms may not be sold.
3. Family farms must be inherited by the farmer’s oldest son or the nearest male relative and the heir is responsible for providing a living for the deceased farmer’s surviving spouse and minor children.

Business owners:
1. All corporations worth less than $500,000 must be sold to a larger corporation or closed.
2. No new corporation worth less than $2.8 million may be established.
3. No more than 6% of a corporation’s profits may be distributed as dividends. The remaining 94% must be either re-invested in the corporation or be used to purchase government bonds (which the government is not obligated to ever pay back).
4. Employers may demand greater output from employees without increasing wages or benefits.
5. Large business must either form cartels or join already existing cartels pertaining to whatever industry the business is associated with.

6. No business may fire an employee or lay off an employee without the government’s permission.

Labor:
1. Labor unions are illegal.
2. Employees may not strike.
3. No employee may leave his employer without the employer’s permission.
4. An employee must pay anywhere from 15 to 35 per cent of his pay in taxes and charitable donations mandated by the government.




Replies:
Posted By: Parnell
Date Posted: 26-May-2008 at 23:14
....wha?

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Posted By: flaja
Date Posted: 27-May-2008 at 00:45
Originally posted by Parnell

....wha?
 

Which political ideology would support this socio-economic plan?



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 27-May-2008 at 01:07
A fictional stereotypical left wing ideology as seen through a grumpy conservative's eyes.

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Posted By: DesertHistorian
Date Posted: 31-May-2008 at 19:29
Seems like the way things are going whether this is a real or fictional ideology. Seems like the move to the left continues regardless of how much the people resist.
An interesting list of what might be called "Hillary Clinton's wish list"! LOL
It would definitely have to be more extreme to cover Barack Obama's wish list! LOL
 
 
Originally posted by flaja

Government:
1. The government levies heavy taxes.
2. The government prints money whenever necessary to avoid deficit spending or borrowing.
3. The government subsidizes things like factory construction and maintenance.
4. The government determines what a farm will produce.
5. The government determines the prices at which a farmer may sell what he produces (the prices are automatically set above what the market would otherwise dictate so farmers have a certain amount of guaranteed income).
6. The government determines what goods and services businesses can produce, how much they will produce and the price at which the produced goods and services will be sold.
7. The government, at the direction of business owners, determines the wages and salaries of all employees.
8. The government provides health insurance, unemployment insurance, disability insurance and a retirement pension to employees.
9. The government operates an organization that provides low-cost recreational and cultural activities- things like luxury cruise vacations for less than 2 weeks’ pay.
10. The government conscripts labor for public works projects in order to relieve massive, chronic or long-term unemployment.

Farmers:
1. Family farms may not be mortgaged or seized by creditors.
2. Family farms may not be sold.
3. Family farms must be inherited by the farmer’s oldest son or the nearest male relative and the heir is responsible for providing a living for the deceased farmer’s surviving spouse and minor children.

Business owners:
1. All corporations worth less than $500,000 must be sold to a larger corporation or closed.
2. No new corporation worth less than $2.8 million may be established.
3. No more than 6% of a corporation’s profits may be distributed as dividends. The remaining 94% must be either re-invested in the corporation or be used to purchase government bonds (which the government is not obligated to ever pay back).
4. Employers may demand greater output from employees without increasing wages or benefits.
5. Large business must either form cartels or join already existing cartels pertaining to whatever industry the business is associated with.

6. No business may fire an employee or lay off an employee without the government’s permission.

Labor:
1. Labor unions are illegal.
2. Employees may not strike.
3. No employee may leave his employer without the employer’s permission.
4. An employee must pay anywhere from 15 to 35 per cent of his pay in taxes and charitable donations mandated by the government.



Posted By: Parnell
Date Posted: 31-May-2008 at 20:01
I was going to say national socialism...

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Posted By: edgewaters
Date Posted: 01-Nov-2008 at 21:17
Yeah, this doesn't exactly fit in the left-right spectrum.

It sounds very much like national socialism, but there are also analogies with mercantalist economic regimes of the early capitalist era.

Primogeniture on farmlands throws this completely outside of modern political economy - whatever this is, it is extremely reactionary.

I would hazard a guess that this is either a list of policies from Czarist Russia or Nazi Germany.


Posted By: gcle2003
Date Posted: 02-Nov-2008 at 11:26
Aristotle would have gone for the bit on farms. But not much of the rest of it.
 
(I'm not saying Aristotle mentions mortgages, because I don't think he knew about them, but I'm sure he'd approve of the rule.)
 
The closest I can think of to the whole program is Mussolini's Fascism, though I can see why people are reminded of Hitler and other right-wing extremists.
 
All governments print money (which isn't 'avoiding' deficit spending, it is deficit spending) when necessary, and subsidise factory construction and maintenance. Never to do so would simply be stupidly impractical no matter what yoiur political opinions.


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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02-Jan-2009 at 01:17
here's a bit of a thought provoker:

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=qUN55zS4BPs - http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=qUN55zS4BPs


Posted By: Akolouthos
Date Posted: 02-Jan-2009 at 04:11

And what thoughts does it provoke in your mind? Please provide an analysis to avoid being classified as a spammer/troll. Wink

-Akolouthos


Posted By: eaglecap
Date Posted: 16-Jan-2009 at 18:52
Originally posted by flaja

<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT face="Courier New" color=#172b50 size=2>Government: </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: #172b50; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'"><FONT face="Courier New"><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">1. The government levies heavy taxes. </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">2. The government prints money whenever necessary to avoid deficit spending or borrowing. </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">3. The government subsidizes things like factory construction and maintenance. </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">4. The government determines what a farm will produce. </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">5. The government determines the prices at which a farmer may sell what he produces (the prices are automatically set above what the market would otherwise dictate so farmers have a certain amount of guaranteed income). </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">6. The government determines what goods and services businesses can produce, how much they will produce and the price at which the produced goods and services will be sold. </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">7. The government, at the direction of business owners, determines the wages and salaries of all employees. </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">8. The government provides health insurance, unemployment insurance, disability insurance and a retirement pension to employees. </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">9. The government operates an organization that provides low-cost recreational and cultural activities- things like luxury cruise vacations for less than 2 weeks’ pay. </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">10. The government conscripts labor for public works projects in order to relieve massive, chronic or long-term unemployment. </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">Farmers: </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">1. Family farms may not be mortgaged or seized by creditors. </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">2. Family farms may not be sold. </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">3. Family farms must be inherited by the farmer’s oldest son or the nearest male relative and the heir is responsible for providing a living for the deceased farmer’s surviving spouse and minor children. </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">Business owners: </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">1. All corporations worth less than $500,000 must be sold to a larger corporation or closed. </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">2. No new corporation worth less than $2.8 million may be established. </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">3. No more than 6% of a corporation’s profits may be distributed as dividends. The remaining 94% must be either re-invested in the corporation or be used to purchase government bonds (which the government is not obligated to ever pay back). </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">4. Employers may demand greater output from employees without increasing wages or benefits. </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">5. Large business must either form cartels or join already existing cartels pertaining to whatever industry the business is associated with.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><?: PREFIX = O /><O:P></O:P></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>


<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" ="Msonormal"><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"><FONT face="Courier New" color=#172b50 size=2>6. No business may fire an employee or lay off an employee without the government’s permission. </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: #172b50; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Courier New'"><FONT face="Courier New"><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">Labor: </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">1. Labor unions are illegal. </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">2. Employees may not strike. </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">3. No employee may leave his employer without the employer’s permission. </SPAN></SPAN>4<SPAN ="post1"><SPAN style="mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt">. An employee must pay anywhere from 15 to 35 per cent of his pay in taxes and charitable donations mandated by the government.</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>



Sounds like:





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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε


Posted By: truth of the matter
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2009 at 18:05
this my friends is much like socialism, a stepping stone to communism, but it is what i like to call the more negative "stalin" type of extreme governmental control. the fact the gov't will regulate the markets and economy, is what we call a controlled economy/market. i feel it is better to let the markets decide what the people should produce. the consumer, by his or her purchases should decide the prices and availability,ie..supply and demand. this article i feel is more of something that would fall under more of a "beurocratic collectivism" where it is a top elite that gain money from socialistic idealogy but instead of true socialism where it should benefit the people it only makes the top(gov't-bankers-elite} richer, much like capitalism does. if that helps. but yeah this ideology does not suit the american people... pure garbage

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m.d.h.m.


Posted By: Ikki
Date Posted: 23-Mar-2009 at 19:06
Originally posted by flaja

Government:
1. The government levies heavy taxes. Left, right did too during war times.


2. The government prints money whenever necessary to avoid deficit spending or borrowing. Left, but can be right for example Nixon administration

3. The government subsidizes things like factory construction and maintenance. Left, but can be right for example american agriculture has been subsidize for decades by each government.

4. The government determines what a farm will produce. Left, but totalitarian right governments like nazi Germany or franquist Spain did.

5. The government determines the prices at which a farmer may sell what he produces (the prices are automatically set above what the market would otherwise dictate so farmers have a certain amount of guaranteed income). Left, but righty governments can do it, see the above examples.

6. The government determines what goods and services businesses can produce, how much they will produce and the price at which the produced goods and services will be sold. Extreme left, in the past extreme right too.

7. The government, at the direction of business owners, determines the wages and salaries of all employees. Extreme left, this only happened in USSR.

8. The government provides health insurance, unemployment insurance, disability insurance and a retirement pension to employees. Left, but in Europe rightist governments do too.

9. The government operates an organization that provides low-cost recreational and cultural activities- things like luxury cruise vacations for less than 2 weeks’ pay. Extreme left, this only happened in USSR.

10. The government conscripts labor for public works projects in order to relieve massive, chronic or long-term unemployment. Left, but in time of crisis this have been done by rithist governments like Hoover in the thirties.



Posted By: Young Tatar
Date Posted: 28-Mar-2009 at 11:37
This is a national socialist (Nazist) government plan :D

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"Independence and Freedom are my character."
Mustafa Kemal Atatürk

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Crimean Tatar Independence Movement


Posted By: gcle2003
Date Posted: 30-Mar-2009 at 16:55
Originally posted by truth of the matter

this my friends is much like socialism, a stepping stone to communism, but it is what i like to call the more negative "stalin" type of extreme governmental control. the fact the gov't will regulate the markets and economy, is what we call a controlled economy/market. i feel it is better to let the markets decide what the people should produce.
In which case, it occurs to me somewhat belatedly to point out, all the big US banks would have failed already. Or would fail now if the market wasn't being rigged by Geithner's new plan.
 


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Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 04-Apr-2010 at 14:41
God, what a shame this thread died during the divorce! What a challenge!

I would presume to continue this offering in a seperate site, that would attract some attention by our current active members!

I see the object of the opening post, as a chance to do an itemized check off, of each point, and rate it either upon "right v. left" or "socialism v. fascism", or upon any gage that the reader feels is most necessary to come to some conclusion!

What do you moderators say?

I would suggest that we keep the few prior comments intact!

Regards

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 11-May-2010 at 15:27
Government:
1. The government levies heavy taxes.

ans.- could be either

2. The government prints money whenever necessary to avoid deficit spending or borrowing.

ans.- either

3. The government subsidizes things like factory construction and maintenance.

If you consider Facism as "right", then both! But, similar things are happening today! Left

4. The government determines what a farm will produce.

Both, done today in the USA!

5. The government determines the prices at which a farmer may sell what he produces (the prices are automatically set above what the market would otherwise dictate so farmers have a certain amount of guaranteed income).

Both

6. The government determines what goods and services businesses can produce, how much they will produce and the price at which the produced goods and services will be sold.

happened in USA in WWII Left

7. The government, at the direction of business owners, determines the wages and salaries of all employees.

Tried in WWII by Rooseveldt! Left

8. The government provides health insurance, unemployment insurance, disability insurance and a retirement pension to employees.

Both

9. The government operates an organization that provides low-cost recreational and cultural activities- things like luxury cruise vacations for less than 2 weeks’ pay.

Left

10. The government conscripts labor for public works projects in order to relieve massive, chronic or long-term unemployment.

Again, Rooseveldt in WWII, Left

I think, now I see the point of the above exercise!

The answer is, in one way or another, almost every question asked above can be found to be in effect in one way or another in most European nations and quickly also in the USA!

Since there is very little difference between the extreeme left and right, then all questions can be answered as "both!"

Regards,

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/


Posted By: Mosquito
Date Posted: 11-May-2010 at 18:26
Belive me Opuslola you still cant compare USA with countries that itroduced socialism/national socialism.
 
First of all I must say that the differences between former socialist countries of so called "Warsaw Pact" and Nazi Germany were minimal. The only one I see is that Germans themselves elected their goverment while in countries like Poland it was introduced by the decision of great powers: USSR, USA and GB.
 I have spent my youth living in socialist country where almost every aspect of life was regulated by the goverment so I know what im saying. And affcourse goverment in such coutries is trying to brainwash its citisens using naive and primitive propaganda. To explain what I mean, I will show you some propaganda posters from history of my country in years 1946-1989:
 
 
 
We built the strenght of Poland.
 
 
 
 
 
What have you done to realise plan (production plan in every factory)
 
 
 
We are 3 but we work like we were 12.
 
 
 
Tribute for women working for peace and development of homeland!
 
 
But such socialist countries need allies, to feel that they are in the mainstream, being not outsiders:
 
 
 
Polish-Soviet friendship means peace, independence and happy tomorrow  for our homeland.
 
 
But the enemy is not sleeping, trying to destroy socialist paradise:
 
 
Keep classified informations secret
 
 
 
 
Be careful, enemies of nation are around.
 
 
Once the nation is happy and careful, the goverment must be sure that society ignores informations that are not coming from thr goverment:
 
 
On the poster- skeleton in Nazi helmet shouting : Here is Radio Free Europe
Under painting inscription: Only fool is listening with smile and helping mortal enemies.
 
 
Socialist goverment need also external enemies:
 
Propaganda against enemies can be scary:
 
 
Plauge, diseases from USA
 
 
Propaganda can be funny:
 
 
 
Afroamerican running and shouting "HELP". Under picture inscription : In the USA the negers (sorry for the word but it is translation) have voting rights.
 
 
And propaganda can be agressive:
 
On the top of poster over statue of liberty inscription: Symbols and reality
 
Under picture inscriptions: militarism and rasism.
 
 


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"I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood" - Friedrich Nietzsche


Posted By: opuslola
Date Posted: 11-May-2010 at 20:38
Yes, I do understand! But, my little blood sucking insect, I see the USA heading in the very same direction!

And, since very young and easily manipulated people like TGS, are now in charge, I feel that our formerly "free" nation will soon be under the "boot" of those with which you grew up with?

But, there exists the chance for revolution within every generation?

My best regards! And good blood hunting? No, wait a minute that should be "Good Will Hunting!"

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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/



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