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Why was Britain able to establish an Empire?

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Early Modern & the Imperial Age
Forum Discription: World History from 1500 to the end of WW1
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18392
Printed Date: 27-Apr-2024 at 15:14
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Topic: Why was Britain able to establish an Empire?
Posted By: bluesmaster
Subject: Why was Britain able to establish an Empire?
Date Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 10:07
Hello everybody!

I am doing a paper on the topic stated in the title; "Why was Britain able to establish an Empire?". I've just got back from the library with a whole pile of books on the british empire and i am wondering; what should I be reading into. I have to find 3 theories on this subject. So far i've got; Naval Supremecy (could penetrate foreign markets), The Slave Trade gave them the financial means, and thirdly the growth of Britains manufacturing industry. Now am i going in going in the right direction or is there something i have totally forgotten about?



Replies:
Posted By: pekau
Date Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 10:40
Um... I don't know about slavery. That would be some irony in the  essay, which is not good. Britain abolished slavery, remember?
 
You could talk about introduction of railways and canals in Britain.


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Posted By: New User
Date Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 17:44
Industrial and scientific advances helped.


Posted By: Maharbbal
Date Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 18:17
It depends what you mean by "empire", is it the one started during the 16th century by Elizabeth and that knew its climax right before the American Revolution or is it the empire started by the English East India Company and a few others companies?

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Posted By: New User
Date Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 18:30
Originally posted by Maharbbal

It depends what you mean by "empire", is it the one started during the 16th century by Elizabeth and that knew its climax right before the American Revolution or is it the empire started by the English East India Company and a few others companies?
 
I would imagine that a decent working defintion of British Empire would have to be reached before attempting the question.


Posted By: Decebal
Date Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 18:38
Originally posted by pekau

Um... I don't know about slavery. That would be some irony in the  essay, which is not good. Britain abolished slavery, remember?
 
You could talk about introduction of railways and canals in Britain.
 
Uhh, no... Britain made a lot of money out of the slave trade. It only abolished the slave trade in the early 1800's.
 
A complete analysis of Britain's economic success is found in Braudel's Civilization and Capitalism (3rd volume).


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What is history but a fable agreed upon?
Napoleon Bonaparte

Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.- Mohandas Gandhi



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 08-Mar-2007 at 21:43
Britain started in Piracy, followed with the Slave Trade.
Thanks to the utilities, they could push the scientific and industrial revolutions, which gave them the advantage. And the industrial revolution demanded new markets, which in time pushed once again the drive into colonialism.
 
Causes then are all economics: Piracy, slavery and industrial revolution.


Posted By: New User
Date Posted: 09-Mar-2007 at 15:18
 what were the causes of the Piracy, slavery and industrial revolution?
 
 


Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 09-Mar-2007 at 17:54
I think at the root of the success would be 'public' + 'private' borrowing. Thus providing the ability to fund all the other enterprises. It must be remembered that they were one of the last to join the race of empire building.

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Posted By: Kashmiri
Date Posted: 09-Mar-2007 at 19:16
britian became rich because of india.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09-Mar-2007 at 22:16
because of India and Africa and the Americas.
 
Also by saling opium to the Chineses. England was the largest slave trader and it was also the first drug cartel on the planet.
 
Well, it also had industrial revolution...


Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 09-Mar-2007 at 23:22
 
Another important asset was a very efficient civil / military administration that knew how to use Britain's growing economic and military power (created by industrialization).  This administration was also skilled at long range planning.
 
Another factor in both the British and French colonial empires were the lethal skills of "100,000 men in mustard yellow" (British uniform color).  Though few in numbers, these troops were very experienced in both combat and the geo political aspects of empire building.  Many served overseas their entire careers in the same regiment and were intimately familiar with local conditions.   Of course, they did lose a few battles, but they won far more than they lost.  
 
The use of small numbers of skilled troops also offered another benefit is that it functioned as a "safety valve" for unemployed young men.  The imapact of casualties on the public was reduced because the men were volunteers.      


Posted By: Maharbbal
Date Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 10:06
Just for the sake of it recent research tend to show that the African Empires of both France and England were not beneficial for the state as a whole.

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Posted By: Kapikulu
Date Posted: 10-Mar-2007 at 23:42
Definitely its position is effective as well. It was far away from all the wars and complexities of the Continental Europe, living safely in her huge island with special thanks to her naval supremacy.

-------------
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

A Strange Orhan Veli


Posted By: Penelope
Date Posted: 11-Mar-2007 at 00:54
Well, since Britain was an "island", trade was definately needed, and "sea faring" nations did tend to benefit more than non-"sea farers".


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 11-Mar-2007 at 08:13
Originally posted by New User

 what were the causes of the Piracy, slavery and industrial revolution?
 

 

that would be GREED


Posted By: kasper
Date Posted: 11-Mar-2007 at 14:36
Why would you not include slavery? The empire pre-1807 was fueled by the slave trade.

Here's a picture of the triangle slave trade in the Atlantic.



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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 11-Mar-2007 at 14:38
Yes. The foundations of Britain glory are not in the industrial revolution, like same pretend, but in the triangular slave trade.
 
 
 


Posted By: Maharbbal
Date Posted: 11-Mar-2007 at 15:56
Problem: other nations got into slave slave trade but it is England that started the Industrial Revolution not the others (Netherland, France, Portugal). Why? So triangular trade may have been a necessary condition but certainly not a sufficient one. Then there is another problem: chronology. Quite logically the English American empire happened before not after the appearance of the trade so it cannot explain it. The relationship between slave trade and the Indian side of empire is also very dubious (see Brenner's book on the London Merchants). Hence slave trade is just an element of Britain's power and by no mean THE reason.

I wouldn't say either that greed is a sufficient explaination: were the English the only greedy in the world? Were they the greediest? How do you measure a people greediness?

Other factors may have played:
England was the oldest nation-state in Europe (and island indeed which decresed the importance of the government as a provider of violence).
A rather free society helped as well.
And lets not forget luck, many countries having  known their days of glory but somehow Britain managed to lock in its advantage


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Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 11-Mar-2007 at 16:15
The british never had an empire in a classical sence.

They did alot of "sneaky" stuff tobecome so powerfull as they were.

I have said this and will say it agian The Brittish empire was a trade empire nothing more.

Also they kept there neigbours sadisfied due to the whole "Balance of power" stuff

they only fought battles abroad long way from home and mostly other people did the fighting.

Not conquering but econmicly exploiting people was the goal

thats all


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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 11-Mar-2007 at 20:27
Originally posted by Maharbbal

Problem: other nations got into slave slave trade but it is England that started the Industrial Revolution not the others (Netherland, France, Portugal).
Why? So triangular trade may have been a necessary condition but certainly not a sufficient one.
 
Yes. I agree Indeed. England is the only nation of those that had a Newton and a James Watt. That made the difference. However, the availability of financial resources helped.
 
Originally posted by Maharbbal

Then there is another problem: chronology. Quite logically the English American empire happened before not after the appearance of the trade so it cannot explain it. The relationship between slave trade and the Indian side of empire is also very dubious (see Brenner's book on the London Merchants). Hence slave trade is just an element of Britain's power and by no mean THE reason.
 
Slavery and piracy where the starting engines.

Originally posted by Maharbbal


I wouldn't say either that greed is a sufficient explaination: were the English the only greedy in the world? Were they the greediest? How do you measure a people greediness?
 
No. They weren't the only ones at all. It was an European fashion at those times.

Originally posted by Maharbbal


Other factors may have played:
England was the oldest nation-state in Europe (and island indeed which decresed the importance of the government as a provider of violence).
A rather free society helped as well.
 
It is strange though that such a free-society promoted piracy and slavery for a long time. And that cutting heads of fine ladies at court was part of the British entertainment during those days.
 
Originally posted by Maharbbal


And lets not forget luck, many countries having  known their days of glory but somehow Britain managed to lock in its advantage
 
Yes. They were lucky. No doubt about it.
 
Pinguin
 


Posted By: New User
Date Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 14:35
Not much historical facts here just sort of anti British sweeping statements


Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 16:11
Originally posted by xi_tujue

The british never had an empire in a classical sence.

They did alot of "sneaky" stuff tobecome so powerfull as they were.
I have said this and will say it agian The Brittish empire was a trade empire nothing more.

So the British Empire had the following characteristics....
-Force is used only a last resort.  Instead, economic and political pressures are tried first
When force is needed....   
- Small numbers of experienced  regiments are employed
-They use technology, communications, and mobility to leverage their relatively small numbers
-When possible, they work closely with armed Pro British locals
 
These methods then create a long lasting Empire that economically enriches Britian.  This is not "sneaky".  Rather, it is very efficient,  intelligent and leads to fewer British and fewer colonial casualties.   Contrast this approach to the brutal Imperial  Japanese approach. 
 
 
 


Posted By: pekau
Date Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 16:24
Originally posted by Cryptic

Originally posted by xi_tujue

The british never had an empire in a classical sence.

They did alot of "sneaky" stuff tobecome so powerfull as they were.
I have said this and will say it agian The Brittish empire was a trade empire nothing more.

So the Brtish Empire had the following characteristcs....
-Force is used only a last resort.  Instead, economic and political pressures are tried first
When force is needed....   
- Small numbers of expereinced  regiments are employed
-They use technology, communications, and mobility to leverage their relatively small numbers
-When possible, they work closely with armed Pro British locals
 
These methods then create a long lasting Empire that economically enriches Britian.  This is not "sneaky".  Rather, it is very efficient,  intelligent and leads to fewer British and fewer colonial casualties.   Contrast this approach to the Imperial  Japanese approach. 
 
 
 
 
Very true, Cryptic. Smile


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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 17:01
Originally posted by New User

Not much historical facts here just sort of anti British sweeping statements
 
True, indeed. Something like the Anti-Spanish (Black Legend) statements we see quite often in the English languages sources LOL
 
(That was my point, anyways)


Posted By: Maharbbal
Date Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 19:33
Originally posted by xi_tujue

The british never had an empire in a classical sence.

What is the "classical sense" of Empire?

Originally posted by xi_tujue

They did alot of "sneaky" stuff tobecome so powerfull as they were.

Such as? Besides its sounds a bit too romantic to say that there are sneaky empire building methods and straightforward ones
Originally posted by xi_tujue

I have said this and will say it agian The Brittish empire was a trade empire nothing more.

Once more what is a "trade empire"? What's the "more"? Your case will be difficult to defend in regard with South Africa, America or Nigeria.

Originally posted by xi_tujue

Also they kept there neigbours sadisfied due to the whole "Balance of power" stuff

Well the least you can say is that the Portugese, the Dutch and the French were all but satisfied in regard with the colonial situation. You apparently mistaking the position of England on the European mainland and overseas.

Originally posted by xi_tujue

they only fought battles abroad long way from home and mostly other people did the fighting.

It is not untrue but it was the case of each and every European army overseas.  To an extent in many case (India and the Americas for instance) the English used less native troups than other European powers.

Originally posted by xi_tujue

Not conquering but econmicly exploiting people was the goal

I am not quite sure to get the difference. Once more what about North America, the Carabbeans and South Africa?

Originally posted by xi_tujue

thats all

That's hardly an end... to be continued.


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I am a free donkey!


Posted By: New User
Date Posted: 14-Mar-2007 at 18:16
So if we can agree that trade (including slavery) were major factors in the British Empire .I would suggest we have to look at what made it possible for us to partake so greatly in trade. ie the role of transport, stability of nation, control of shipping routes etc
 
Anyone fancy starting out. How did Britain become such a major sea power?


Posted By: Maharbbal
Date Posted: 14-Mar-2007 at 19:13
@ New user, I think you got it right in the first part of your post but then restricted the question with the old and often debated topic of the naval superiority. Which btw was all but established before the period 1680-1730.

So I propose: what made it possible for the dirty Brits to partake so greatly in trade. What was the role of transport, stability of nation, control of shipping routes?

Exiting!


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I am a free donkey!


Posted By: New User
Date Posted: 14-Mar-2007 at 19:34
I see your point and agree, thanks. A much better proposal with which to answer the thread.
 
Wink
 


Posted By: Kashmiri
Date Posted: 14-Mar-2007 at 19:47
british stole a lot things from india like all the mughal jewels


Posted By: Kapikulu
Date Posted: 14-Mar-2007 at 19:57
Originally posted by Kashmiri

british stole a lot things from india like all the mughal jewels
 
British are famous historical artifact thieves.


-------------
We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;

A Strange Orhan Veli


Posted By: Maharbbal
Date Posted: 14-Mar-2007 at 20:42
Originally posted by Kapikulu

Originally posted by Kashmiri

british stole a lot things from india like all the mughal jewels
 
British are famous historical artifact thieves.


LOL the Mughal jewels were stolen by the pirate captain Kidd from other Englishmen who were protecting the convoy. The parthenon marbles have been put in a museum and the fanstastic collections of the Summer Palace have been locked in the Queen's private collection. No fuel from the economy.

It seems difficult for many to accept that the Brits' success comes from their business skills and not their ruthlessness.


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I am a free donkey!


Posted By: Crusader3943
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2007 at 08:53
Britain was the greatest naval power for a long time.

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Crusader3943


Posted By: Maharbbal
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2007 at 11:07
For the role of slavery in the development of the British economy please see the summary of http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18627 - Eltis and Engerman (2000) .

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Posted By: pekau
Date Posted: 17-Mar-2007 at 12:26
Originally posted by xi_tujue

The british never had an empire in a classical sence.

They did alot of "sneaky" stuff tobecome so powerfull as they were.

I have said this and will say it agian The Brittish empire was a trade empire nothing more.

Also they kept there neigbours sadisfied due to the whole "Balance of power" stuff

they only fought battles abroad long way from home and mostly other people did the fighting.

Not conquering but econmicly exploiting people was the goal

thats all
 
True to some extent. They were invincible in sea warfare, but they met many defeats in land, such as Boars War.


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