Most Disciplined Modern Armed Force
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: Modern Warfare
Forum Discription: Military history and miltary science from the ''Cold War'' era onward.
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10346
Printed Date: 28-Apr-2024 at 20:15
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Most Disciplined Modern Armed Force
Posted By: Sino Defender
Subject: Most Disciplined Modern Armed Force
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 00:51
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feel free to express your thought... ------------- "Whoever messes with the heavenly middle kingdom, no matter how far s/he escapes, s/he is to be slaughtered" |
Replies:
Posted By: Halevi
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 01:24
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no clue, but im interested in seeing how those in the know vote
------------- "Your country ain't your blood. Remember that." -Santino Corelone |
Posted By: mamikon
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 01:32
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The armed force as a whole? or its best units?
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Posted By: Super Goat (^_^)
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 01:48
Isn't this like asking which brand of sult is the sultiest? 
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Posted By: Illuminati
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 01:54
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it's impossible to tell unless they've all been in a war recently. Marching and looking pretty is one thing, how they act under fire is different
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Posted By: ramin
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 01:57
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I don't think there's anyone here who has enough knowledge about all the mentioned choices to be able to pick the best.
------------- "I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon" 
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Posted By: poirot
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 02:14
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Royal Nepalese Forces ------------- AAAAAAAAAA "The crisis of yesterday is the joke of tomorrow.� ~ HG Wells |
Posted By: Sino Defender
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 02:47
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being disciplined and having lots of guts are two different things. being disciplined means having good conduct and good discipline. i've heard that many un soldiers stationed in africa have really poor discipline. they drink, get hookers, fight among themselves. ------------- "Whoever messes with the heavenly middle kingdom, no matter how far s/he escapes, s/he is to be slaughtered" |
Posted By: Sino Defender
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 02:50
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what i mean being discipline here isn't whether you have guts and stand there still when there are bullets flying to you. what i mean being discipline here is having good conducts (e.g. obey orders, do not steal, do not loot, do not harm innocents, do not get hookers) things like that. ------------- "Whoever messes with the heavenly middle kingdom, no matter how far s/he escapes, s/he is to be slaughtered" |
Posted By: o_irengun
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 07:20
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Armies in a war or cold war or in long therm threat situations are more disciplined the other armies.Because of their situation they have to be more serious then other forces. And i think because of their national mentality the far east country armies are more disciplined then other countries. In this fact i vote for the israel armed forces they are still in war situation. At second i wouldd choose the north korean army. |
Posted By: edgewaters
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 07:49
That's the proper description of disciplined. Though being rowdy off-duty isn't necessarily bad depending on the local culture, it's more to do with whether the soldiers can behave with enough decorum that they don't give the impression of being barbarians, so more important is whether or not they can avoid unnecessarily repressing or killing civilians, whether they get along with civilians socially, treat them well and so on. I'd have a hard time picking - it used to be the Commonwealth countries (eg Britain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand) but they seem to have lost alot of that since the 80s or so. Australia and Canada are still fairly disciplined, but, they've definately had some problems and places like Africa have highlighted that (thinking particularly about Somalia). Probably some of the little miliaries like Norway or the Swiss, and maybe also Japan, are the most disciplined right now. I'm really not familiar enough with the military culture of alot of different places to be sure. All I can really say for sure is that here (Canada) we probably once occupied that spot, particularly during WW2 and during our post-war missions to places like Cyprus. But I don't think we do anymore, though we're still above average. |
Posted By: Evrenosgazi
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 12:58
| Turkish army is one of the most diciplined force right now . Because of the Turkish millitarical history and traditions, our army is one of the best. |
Posted By: DukeC
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 14:55
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I voted for IAF for this reason. They've proven their professionalism in combat against the Syrians over Southern Lebanon in the 80s and operations like the destruction of the Iraqi nuclear reactor where the Israelis jets involved masqueraded as an airliner. ------------- |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 14:58
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British Army without a doubt. ------------- |
Posted By: Genghis
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 15:11
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Not really a problem given that they're not in a real army. ------------- Member of IAEA |
Posted By: majkes1
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 15:18
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I agree. I wonder how You check this discipline how You can discuss this. |
Posted By: Sino Defender
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 16:27
actually, they are. un soldiers are military regulars or police special forces sent by different countries. ------------- "Whoever messes with the heavenly middle kingdom, no matter how far s/he escapes, s/he is to be slaughtered" |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 18:23
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Na, that is a bit of a generalisation, the Uruguayians have done a really good job in the DR Congo (IIRC), disarming gangs and stopping them from terrosising villagers and towns people. ------------- |
Posted By: Iranian41ife
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 19:10
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The Marines! ------------- "If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War |
Posted By: Ponce de Leon
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 20:58
If the Marines (the marines are the best prsn you hit it on the dot) but lets put em aside then who would be the most discipline? It would have to go to the Israelis. Fact is they are under-fire all the time, everyone is required to join the military service at a certain age (17 I think but i could be wrong). I also have friends here in the Us (jewish friends) that go to Isreal and go to military camp for a month  . Without a doubt, Israel forces hands down.
--Also many countries imploy Israeli veterans to learn self-defense against terrorism. Especially down in South America, they employ many Israelis in Colombia |
Posted By: Super Goat (^_^)
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 23:39
Ya, those damn palestinians and their rocks, they just never take time to reload. 
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Posted By: Illuminati
Date Posted: 27-Mar-2006 at 23:54
don't forget to add bomb-vests, AK-47's and RPG's to the list  ------------- |
Posted By: edgewaters
Date Posted: 28-Mar-2006 at 01:04
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The IDF, which has fired on Red Cross workers, journalists, and even visting British MPs, is surely out of the running.
In addition: In the early 1970s, the IDF reversed its previous policy and began conscripting all but the most serious offenders among delinquent youth in an attempt both to increase its manpower pool and to provide remedial socialization in the context of military discipline. By 1978 it was clear that the policy was only partially successful. Approximately half the youths (generally the less serious offenders) released from detention to join the IDF had adjusted successfully; the other half had been less successful. Many returned to criminal activity and contributed to growing disciplinary problems within the IDF that included rising drug use among soldiers and thefts and violent crimes within IDF units. Quoted from http://www.country-data.com/cgi-bin/query/r-6854.html In addition, the IDF has had notable troubles with the "refuseniks" as well as other elements: In February [of 2002], it was announced that a whole battalion of the IDF's Golani Brigade had been disbanded due to "severe discipline problems." According to Stuart Cohen's article in the "Jerusalem Post" (7 March), "the troops concerned, who chose to nickname themselves 'Messengers of Satan', apparently indulged in a complete breakdown of discipline. Failure to carry out guard duty was the least of their crimes. Over a protracted period they also subjected junior members of the unit to physical and mental torture; they insulted and abused their officers; and in order to duck operational assignments they deliberately sabotaged military vehicles. The military police personnel who came to investigate their crimes were on one occasion bombarded with eggs and refuse, while other officers were locked out of the base." From http://members.tripod.com/~other_Israel/courtmartials.html |
Posted By: Iranian41ife
Date Posted: 28-Mar-2006 at 18:05
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IDF is not very disciplined at all. they are good soldiers, but they have almost no discipline, they do whatever they want without restraint. ------------- "If they attack Iran, of course I will fight. But I will be fighting to defend Iran... my land. I will not be fighting for the government and the nuclear cause." ~ Hamid, veteran of the Iran Iraq War |
Posted By: Ponce de Leon
Date Posted: 28-Mar-2006 at 21:55
How the hell do you reload a rock? |
Posted By: mamikon
Date Posted: 29-Mar-2006 at 00:11
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special relativity
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Posted By: dirtnap
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2006 at 22:35
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The US military...
Every bit worthy of the code elite... ------------- 
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Posted By: edgewaters
Date Posted: 06-Apr-2006 at 23:51
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Like IDF ... good soldiers ... but no restraint. They have had numerous disciplinary crises lately. Unless all that torture stuff was actually policy ... take your pick, I guess. |
Posted By: dirtnap
Date Posted: 07-Apr-2006 at 22:49
You make this statement as if you think the US military is the only army with issues to deal with... The North Koreans, Russians and the Chinese have issues that are not in front of a camera 24 - 7. So the US is an easy target to criticize... How bold of you... First of all the French and the Germans do not belong on the list at all IMO, PERIOD... -------------
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Posted By: edgewaters
Date Posted: 07-Apr-2006 at 23:49
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No, not really. They don't have to be the only army with issues to be out of the running for most disciplined. Even the Canadian forces have had issues with discipline lately: http://www.dnd.ca/somalia/vol0/v0s12e.htm - http://www.dnd.ca/somalia/vol0/v0s12e.htm Does that put them out of the top spot? Yes ... it does. Germany and France's militaries are good contendors, actually. Can you even find any major disciplinary scandals recently for either of these forces? Cameras have little to do with it, that's just a rather weak excuse. Cameras don't cause discipline issues in a military, they just make them politically costly. Information on disciplinary problems in any modern military is readily available, if you care to look, except perhaps in the case of countries like North Korea (and even then, you can find some information). German military is notably impressive - especially since they have succesfully integrated elements of the former East German military, which had been operating under an entirely different set of political beliefs and had been trained to fight the soldiers they now bear arms with and the commanders they serve. Not to mention that they endured massive cuts during initial integration, and the breakup of their units. Few militaries would be able to achieve such a smooth transition in integrating such a polar opposite, without a great deal of disciplinary problems along the way. |
Posted By: dirtnap
Date Posted: 08-Apr-2006 at 01:18
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You are confusing my point.
These issues within the US military exist and are known, but the overwhelming majority of the armed forces in the US are very disciplined... Just because you do not read of Chinese or North Korean or Russian soldiers having similar issues does not mean it is not occuring especially during conflict... Remember Russian treatment of the Afgans? Remember the North Korean treatment of South Koreans? Remember the Chinese treatment of Taiwan? Only calling out the US is not being reasonable but Biased... -------------
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Posted By: Gharanai
Date Posted: 09-Apr-2006 at 15:01
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I would vote for the Germans. I have seen US and British army act very disciplined while they are at top but once they are counter attacked or shown some resistance then I bet you they are the worst as long as discipline is considered. Where as the Germans deals with the situation very well. I wish there was a choice of Canada too, their army is also not bad along Italians. ------------- 
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Posted By: Gharanai
Date Posted: 09-Apr-2006 at 15:20
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Dear dirtnap, -------------
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[would that be right to call Amerian instead of American!]Posted By: Maljkovic
Date Posted: 10-Apr-2006 at 18:02
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My vote goes to the Swiss guard (army of Vatican). Not only must their soldiers follow strict rules while on duty, but they have rules of conduct for off duty time. They are all hand picked through psycological and physical tests, so there is practically no "rotten apples" among them. Sure, I know you're gonna say "How hard is it to keep a company of men disciplined" but hey, the poll question didn't say BIG modern armed force, now did it?
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Posted By: dirtnap
Date Posted: 10-Apr-2006 at 21:09
I realize I mispelled Afghans but I was in a hurry so I let it slide, thx for being so offended that you color coded it blue(my favorite color) and lectured me about it after my post was defending you against what the Russians did to Afghanistan in the 80's... Russia tried to roll all of you... The US is trying to roll some of you, the threatening ones... Its not the same dude... -------------
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Posted By: Gharanai
Date Posted: 11-Apr-2006 at 14:36
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Wow, first of all glad to hear that you got to know what you didn't at the first place, afterward Dear I would really suggest you that we Afghans have it in our nature that we don't really like to be ordered by foreigners, whether it's in benefit of us or in lose of. -------------
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Posted By: dirtnap
Date Posted: 11-Apr-2006 at 17:40
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I understand your feelings and I hope you respect my points as well. Its your home, I would be frustrated too...
But even you have to admit these renegades are hiding and they have help to do so and that causes more problems and does little to shorten the occupation... -------------
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Posted By: Gharanai
Date Posted: 11-Apr-2006 at 18:39
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Dear dirtnap, Afterward, I never supported those terrorist at all, never ever. But for sure by saying that it doesn't mean that I am not supporting someone who is demanding an end to the invasion, and there is a big difference between terrorists and freedom fighters. I guess if there is no difference then first of all American shall be called a terrorist state as the supported the (freedom fighters) terrorist back in 1980s against the Russians. The taleban movement at first was a pure religious group who wanted an independent, prosperous, and Islamic state nothing else, it was the outsiders who made it look terrouble once they merged in them. We shouldn't forget that the extream super power of today (America) is not able to stop the cultivation of Opium, where as by one single order of Amer-ul-Momenen Mullah Mohammad Omer, the cultivation of opium was stopped all over the country in a single day. -------------
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Posted By: BlackRaven135
Date Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 21:19
| There are certain units within many countries that are very disciplined. So, maybe the question should suggest various units to choose from. For example, the United States (US Marine Corps) a very disciplined outfit. |
Posted By: batu khan
Date Posted: 18-Aug-2006 at 05:25
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Chechens becouse even rich Arabian lords hire them as bodyguards becouse they are the bravest and the best fighters in the world( their militias are better than Spetnaz !!! ). or the Turkish army.becouse they never hurt civilians theyserved in Bosnia Somalia and Afhganistan.they helped the people get used to the culture of the west and of course they are the best country who deals with guerilla warfare ( kurdish terrorists ) ------------- |
Posted By: Desimir
Date Posted: 13-Sep-2006 at 12:35
| I think that the most discipline armies in the world are german during WW2 and soviet during the cold war.I live in Bulgaria and there is a us military base near my city.I assure that these guys are not soldiers at all.Without technologies they sucks,thats way bulgarian forces beat us in every common training |
Posted By: Gundamor
Date Posted: 14-Sep-2006 at 00:20
The U.S. is so bad that the majority of Bulgarian officers go through american trained IMET. I would like to know what base you are talking about. The 3 bases that will be shared by the armed forces are the Novo Selo training range, including the Aytos storage facility, the Bezmer air base and the Graf Ignatievo air base. I hope you know that the U.S. National Guard also uses these and if thats your grounds for anything your sadly mistaken. Air Force is more laid back in any military. What active regular army units have you seen there? After training/fighting with a large portion of the worlds militaries. Disciplined wise the ROK(south Korea) struck me as one of the most disciplined. They were quite structured and there was not alot of straying away from standard customs and courtesies. Germans seemed most laid back. Though this is not to take anything away from their abilities just my opinion and experiences. ------------- "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" |
Posted By: EGETÜRK
Date Posted: 18-Sep-2006 at 13:00
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Turkey of course...
------------- The lands of the of the West may be armored with walls of steel, But I have borders guarded by the mighty chest of a believer... |
Posted By: Dampier
Date Posted: 19-Sep-2006 at 18:54
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Just a question but who is voting for Israel- this being the same Israel who in the recent Lebanon war was stricken by conscientius objectors, refusal to obey orders to advance, who ignored missile raid warnings adn had such trouble?
While their SF and regulars did fine the Reservists were a disaster.
Similarly voting for Japan makes no sense, Japan has not been engaged in a "proper" war since '45 (when they were again actually one of the more undisciplined armies). ------------- 
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Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 20-Sep-2006 at 03:01
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Then let us list out the countries that have been involved in war since then & then poll.
------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Posted By: Hellios
Date Posted: 27-Sep-2006 at 22:07
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Hi all. Some nationalistic confusion here between discipline and superior weaponry. Some countries have more powerful weaponry but the soldiers are slackers (except for some elite groups). Unfortunelty the more free a society is the less discipline there is lol. China disciplines their soldiers to no end, notice the marching throughout this 4 min vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-rgPI5iGBg - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-rgPI5iGBg
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Posted By: Jay.
Date Posted: 01-Oct-2006 at 10:26
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Well said, Hellios. I, also, vote for the Chinese army, and from watching that video, wow. What discipline! ------------- Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava Only Unity Can Save the Serb |
Posted By: Kerimoglu
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 05:42
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I believe it is Chinese two, I've heard they have 3 years of military service but i am not sure in that. ------------- History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow! |
Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 06:21
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The Chinese & Russian marchpast is the best.
------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Posted By: Desimir
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 07:50
First i am talking about soldiers who are trained in Bulgaria.I will say that bulgarian officers are trained in both US and Europe.Now the best bulgarian officers are still those who were trained by soviets. Second i am talking about the base in Novo Selo,which is about 10 km from my city Sliven.I dont know exactly what kind of US forces are here,but there are Abrams tanks.What i saw was one big fat afro-american. ------------- |
Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 08:24
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but there are Abrams tanks.What i saw was one big fat afro-american. Are you sure you are not confused between the two ?  ------------- PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn |
Posted By: Desimir
Date Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 12:07
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And both of them were big and ugly.
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Posted By: Praetorian
Date Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 02:43
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I agree with u on WW 2 about the Germans but the Germans were also the best equipped army in the world at that time! I have to had it the dang GERMANS! THEY TOOK ON THE WORLD!!!
I saw the video it looks like any other army… 1. I say the USA are the best rite now, we have air power like no other! 2. Then I think the EU is second! 3. Then Israel is the third. 4. The Russians the forth. How dos Chinese beat the Germans or the French and some others in the poll? I see China being up there soon but not now and when was the last war the Chinese fought in? Military experience is imported as well. ------------- “Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris” “--If Caesar were alive, you'd be chained to an oar.” "game over!! man game over!!" |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 27-Oct-2006 at 22:02
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I am pretty certain the more disciplinated army of all it's the German. The Prusian army is the best model of all in courage and discipline. In South America the most disciplinated of all is the Chilean, which was trained initially by the Prusians of before WWII.
Once in a year one can see in Chile our army in Prusian style uniform of theirs old teachers.
 Prusian uniforms of the Chilean army
 German hard hats (the model changed in Germany today)
Yes. In Chile we know Germans are the best. And we also know the Chilean army is the best in South America.
http://www.andespacific.com/edicion_70/parada2.html#">
 Goose step (forbidden in Germany)
By the way, Chile has had wars with Spain, Peru and Bolivia, all of them won by Chile.
Pinguin
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Posted By: maqsad
Date Posted: 29-Oct-2006 at 03:09
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If we forget about the quality and sophistication of weapons technology then I am surprised nobody has mentioned North Korea. Firstly these guys have more special ops than any other force in the world. In this world! We all know that special ops are the most well disciplined divisions and NK has more than 100,000 of them and its not a very large country either. Now besides the discipline I assume their special ops have they are also incredibally fanatic and fight to the death. There was some story a while back regarding a spy sub that ran astray off the coast of South Korea and it was close to impossible for the SK's to capture them alive. |
Posted By: Dampier
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 11:17
Common misconception. The best equipped armies of the war were the Western Allies and then the Soviets. The Germans actually usually sufficed on over engineered equipment and old kit. Their real ability was in their leaders and the motivation and experience of their troopers. -------------
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Posted By: Krum
Date Posted: 04-Nov-2006 at 11:25
Most of the german weapons were superior to the weapons of allies.For example tanks,some of the aircrafts,balistic missiles,fire arms,submarines,cannons and etc.The problem was not in german equipment,but lack of resourses. ------------- It is only the dead who have seen the end of war. Plato |
Posted By: Dampier
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 15:07
Only to what I call "wargaming" standard (because they are the most obviously powerful). In the early war the Germans actually had worse tanks than the French (but far superior tactics and strategy). By the end of the war they had been out-engineered by the T-34 and Sherman (resources of course are part of what makes a tank so good. A T-34 or Sherman takes far less resources than a Tiger.). Submarine wise it mattered not a jot. British sonar and Navy was better in the end and won the battle of the Atlantic. The missiles took up a disproportionate amount of resources to what they achieved. Fire arms. Well once again they were either average or over-engineered. The Panzershrek was a Bazooka copy. The PIAT had no German equivalent. The Sten and Grease Gun were much easier to build. The PPS is cheaper, easier and just as effective. Gun wise: the Allies had guns just as good as the 88 (and the Russians totally owned the Germans over artillery)- they just didn't use them (ie. the British never used the Bofors AA in N. Africa despite the fact it was actually thei best AT weapon. Engineering is not really about effectiveness as much as cheapness and efficency in total war. If you want more examples of the Allies and Soviets superiority look at say Hobarts Funnies, the Sherman "Firefly", the Shrturmovik etc. -------------
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Posted By: think
Date Posted: 16-Dec-2006 at 20:39
They got nice uniforms  Just a question, are there any Jews in Chile because I would imagine that they would crack on anything Nazi related. |
Posted By: Athanasios
Date Posted: 23-Jan-2007 at 20:37
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turkish army by far the most disciplined ...since 1365 they recruit the best foreign forces to fight for them ...
...great military tradition(Balkan wars, wwI ,etc. etc.)... ------------- 
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 08:02
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May I ask how Israel and America are recieving so many votes? Neither of these armies is particularly undisciplined, but neither have they demonstrated that they're particularly disciplined either.I would say nations with much smaller militaries are likely to be far more efficient and disciplined.
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Posted By: Kerimoglu
Date Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 08:23
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There is no such theory: The more army is bigger, the less it is disciplined. It is nothing but intuition, if read Sun Tsu. But I agree, that freedom in US influances army negatively. Also, corruption and idea are very big points. Azerbaijan army is very corrupted today, I must be proud with my army, but the reality is very different. It is getting better since new president, but still, there is a corruption which "harasses" the army. ------------- History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow! |
Posted By: Frederick Roger
Date Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 08:50
The Swiss Guard is just the tip of the iceberg.
I think the Swiss are way underrated and no one is really aware of the size and power of their military. And who knows what goes on under inside those mountains?
My guess is that Switzerland could take out all its neighbours, by surprise, and at the same time if they wanted to.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 31-Jan-2007 at 02:10
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Your guess, would be wrong.
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Posted By: Frederick Roger
Date Posted: 31-Jan-2007 at 05:27
Prove me wrong, don't just say it.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 31-Jan-2007 at 05:48
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Simultaneously Switzerland is going to take down the following: 1. Netherlands The Netherlands actually possesses quite a formidable military force for its size. 2. Germany One of the world's most powerful industrial powers, designer of the Leopard II's that Switzerland uses. 3. Belgium 4. Italy 5. Austria 6. Czech Republic 7. Poland 8. Denmark I fail to see how they're going to pull that off. ------------- |
Posted By: Knights
Date Posted: 31-Jan-2007 at 05:53
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I must say that the Swiss could not take out all their neighbours, let alone at the same time. About one and half million Swiss are eligible for military service, though much less would actually take part in the Swiss Armed Forces. Disregarding manpower, though the Swiss do have elite special forces units and the like, they lack a fully professional army, with the SAF being partly militia-based. Let's look at some of Switzerland's nieghbours. Germany. France. Do you really think that Switzerland could match their manpower and overall immense power? No. Switzerland could not take down its neighbours. Note though, I am not underestimating the ability of the Swiss Armed Forces. Rather, they are an exceptionally disciplined force embracing breakthrough tactics and technologies, and incorporating into their defense forces. They are good contenders for 'most efficient military'. - Knights - ------------- |
Posted By: Frederick Roger
Date Posted: 31-Jan-2007 at 07:22
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that The Netherlands, Belgium, Czech Republic, Poland and Denmark shared borders with Switzerland.
 Silly me!Your point has failed. Knights, however, hasn't:
Your point, sir, is extremely correct and valid, for it's practical take on the possiblity of such an event. I believe it was obvious that I was overstating the power of the Swiss on a practicality issue.
However, I still mantain that, in theory, and based on the all-falible ideal that everything goes as planned, the Swiss, as you yourself has put it, with it's "one and half million" reserve force (triple of the French) and being "an exceptionally disciplined force embracing breakthrough tactics and technologies", could, in a secretive, combined and swift action against France and Germany simultaneously, severely cripple both nations, making it easier to jump into Austria and Italy next.
Of course, this is all idealistic rubbish, because in practical terms there would be inner turmoil if such a recruitment ever took place, and so much for the secrecy then!
My rant about the Swiss has achieved it's initial goal of provocking a serious yet well-spirited discussion: what exactly would the results be if attacks came from the small nations we least expected?
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Posted By: Kerimoglu
Date Posted: 31-Jan-2007 at 14:30
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Man, Does swiss has an armed forces? I thought they only got police? ------------- History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow! |
Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 31-Jan-2007 at 14:54
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I'm verry suprised and dissapointed that nobody has mentioned the maroon berets http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bordo_Bereliler - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bordo_Bereliler Btw who voted for Japanese and topic starter  (hahahaha)Japan doesn't have an army ------------- I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage |
Posted By: pekau
Date Posted: 31-Jan-2007 at 20:50
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I think US' elite forces are the most disciplined in the current world. Not entire US force, of course... but elite of elites are from US. (Ex. Delta Force, SEAL, etc.)
------------- http://swagbucks.com/refer/Malachi"> 
Join us. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 13:03
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I don't think so really. The US special forces certainly are good, however they are not quite up to the standards of the SAS, GSG9 or GIGN.
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Posted By: xi_tujue
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 14:15
The Turkish maroon berets won the competition ------------- I rather be a nomadic barbarian than a sedentary savage |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2007 at 22:49
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I'm not going to bother arguing which is better. However, needless to say there are more efficient and disciplined special forces units than the Delta Force.
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Posted By: pekau
Date Posted: 04-Feb-2007 at 16:53
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It would be fun to have all the elite forces around the world play paintball deathmatch. That would be so cool! Maybe we can decide the winner that way...
Just kidding. Just a thought. ------------- http://swagbucks.com/refer/Malachi">
Join us. |
Posted By: Kerimoglu
Date Posted: 05-Feb-2007 at 03:48
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In this case, all the US dudes would win the game ------------- History is a farm. Nations are farmers. What they planted before will show what is going to grow tomorrow! |
Posted By: Batu
Date Posted: 05-Feb-2007 at 10:14
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why are you kidding?that would be a plesure to watch,it would gain more rating then the world cup.
------------- A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari ) |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 07-Feb-2007 at 15:15
i agree that the idf is not particuarly diciplined. but it is not particuarly undiciplined either. the fact israel did not win the war against hisballa has more to blame on inferier strategy and weapons. than on dicipline of soldiers. i know of a incident where a squad of hisballa was captured with full gear as they fell asleep during a patrol. in the Idf this would have never happened.
i dont know if any of you ever did actually fight in a war. but during combat all hell breaks loose. u never realy know what is going on. most of the time the idf high comand did not have a (ground forces) plan of operation. and orders were not always clear from the point of view of regiment comanders. thus i cannot blame troops of disobeying orders as the orders where not always there to be disobeyed.
i dont know what army is the most diciplined in the world. though of i had to guess id say the germans. i met some german officers during service and they seemed nice enough.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09-Feb-2007 at 08:08
Why?
I'm slightly confused by that logic. Although the Germans are very efficient. Does the Vatican count? ------------- |
Posted By: Knights
Date Posted: 09-Feb-2007 at 08:54
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Here is my criteria for what can effect the discipline of an armed force: - Size: The larger the force becomes the harder it is to control and manage in a 100% effective fashion. There will always be the odd rebel or muck-up, and disruption is inevitable regardless of how elite the force is. For example, the German Army may be very good, efficient and powerful, and rather disciplined overall, but this does not account for the entirety of its composition. Similarly, any national armed force is bound to encounter the same effect due to size, and management restrictions within the armed force. - Loyalty: This is a very important factor -in my opinion- in not only determining but also assuring discipline within an entity. Complimentary to the 'size' factor, 100% loyalty and willingness to fulfill every role is not guaranteed as the size of an armed force increases. In addition to this, loyalty also infers ability, efficiency and discipline, generally. - Selection: This is a key aspect that defines the discipline of an armed force. Selection process for some of the most elite units in the world is sometimes more physically and mentally arduous than reality. For example, the selection process of British SAS and Australian SASR Special Forces. The selection process roots out those who are unfit to fulfill their role to full extent, of which discipline plays a part. A regular defence force may only require O-Level or the respective merit in each country, an average degree of fitness and possibly some mental/psychological tests for a first-grade soldier position. Some national armies may require more than this, but nevertheless still cannot guarantee total discipline. However, as the selection process gets harder (both physically and mentally) and the requirements and amount of soldiers to be recruited decreases, you get a lower margin for error. This is why your average US 10th Mountain Division soldier is less skilled/elite and formidable than an SAS trooper. - Fanaticism: Lastly, but less significantly, fanaticism can affect the discipline of an armed force. It is not very major but I thought I would point it out anyway. Fanaticism, for example, religious, can be beneficial because the followers could obey and fulfill the commands of their leader to the death. This is of course, not always the case. Adversely though, fanaticism can cause impetuosity and eagerness, leading to unruly and/or detrimental consequences. A good example of discipline (or lack of in some cases) would be the Orders of the Middle Ages -Templar, Teutonic.etc.- or the Hashashim. My conclusion based on these and less significant criteria is that the smaller and more arduously selected an armed force is, along with the loyalty and willingness within it, almost always determines that the discipline will be very high. From this conclusion here are some contenders for "most disciplined armed force": - Royal Guards. These are the bodyguard or the like, of Imperial/Royal Families in different nations. Each has its unique name, and there are always exceptions. For example, the Hogvatken (Swedish), or English Royal Guard. These troops conform to all the criteria above. - Special Forces/Counter-Terrorists. These are the troops who undergo the most painstaking and burdensome selection process, which in turn would actuate the loyalty and size of the force. They tend to be small, but highly elite (if not the best the modern world has). Examples include the Polish GROM, Australian SASR and the German KSK. - Others? Please specify... - Knights - ------------- |
Posted By: Lotus
Date Posted: 10-Feb-2007 at 13:29
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I6-2NJhnf4">
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I6-2NJhnf4
These A10 pilots seem to be lacking discipline by the bucketload |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 10-Feb-2007 at 14:19
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The GLA man.the GLA.
------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: SearchAndDestroy
Date Posted: 12-Feb-2007 at 14:24
------------- "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey 
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Posted By: Brian J Checco
Date Posted: 24-Feb-2007 at 20:52
| I would discount Americans as being the most disciplined. At least at the Officer training level, a certain amount of 'cowboy' initiative-oriented thinking is included. Besides, the American military is comprised of American citizens, and no one had every claimed that Americans were particularly 'disciplined' people. We all watch too many John Wayne movies as kids. |