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Who won the War of 1812?

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bradcorazon View Drop Down
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  Quote bradcorazon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who won the War of 1812?
    Posted: 01-Mar-2006 at 04:52

I've always gone back and forth on this question.  Sometimes I think the United States was the obvious winner, and other times I think it is the British who clearly won. 

Officially the War of 1812 ended with the Treaty of Ghent (I hope I spelled that right) and "Status Quo Antebellum" was inacted (basically means that both sides took back what they had before the war.) 

Anyways, I just wanted to throw this one out to hear everyone's take on it!  Let the debate begin!

 

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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2006 at 06:11

It was a draw. Pretty much a 0-0 draw at that.

The only point at issue really was the British blockade of Napoleonic Europe and the consequent interference with US shipping.

At sea, the more powerful American frigates had some considerable successes in single-ship engagements with British ones - with the notable exception of the Chesapeake and the Shannon, but obviously couldn't stand up against the British fleet. Off the top of my head I don't think the Americans had any line-of-battle ships at all.

On land (and lake) it was pretty much a stalemate. The US successfully defended New Orleans and Lake Erie ("We have seen the enemy and they are ours") and failed to defend Washington, but the whole thing was just a side-issue to the British who had more important things to worry about.

Once Napoleon fell the whole thing was entirely pointless and everybody agreed to just give up. It's a bit of a pity though that the news didn't reach New Orleans a few days earlier.

 

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  Quote bradcorazon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2006 at 16:55

Good take. 

I wonder how things would have been different had Britain not been so wrapped up in the Napoleonic Wars?????

 

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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2006 at 17:54

If Britain had not been in the Napoleonic War it's doubtful the US would have declared war.

Similar with the purchase of Louisianna and invasion of Florida, they were Napoleonic wars sparked.

I tend to think the winner of the war was neither Britain nor the US it was Canada. Prior to the war the US thought Candians akin to themselves eager to shed Britiash shackles and just waiting a catalyst. They believed the Canadians would rally to the 'liberating' US army as it crossed the border. The original name for the war in the US was the 2nd War of Independence.

What the war did was kill any American pretentions for a northern expansion and showed them they clearly weren't welcome by the locals, thus focussed Americas ambitions westwards. One could say Canada won the war and the Indians lost it.



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  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2006 at 18:13
Originally posted by bradcorazon

Good take. 

I wonder how things would have been different had Britain not been so wrapped up in the Napoleonic Wars?????

 



US would have been demolished...in fact its amazing that Great Britain could hold off Napoleon, where all others have fallen, and draw the US at the same time, (and burn Washington DC....)
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2006 at 18:32

As an anecdotal observation, it can be said that the loser of the War of 1812 was the Federalist "party."  Their virtually unanimous condemnations of Democratic Republican policy that resulted in "Mr. Madison's War" backfired on them.

The popular image of the war was of American victories on Lake Erie, Lake Champlain, at New Orleans, and the success of U.S. navy frigates at sea.  Failures in Canada were forgotten; the bombardment of Baltimore became a national anthem, and Washington was burned.

Still, it was how it was perceived, and how it ended up.  By 1817 the Federalists were destroyed as a political force (except in Massachusetts until the 1820s)  They backed the wrong horse. 

 

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  Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Mar-2006 at 23:00
Who won? No one. Though, I guess if you're going by who benefited more, then the US won. The US wanted the British out of Canada.......that didn't happen. Though, the US also wanted the British to stop harassing and abducting American civilian sailors, and to respect the US as a military power. That definitely happened. So, in that regard, Britian had to bite it's tongue and respect the US as a military power.

Overall, Canada really benefited more than anyone.



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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2006 at 04:39

Britain stopped pressing US sailors before war was declared.

I think this was just a popularist piece of tabloid properganda used to sell it to the public at the time and had little to do with the real reasons.

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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Mar-2006 at 06:01

In The Command of the Ocean, N.A.M.Rodger, the best contemporary naval historian I'm aware of, sums the end of the war up thus:

"The British were happy to get rid of a pointless and costly war. The united States abandoned all her war aims, but at least she had narrowly avoided complete defeat and dismemberment. It remained to construct a myth which might allow Madison's futile and humiliating adventure to be remembered as a glorious national triumph."

The question about what would have happened if Britain hadn't been preoccupied by Napoleon is oretty well answered by what happened after Napoleon's defeat in 1814, when a contingent of Wellington's army was shipped across the Atlantic (leading to the taking of Washington with just 5,000 men) and the navy could also concentrate its attention there, under two very talented commanders, Cockburn and Cochrane.

I'll agree though that Canada could be considered the winner (though it eas never seriously attacked).

 

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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 19:40
Originally posted by bradcorazon

Good take. 

I wonder how things would have been different had Britain not been so wrapped up in the Napoleonic Wars?????

 

The war wouldn't have even occurred then because the blockade of Europe wouldn't have been in effect, and then even if it did, France probably would have stepped in against the British again and it would have looked a lot like it did in actuality.

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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Mar-2006 at 19:42

Originally posted by Paul

Britain stopped pressing US sailors before war was declared.

Only two days before the declaration of war though, word hadn't reached America by the time Congress declared war.

 

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