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MrButlerKing
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Topic: Turkmen more closer to Turkish or Uyghur/Uzbeks? Posted: 08-Jan-2013 at 23:02 |
In terms of physical appearance would Turkmen be mistaken for Turkish or more Uyghurs/Uzbeks? Should Turkmen be considered Caucasoid or Mongoloid/Caucasoid?
17 samples
2 samples : 30% Mongoloid + 70% Caucasoid 2 samples : 27.5% Mongoloid + 72.5% Caucasoid
4 out of 17 = 23% of Turkmen population
------------ 1 sample : 23% Mongoloid + 77% Caucasoid 1 sample : 22% Mongoloid + 78% Caucasoid
2 out of 17 = 11% of Turkmen population
------------ 11 samples : 13 - 18% Mongoloid + 82 - 87% Caucasoid
11 out of 17 = 64.7% of Turkmen population
Edited by MrButlerKing - 08-Jan-2013 at 23:15
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tomb_seeker
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Posted: 27-Nov-2014 at 09:00 |
as i know, usbek and uyghur have very similar roots and the language are also very similar, so turkman looks for me more to turkish. looks from the part of seldjuc and ottoman history.
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MrButlerKing
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Posted: 12-Aug-2015 at 08:31 |
Originally posted by tomb_seeker
as i know, usbek and uyghur have very similar roots and the language are also very similar, so turkman looks for me more to turkish. looks from the part of seldjuc and ottoman history.
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But it would seen I underestimated the Mongoloid admixture of Turkmen and Turkey. The reason for the low Mongoloid admixture in the previous Turkmen study could be explained by the fact that samples came only from the very southern part of Turkmenistan that borders Iran.
It seems that in some part of Turkmenistan they are basically similar to Uzbeks and Uyghurs they all have from 35-58% Mongoloid admixture. And in some part of Turkey the Mongoloid admixture reaches from 12.5% to 22% unlike the region of Turkey such instabul which is historically a greek area but had less Turkic migration hence the reason they have only 2.5% to 15% Mongoloid admixture only.
Edited by MrButlerKing - 12-Aug-2015 at 08:34
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Aeoli
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Posted: 12-Aug-2015 at 09:54 |
Originally posted by MrButlerKing
Originally posted by tomb_seeker
as i know, usbek and uyghur have very similar roots and the language are also very similar, so turkman looks for me more to turkish. looks from the part of seldjuc and ottoman history.
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But it would seen I underestimated the Mongoloid admixture of Turkmen and Turkey. The reason for the low Mongoloid admixture in the previous Turkmen study could be explained by the fact that samples came only from the very southern part of Turkmenistan that borders Iran.
It seems that in some part of Turkmenistan they are basically similar to Uzbeks and Uyghurs they all have from 35-58% Mongoloid admixture. And in some part of Turkey the Mongoloid admixture reaches from 12.5% to 22% unlike the region of Turkey such instabul which is historically a greek area but had less Turkic migration hence the reason they have only 2.5% to 15% Mongoloid admixture only.
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Most of Turkmen are living in Iran border and even Iran part of border are Turkmen too.
Of course some of them can be like Uzbek or Uyghur. Even some small communties can have more mongoloid gene structure then avarenge Uzbek, but not majority of Turkmen.
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MrButlerKing
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Posted: 12-Aug-2015 at 10:33 |
Most of Turkmen are living in Iran border and even Iran part of border are Turkmen too.
Of course some of them can be like Uzbek or Uyghur. Even some small communties can have more mongoloid gene structure then avarenge Uzbek, but not majority of Turkmen.
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Regardless Mongoloid admixture was much higher than I previously though.
It seems interesting to me that Turkmen from Iran and Afghanistan have Mongoloid paternal Y-DNA at 42 -55% while only 14% east Eaurasian maternal mtDNA only but their mtDNA maternal seems to 65% Western Eurasian origin and surprisingly a whooping 22% South Asian origin aswell. Now on paternal even they have 5% haplogroup L and 2.5% H which is South Asian
Haplogroup Q is found in many Siberian Turkic ethnic groups with a frequencies of 50 - 67%.
Don't you think they look a mixture of Mongoloid , Caucasian, South Asian?
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TheAlaniDragonRising
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Posted: 12-Aug-2015 at 12:35 |
Originally posted by MrButlerKing
Haplogroup Q is found in many Siberian Turkic ethnic groups with a frequencies of 50 - 67%.
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Considering the vast array of areas Haplogroup Q covers, what method are you using to define which of those are indeed from the ethnic groups you suggest in the diagram above?
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What a handsome figure of a dragon. No wonder I fall madly in love with the Alani Dragon now, the avatar, it's a gorgeous dragon picture.
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Aeoli
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Posted: 12-Aug-2015 at 14:37 |
Originally posted by MrButlerKing
Regardless Mongoloid admixture was much higher than I previously though. |
Nobody wait that they have similar percent Mongoloid admixture with ordinary European or Turk.
As I said many times in different topic to you, if there is line with Caucausoid and Mongoloid, they are in Caucaus group.
Haplogroup C and O are more clear for being Mongoloid, if you wanna check haplogroups
Race and Haplogroup division is not so clear.
Example Ethyopians are Caucasoud but not have West European haplogroup R1b,
However Many Nigerians are haplogroup R1b
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MrButlerKing
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Posted: 12-Aug-2015 at 15:51 |
Haplogroup Q is only high in the Siberian Mongoloid Turkics and high in the Uralic-Turkic selkup, Kets and in Amerindians. And it reaches such high frequencies where Mongoloid admixture reaches 100%. All the ethnic group with high Q are associated with Mongoloid people. There is no other race with with high Q except for part of Central Asia where people are mixture of Asian and Mongoloid.
Q is only found in North Europe in very low frequencies of 2.5% and some say it was a neolithic contribution or was possibly from the Eskimo-like people. Haplogroup Q in Hungarian 2.5% and is associated with the Turkic expansion. Haplogroup Q in Arabia is possibly from the Seljuks empire where they did expanded to parts of Arabia.
This haplogroup is clearly Mongoloid to the core
What else could explain the high frequencies of haplogroup Q in Turkmen and Mongoloid admixture.
Here are the Chelkan Turks with 67% haplogroup Q and many other Turkic ethnic group have have 30 - 40%.
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MrButlerKing
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Posted: 12-Aug-2015 at 16:02 |
Originally posted by Aeoli
Originally posted by MrButlerKing
Regardless Mongoloid admixture was much higher than I previously though. |
Nobody wait that they have similar percent Mongoloid admixture with ordinary European or Turk.
As I said many times in different topic to you, if there is line with Caucausoid and Mongoloid, they are in Caucaus group.
Haplogroup C and O are more clear for being Mongoloid, if you wanna check haplogroups
Race and Haplogroup division is not so clear.
Example Ethyopians are Caucasoud but not have West European haplogroup R1b,
However Many Nigerians are haplogroup R1b
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Haplogroup Q and N are clearly both Mongoloid. Both reaches 100% in Mongoloid population where caucasian admixture reaches 0%. Haplogroup D in Central Asia is obviously Mongoloid since the the Tibetan and Tibeto-Burmese have 40-50% of D1 and D3.
I never understood why some people consider Ethiopian caucasoid and give them caucasoid-sub race like ethiopid when clearly genetics still shows they are slightly closer to Sub-Saharan than they are to western Eurasian. Turkmen are also far from being authentic Caucasoid when they can be from genetically 1/5 to 1/2 East Asian.
Turkmen genetics
Turkic and Iranian origin[edit]Genetic studies on mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) restriction polymorphism confirmed that Turkmen were characterized by the presence of local Iranian mtDNA lineages, similar to the Eastern Iranian populations, but high male Mongoloid genetic component observed in Turkmens populations with the frequencies of about 20%.[21] This most likely indicates an ancestral combination ofTurkic and Iranian groups that the modern Turkmen have inherited and which appears to correspond to the historical record which indicates that various Iranian tribes existed in the region prior to the migration of Turkic tribes who are believed to have merged with the local population and imparted their language.
MILLION OF PERSIAN SLAVES BROUGHT TO TURKMENISTAN AND UZBEKISTAN
Abolition of slavery[edit]The Russian administration liberated the slaves of the Kazakhs in 1859.[31] However, isolated abductions of Russians or Ukrainians by Kazakhs for the slave markets of Central Asia continued until the Tsars' conquest of Khiva and Bukhara in the 1860s.[32] At major markets in Bukhara, Samarkand, Karakul, Karshi and Charju, slaves consisted mainly of Iranians and Russians, and some Kalmuks; they were brought there by Turkmen, Kazakh and Kyrgyz.[33] A notorious slave market for captured Russian and Persian slaves was centered in the Khanate of Khiva from the 17th to the 19th century.[34] During the first half of the 19th century alone, some one million Persians, as well as an unknown number of Russians, were enslaved and transported to Central Asian khanates.[35][36] When the Russian troops took Khiva in 1873 there were 29,300 Persian slaves, captured by Turkoman raiders.[citation needed] According of Josef Wolff (Report of 1843–1845) the population of the Khanate of Bukhara was 1,200,000, of whom 200,000 were Persian slaves.[37]
By the way the Kuzzar posted a fake graph where he edited proto-Turks is 100% proto-Europoid and that proto-Turks were R1b and R1a. That is bullcrap. The truth is they were Iranic people such as scythians, Pamiris, Bactrians and other Iranic nomad ethnicities.
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Aeoli
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Posted: 13-Aug-2015 at 02:01 |
Originally posted by MrButlerKing
By the way the Kuzzar posted a fake graph where he edited proto-Turks is 100% proto-Europoid and that proto-Turks were R1b and R1a. That is bullcrap. The truth is they were Iranic people such as scythians, Pamiris, Bactrians and other Iranic nomad ethnicities.
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Yes, the original graph says Ancient people in Kazahkestan are Europoid, not ProtoTurks
About Ethyophian, I guess it is about skull shape. That's why people call them Caucasoid
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