Democracy

I think you need to make it clearer what you mean by democracy.

True democracy is tyranny of the majority. It is a worse scourge than a malevolent dictatorship. You can overthrow a dictator. The only way to overthrow a democracy is to become a dictator.

Originally posted by Pytheus Many dictators are actually quite good in their early years. However after many years of power they become more tyranical, paranoid and oppressive. Democracy is simply a dictatorship where the dictator has a short term expiry date, so never gets to much done and doesn't go too bad before out of power.

Democracy is a government where the people make the decisions. The majority doesn't die. It changes, but it doesn't die.

I think what you are talking about is a republic. Two completely different things.

Originally posted by Pytheus No person in any democracy around makes any decision. Politicians act in the interest of the richest few in society.   I think you are not talking about democracy but grassroot democracy, they are quite different.

Grassroots democracy? Democracy literally means "rule by the people." All democracies have their majorities as their rulers. Democracy is democracy is democracy. That is what the word means. A republic is what the founding fathers of these USA established, and an odd one at that. I have not heard the term "grassroots democracy" before.

I don't think oligarchy is the word though. If I remember correctly, an Oligarchy is a monarchy of multiple people (that is if I am remembering correctly). However, modern governments in Europe share some characteristics with democracies, and some with republics, though the election of government officials doesn't mean much anymore in such countries. I think they are a different beast altogether.

Originally posted by Tusi 1) Democracy as a God-sent system- Many people I speak to tend to think of democracy as a system "approved by God". To them, it is the absolute perfect system, and has no flaws. If God was ruling the earth, he would set up a democracy. I think democracy might be the best system available, but it is by no means perfect.

Democracy I feel is an important element in a good system, as a good system works for the good of the people and democracy is the people asking in their best interests, however are the people well educated enough to know their best interests in the long term? Which is a problem in many countries, they are naturally toward autocracy as the masses are blissfully ignorant.
However democracy I do not feel should be some how defined by what is now the predominant parliamentary systems of the West, largely because of what is the higher quality of living seen to be had by those in the West and the absence of political oppression. Although this is somewhat true, by no means should we make them the 'model democracy', as it does contain democratic qualities however it is not as democratic as can be.

Originally posted by Tusi 2) Elections- Elections are a major tenet of democracy. But when I look around me, and speak to people who are going to vote(not just in Iran), it seems that elections are more a popularity contest. Most people don't vote for someone because they think he/she has a good economic policy. They vote because he/she talks well or is more handsome/beautiful. Do elections really turn up the best president consistently?

I agree greatly with this, elections are a huge popularity contest not at all about policy, a namely example of this is Obama, who's election seemed to be a huge hollywood party with all this 'change' and all that drama and hype as if he was God sent, but look now, how much change has he really brought?

Originally posted by Tusi 3) Un-democratic sections of the government- Most members here know that the Iranian government is not 100% democratic. There are parts of the government which are not chosen by people......rather by an "assembly of experts" or a person. Even in Western systems, (for example) certain parts of intelligence agencies are not held accountable for their actions. They are not answerable to the people. Can we have a part democracy?

Such organisations only exists now because truly all of the world really has one type of system, a capitalist system, which is contradictory to equal rights, as capitalist society supports a small group of people who are elevated to their level through the exploitation of the labour of the masses.

Originally posted by Tusi 4) Human rights- Many argue that democracy brings freedom for the people. In actuality, it is not democracy, but rather the Bill of Rights that protects the rights of individuals and gives them freedom. We(Iranians) were the first to have the Bill of Rights, but were not a democracy. In fact, a democracy can take away freedoms of individuals/groups without the Bill of Rights. If the Shia majority of Iranians decided to persecute the Sunni Baloochis, it is not undemocratic because the majority agreed. It is however, against the Bill of Rights. Democracy doesn't bring freedom.

Here you are defining democracy as the system employed now, which isn't the only type of democracy.

Originally posted by Tusi 5) Democracy and Capitalism- There seems to be connection between democracy and capitalism as the more democratic countries are more capitalistic. I've already discussed some problems with capitalism...... could it be that democracy gives birth to a problematic economic system such as capitalism?

I don't quite agree with that, capitalism has out competed all the other systems and abolished them through its manufacturing capability, it abolished the feudal systems of the past and forcing society to elevate a bourgeois class everywhere, however many societies are stubbornly resisting this with reactionary elements, in prime I feel Muslim countries have so, because the raw exploitive nature of capitalism is against the morals and ethics of Islam and for that matter Christianity, however in the West Christianity has been 'abolished' as a government power with the separation of church and state as the power of industry took over, and just as in Muslim countries was Islam going to be replaced by capitalist society (late shah's of Iran's "Westernisation"), however the only reason why Islam still exists as a governmental force is because of the reactionary forces of the last 50 years, of which Islamic reactionarys are only a small force, more powerful were the so called 'Communists' who too were abolished by the Bourgeois industrial power. Capitalism is not connected with democracy, it is merely everywhere as this is the bourgeois century.
The only real connection with the 'democracy' you were talking about and 'capitalism' is that they are both ideas propagated by the West.

Also the in places where the democracy you are speaking of exist, they are in fact less capitalist than places without. As that democracy you spoke of is really modern reactionary socialism in the form of unions, committees, minimal wage,social welfare, freedom of speech, 'equality' etc influenced by socialism and intensified by the surge of "Communism". However the ideas are in fact contradictory to capitalist exploitation and so have undermined it. Whilst in places where such ideas do not exist capitalism is far worse; e.g. PRC so called 'Communist' where one might think such socialist ideas should be more prevalent, it is not so, in PRC unions and committees is nothing more than bureaucracy and mean very little to stand for worker's wages, I will not go into why it is so as it is a different matter, and in places like India where the democracy you speak of does not exist ie. reactionary socialism. Labour is openly exploited in forms of child labour, harsh work conditions that would be illegal in the West, both these places also have huge gaps between rich and poor forming eventually two classes that is: bourgeois and prolertariat. Now some would argue this is just poverty, now isn't it ironic that these to impoverished countries just also happen to be two of the largest economic powers in the world? In truth these two countries show a lot more clearly the symptoms of capitalism (largest gap of rich and poor, labour exploitation etc) than the Western world.

Originally posted by Tusi 6) Control- Sometimes, it seems that democracy is another tool to control the minds of the people..... to make them feel as if they have control of their destiny. Seeing how the pointless debates on TV between the four candidates has made most Iranians want to vote...... I wonder if it's a control mechanism. Another control mechanism is religion.

Indeed the democracy you speak of that is reactionary socialism is a measure used by the bourgeois class to calm the exploited, to make them feel alright, and most importantly sustain the mere existence of these people for their exploitation, it is like somewhat like the religious institutions of feudal society, and has no doubt took its place.

However worry yourself not, everyday we are progressing forward to a more perfect society of true democracy, and equality free of exploitation. It will happen and there is nothing any individual or group regardless of intellect or influence can prevent

for those that would like to see how their respective countries rate, this is an  interesting link:

Iran is a theocracy and scam of "democracy" is just maintained to assuage the populace. 

Edited by cavalry4ever - 07-Aug-2009 at 09:03